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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 10:53

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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This is why we shouldn't hero worship. Things such as these may shake the iman or trust of the awam.

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 13:24

These things happen when "both" sides act against the Islamic teachings.

I know Madaaris in London who won't even have a child in the office unless there's a second adult there. If there's no second adult, the door is wide open and has security cameras too. This is to ensure there's no space for even doubt.

No one seems to put any blame on the victims but many times they are the cause. The crime is obviously bigger than the cause but the cause should not be completely dismissed.

In many events like this, no one knows the full truth so I don't recommend too much discussion on this except for the acknowledgement of how it's completely misrepresentative of Islam, scholars and leaders (Imams)

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 14:20

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I disagree, where children are abused under circumstances of trust, or even those that are abused or are vulnerable, I find it shocking that such victims are to blame for what happens to them.

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 14:45

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No one blames the victim because they are the victim. Often women/children from the Sub-Indian continent are forced initially then blackmailed. Because they are dependent on men/family (who should be the strong backbone of society but are comparable to sheep) they continue to suffer (eventually some may even become used to it). It may be noted here that the ruling is that death is preferable to avoid rape whereas to avoid death from hunger eating enough haram to save ones life is necessary. But the question is that have we supported our women/children to this level of iman? Do they trust us to support them during these situations? These women often wear full parda but due to necessity are put in situations where they are taken advantage of; is this their fault? Na-baalighs in the light of shariah are masum; is it their fault? In fact "no-one blames the victim" is wrong; everyone blames the victim which is why they are unable to report or get out of this cycle because their communities blame and view them in contempt. Their husbands will divorce them. It gets pushed under the carpet. They live with this and feel ashamed for the rest of their lives. Allah swt has sent hijab for the women but commanded the men to lower their gaze. In fact why don't these rapists go to those women who have made it their choice to do zina? Why do they resort to rape?

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 20:02

Taalibah wrote:

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I think the order of my paragraphs was not thought through. the children was an example on how to ensure there's no room for doubt, the partial blame was for women who allow isolation as a job, khaadimah or otherwise.

no one in their right mind would blame a child at the slightest. would be foolish to think so

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 21:13

Yasin wrote:

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Will have to agree to disagree on this one, no matter what circumstance, no woman should be violated, abused or hurt, whether it's by a close relative, family member, or a work colleague.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 21:26

Well if we are speaking of female adult victims, I think they can very easily be manipulated into a situation, were they can be exploited and abused...! Having looked at various religious cults were such abuse has taken place, you will mostly have a charismatic individual or leader who is highly respected by his community of followers, who will take advantage of his position..usually knowing that even if he is caught no one will believe his victim and will blame the victim as a liar.

As for victims allowing themselves to be put into isolation, Professor Robert Cialdini wrote a book in the 1980's called 'Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion' This book remains a bestseller to this day and is very popular with those involved in the fields of Advertising and Marketing/ sales . In the book amongst other things he looked at various studies carried out by behavioral scientists, that is studies were people are put in to certain situations to see how they respond to each particular situation.

In his book he mentions something called the 'Law of Social Proof' what the 'Law of Social Proof' showed was that people will go along with a certain behavior because they see everyone else around them going along with it.

For example an individual might intially find it odd that a religious individual, is spending time in isolation with someone of the opposite gender, but because their colleagues and everyone else around them, does not find this behaviour odd and is accepting of
it, this creates 'Social Proof' that their is nothing wrong with this behaviour rather the problem is with their own interpretation of the ruling.... after all every one else could not be wrong, especially since the people around them are far more pious and learned and the potential victim will rationalise that if 'Hazrat jee' is engaging in such behaviour then he has a far better understanding of the deen then I do, so my interpretation must have been wrong, and I must refrain from thinking ill of the pious...! They will only realise that their intial reservations were correct once they fall victim to the abuse...... Sexual predators can be masters at manipulating the behaviour of their victims, both before and after the abuse.

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2015 21:35

byellow200 wrote:

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Taalibah wrote:

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I'm gonna have to put this in Muadh's classic bullet points:

1. No one said it's okay that a "woman should be violated, abused or hurt, whether it's by a close relative, family member, or a work colleague" so I don't see your point to be honest.

2. "These women often wear full parda but due to necessity are put in situations where they are taken advantage of; is this their fault?"

Yasin wrote:

These things happen when "both" sides act against the Islamic teachings. [/quote]

So if there's any circumstance is valid enough to act against the Islamic teachings and Sharee'ah then by all means you can consider your point valid.

[quote="byellow200"]In fact "no-one blames the victim" is wrong; everyone blames the victim which is why they are unable to report or get out of this cycle because their communities blame and view them in contempt.

Jazakallah I agree with this.

3. I repeat: "The crime is obviously bigger than the cause but the cause should not be completely dismissed." - Efforts should be made to increase Islamic methods and teachings. You posted a top rated here but still seem to post against those teachings.

byellow200 wrote:

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I guess anyone who has personally been hurt or know a victim of such cases will see my comments as backwards or that I approve of such actions. Otherwise those who tend to realise the importance of ground rules and implementing Shar'ee freedoms will clearly understand my point. Allahu A'lam

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2015 10:27

byellow200 wrote:

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The problem is to elvate Ulama to the level of divinity. Lust, sin is human nature and by studying at a Darul-uloom you don't get weekly injections to be immune from sin.

The protection from sin is Taqwa and an Alim or laymen can have it equally.

It is no surprise that an Alim or Shaykh does these things although I do admit that Hazrat-worshippers get surprised and their Eemaan weakens (so its unfortunate from that perspective).

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2015 14:09

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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السلام عليكم

Lets remind ourselves about the Story of the Monk Barsisa mentioned in the Quran. He was a monk who spent his time alone worshiping Allah Taala, and in some narrations its said he did not commit a single Sin for 40 years. This Monk was misled by shaytaan to commit zina and eventually kufr and died as a disbeliever. May Allah Taala protect us such fitna. ameen. So its obvious there no guarantee whatever be a persons 'current state.'

The Mufti saheb is question may be innocent or guilty, Allah knows best. The circumstance do point to some sort of foul play, but such incidents , even though unfortunate, shouldn't have too much an effect on us. Especially on our Deen.

We should have in mind, these are times of Fitna. So even more bizarre and shocking stuff are in store. Be prepared bi idhinillah.

Wasalaam.

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2015 14:46

I know a local Mawlana who gets furious if let alone with a child, wether boy or girl.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 26th March 2015 16:04

True Life wrote:

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The same is reported by Hazrat Maulana Thanvi r.a. He would make sure that his gate / door is always closed. Once an Amrad came away while he was alone, and he got upset.

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