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Muslim family of 13 convert to Hinduism to pressure police after murder

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 18:24
آج امت کا حال یہ ہے کہ کوئئ بھی فرد یا جماعت اس آیت پر ایک امتی کو عمل کرا دے اسکو آج کا ولی کہا جا سکتا ہے

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ اتَّقُواْ اللّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إِلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 18:44
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I know abour 5 people who have done Irtidad before my eyes in Toronto. Secular education is one of the main causes. Social media and this halalizing of digital imagery gave the green light for muslims to go on it and use youtube etc. to destroy their imaan.

I teach in a boarding Madrisah. I try my best to teach the kids totally against Social media and wasting their time watching videos. Allhumdulilah so many leave instagram etc.

It is the power of the "digital media" that is being used the most to destroy Imaan.
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 20:08
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Yes that may be true in some cases, but we also have cases of non Muslims who learnt about Islam and researched Islam online, including watching lectures on YouTube , and then accepting Islam. The first Muslims they meet is when they go to the masjid and take shahada.

I have come across some of them on social media. Masha Allah they are very inspiring.

If I recall correctly, one case involved a person who lived in a hospital and could hardly move, and he had special equipment to allow him to browse the internet. His roomate was a muslim. He listened to many of Nouman Ali Khan lectures and memorized some surahs.
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 20:17
I know of a brother who was invited to deliver one single lecture on Islam as part of a course at university. One individual present was motivated to research Islam, which he did and then accepted Islam. Masha Allah the brother is practicing Islam.
The brother that delivered the lecture isn't an alim, nor is he involved in tasawuf or tabligh, so some people might thing he is on the modernist side and wasting time in trivial pursuits, whereas at least one person accepted Islam through his endeavours.

What you said about some Muslims leaving islam at university is true, but Many muslims also develop a real zeal, passion and interest in their deen Islam at university.
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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 20:43
I've come across personally several people converting through love marriages. I'm sure others will have too. If we add up numbers it will be huge. Can we now use zina as a tool to attract converts? It's a genuine need isn't it especially with all the irtidad going on.

It's a fact that there's a million times more harmful stuff on social media than the good. Even the villages have access to social media nowadays. This avalanche of irtidad is not surprising then. But let's just focus on the minority of converts.

Music could also a powerful tool for dawah and I'm noticing a growing ikhtilaf around the world on this too. Shaikh Qardawi for example, who is attested to by none other than Mufti Taqi to be one of the great scholars of today, says you can use music. There are other prominent and well-accepted scholars too who say something similar. A lot of youth are attracted to music. Shall we start using music too? I'm sure we'll get a number of converts through musical dawah too, if many already haven't been pulled in by the many Islamic concerts popping up everywhere.

You get the point. It's a very slippery slope. Let's just go back to the original teachings of the Deen and leave the results to Allah.
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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 20:47

bint e aisha wrote:
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Dead simple answer.

India is westernising rapidly, particularly in the professional fields. I have worked with both Indian and Pakistan professionals and the terminologies used are far apart. Indians in research fields are much closely aligned to the West then Pakistan. Due to Westernisation, Muslim women are entering the job market where they traditionally did not.

Indian Ulama have little to no understanding of IT and some are actively against technology and I mean this. Indian Darul-ulooms are the worst when it comes to IT. On the other hand Indians are one of most Tech savvy and IT-literate in the world. In a country where people are being encouraged to use mobile apps to pay for Potatoes, Ulama are saying to stay away from (digital) pictures and Social Media and it is DISLIKED for women to go to the Mosque…What do you think is likely to happen to a young woman’s mind when she encounters these situations? Watch some Indian Media channels and listen to Muslim women speak and how they disparage Ulama and Islam, the anger is palpable and real.

Indian Islamic Institutions are in 1865 while Indian Muslims are in 2018. Do Indian Ulama honestly think that Indian Muslims will shun digital photography, give up on Social Media, just shut up and go away?

When women emerge, they change rapidly and change the course of society. Interracial marriages started with White women opting to have relationships with coloured men because it was novel and exotic. The Christian (right) issued decrees, beat them, tortured them so white women desired to be with coloured men (even more)…It became cool and then it became normal….White Men despite all the power, influence, laws COULD NOT change that behaviour.

What chance have Indian Muslim (Ulama) with no power and influence got by issuing Fatwaas that Social Media is Haram?

Our Sisters have phones, they have Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp and every other App and they are SAVVY enough to hide it from their fathers, brothers and everybody else. I was 16 once and do you think our generation (girls included) DID NOT how to hide things from our parents? 

The more we push Muslim women into corners (going to Masjid is disliked etc) the more you make the situation worse. The solution (as I was saying over 10 years ago) is to provide Sunnah compliant solutions for Sisters OTHERWISE we will lose generations and very rapidly.

I hardly know any girls under the age of 20 who merely sit at home, have no emails, no access to technology and don’t emerge.

It’s fine to issue Fatwaas that women SHOULD NOT emerge from homes except in emergencies but many WOMEN actually do this?

The solution is to PROVIDE solutions to people and not to give Fatwa. Mufti Shafi Usmani (RA) writes that Ulama SHOULD never give a Fatwa without providing an alternative.  I am paraphrasing it but the actual quote is remarkably close.

If our Ulama are going to say going to Masjid is disliked THEN have such professionally operated Islamic institutions at local grassroots levels that women are surrounded by other knowledgeable Sunnah following Sisters and there is no need to go to the Masjid. IF I had a daughter who was around 20 WHERE are the Deobandi Women whom I can refer her to?

  1. She cannot go to the Masjid.
  2. She cannot emerge from Home.

What is a girl born and raised in the West supposed to do at 20 with both of these conditions? So you see what is happening in most Deobandi families. The Deobandees listen to the Ulama and IGNORE THEM and send their daughters to colleges/universities anyway...

These girls are outdoors anyway but they still wish to follow Islam so they turn to "Salafi" or "Salafi-lite" sources because that is what they mostly have.

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 21:13
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First of all all love marriages don't involve haram. I guess it depends on what you mean by love marriage.

Now did you just compare zina to YouTube and Men going to university?
Yes university environment isn't ideal for a woman. As far as I know men are allowed to go as they need to find work. So that can't be compare to zina.

YouTube isn't considered haram in and of itself, unless you hold the view that videos are haram, which is subject to debate. So zina cannot be compared to YouTube.

And yes the majority consider music to.be haram, So music cannot be compared to watching an islamic video or a man going to university.

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 21:17
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I work in IT through out the world. Sorry to tell you but Indians are not at all Tech Savy nor are they masters at IT. They ruin the market by asking for $20 a hour for a job that should be paid $50 to $60 an hour. This is all over the world. Call an Indian IT center and find out for you self. Now you are equating and giving importance to knowing IT over Ilm of Shariat in a indirect manner.

That is a joke. Any one can learn to use a smart phone etc. This is not a middle age war where they say computers and smartphones are haram. We are against the usage of Social Media as a whole because it is nothing but corruption. Even the non muslims realize this. Allah Ta'ala Guides everyone when they actively search for it. Why aren't the men of the household learned enough to teach the wife Books like Behsti Zewar so that the daughters can be taught about Islam. Stop making excuses. Just admit weakness. I always do. The solutions are there it is just people consider them "boring". They rather party in a sister Halaqah.
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 21:39
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The Deobandees listen to the Ulama and IGNORE THEM and send their daughters to colleges/universities anyway...


Give the Deobandis some credit, I know many of them that listen to the Ulama and fight hard to prevent other women from steeping foot in the masjid, but happily allow their family to go university and work as professionals. So at least they are obeying the ulama when it comes to the masjid.
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2018 21:40
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2018 00:33
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2018 00:39
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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No one physically stops these women. Why are you getting so worked up.
They are learning if they want to. My family personally knows of women who studied in the UK became Alimas and [ADMIN EDIT: behave completely contrary]

Hidaya is with Allah Ta'ala and in following the Shariah. Stop trying to make yourself feel important by commenting on this forum.
Go increase your connection with Allah Ta'ala,worry about you own family and make duaa in Tahajjud for the Ummah. Writing on this forum will do what? You will always find people that agree and disagree Mr Muadh.
I pray Allah Ta'ala use you and your family for deen.
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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2018 04:58
What is solution for irtidad in India?

Practical solutions please!!!

Haan, when problem or disease itself is not known to us, then how can we expect solutions.

So let us start with diagnosis first..........
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2018 05:42
I have collected a few diagnosis reports here from this thread.

1. sisters are not coming to masjid.
Only a practicing sister visits masjid, if she is practicing girl then why irtidad.
2. Studying in colleges.
How to shield imaan of sisters in co-ed (boys and girls mixed) colleges. When boys are around, then, even if it is islamic institution, or a you have a 2 hour religious class by best speaker will not help. Elsewhere, How was this solved.

3. Jobs
You have to interact with men, Fanatic non-muslim organisations are sponsoring and sending attractive men to lure practicing muslim women. Trapped!!!!!!!!!! Should we teach them on how not to get trapped. Or let men only of earn for the family. While arranging marriages Bridegroom family must not insist on sending girl to job. To attract good boys, Many families send daughters to job (if they are poor or girl is not good looking) If the message goes that job is discouraged for girls, surely they will stop.

4. hatred towards islam
These families live in isolation from muslims, they dislike or hate muslim neighborhood. "We won't disturb you you don't disturb us". Such weak families are vulnerable to irtidad.

5. Expensive marriage demands by muslim boys pushes girls towards non-muslims
Even a practicing muslim boy family says "let us limit islam to prayers". Marriages must be made simple. Nothing must be demanded from girl's family. But; Who will do this.

6. Universal brotherhood.
The basic problem with ummah is, universal brotherhood is missing. When we feel the pain of others, we will act accordingly, my daughter is Rabia Basri, I have no concern for other girls.

7. Use of Social media.
There is a saying "You tell me who are your friends, I will tell you who you are". In colleges, jobs, majority is non practicing. Then what do they discuss, surely not Islam; Then... movies, "you watch hirtik's dance, VOW!!!!!!" images, dirty stories etc. And social media is one click solution.
8. What is shown on TV.
Will that not have affect on character of a small girl. It gets embedded even at age of 3 or 4.

The list is big.

Sorry, looks boring.....
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2018 08:51
Brothers who want ladies in masjid, my experience for them.

In one college campus, boys and girls staying in hostel of a big college campus had gathered together in basement of a masjid for religious talk followed by discussion, dinner etc. No elder to monitor them. Young boys and girls mixing at late night. Do they really discuss islam. They were about 100 in number.

Giving irtidad of character (akhlaq and muashirath) an islamic color.
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