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People of Bangladesh: Time to reflect!

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 10:45

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3832_10-03-2015/people-...

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

As I have written previously, my father served in Bangladesh for many years. Many of our relatives married women from Bangladesh while serving there and speak the language fluently.

My father wasn’t in the military but a civilian.

Growing up, my older Brothers and Sisters have memories of Dhaka (and praying for rain for the Schools to shut down) so they can play with the other kids in the street while skipping School.

My interaction apart from (relatives) with people of Bangladesh is actually outside of Pakistan and it has been terrible. I (as a Pakistani) have been subjected to taunts, abuse, sarcasm and originally I thought that this was a problem confined to older generation.

Now, I am beginning to reflect on the matter (deeply) and I realise that this attitude is prevalent even amongst younger generation who are born in USA, UK and other lands and actually have little knowledge of their country or language.

I was in Makkah and we went to Dinner at a Bengali Restaurant with 3 other Brothers. The waiter spoke no English, Arabic, Urdu so we asked the (British) Bengali Brother to convey what we wanted to order and he was unable to communicate (in Bengali). We somehow managed to order, a little later the Brother explained that he is not fluent in Bengali and hasn’t really visited there. 30 minutes later the same Brother got into a heated argument with a (Pakistani) Brother and became an expert on the atrocities committed by Pakistani Army in 1971.  The (Pakistani) Brother said something about Pakistan Army and the conversation turned very nasty. The (Pakistani) Brother repeated kept saying that I know nothing about 1971 but whoever killed or committed atrocities against Muslims should be punished accordingly, there is no defence for it.

On my last day in Saudi Arabia while packing, I ran out of rope late at night. I drove through town and found a person at the side of the street selling rope. After purchasing the rope the guy asked me my Nationality (I said Pakistan) so he replied, “All Praise be to Allah (SWT) who delivered us from your oppression”. I asked him as to when he was born and he replied (1977 or 1979), I gave him 10 Riyals as a gift and told him to enjoy his freedom but remember that I had nothing to do with him or his freedom!

In UK where there is a large contingent of Brothers from Bangladesh there are definitely undertones and currents of resentment towards Pakistanees, the older generation (actually tell you) while it simmers and comes to the surface (occasionally) for the younger generation based on the testimony of their “uncles & aunties”. Same in USA, I know a Pakistani brother who prayed in a Bangali Masjid for months (lead Salah) and the minute they found out his (Nationality and Job in Pakistan) he was denied food (deliberately) and given a cold shoulder (until today).

Yesterday (9th of March 2015) Bangladesh knocked England out of the Cricket World cup, during the victory speech Bangladesh Captain Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (Bron 1983) dedicated their victory to the “Freedom Fighters of Bangladesh”.

Today, the people of Bangladesh are demanding for a “parody twitter Account” to be shut down and sending filthy, abusive messages to an obvious “troll”.

For majority of Pakistanees (today) these matters bemuse us, they are neither offensive nor insulting but bewildering. You got your freedom, you got your country, you got your constitution if you were wronged seek redress via United Nations or International Court etc.

There isn’t a single Pakistani who defends, approves or gloats in atrocities (actual or perceived) on 1971 but it’s time to move on. We are (Muslims) and that should be the first basis of our interaction.

Good on you for dumping England, enjoy it. :P
 

May Allah (SWT) give you the best of success in this world and the next (Ameen).
 

Me (personally), I don’t really care much for Nationalism.

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3305_17-04-2013/the-ind...

 

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 13:11
"There isn’t a single Pakistani who defends, approves or gloats in atrocities (actual or perceived) on 1971"

Neither Pakistani nor Bangladeshi, but I know that ^^^ is definitely not true. Many of my Pakistani friends have joked about it. Most of them will take serious offense if you criticize the Pakistani Army.

Also, my experiences with young Bangladeshis are the total opposite of yours.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 13:16

kanzoorbhai wrote:
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  1. Praising Pakistan Army
  2. Praising (actual or perceived) rape or oppression of Pakistan Army to Bangladeshi civilians

Are 2 separate matters.

I have NOT found any Pakistani who does 2 but if you say that you have found some who do 2 then they are MORONS!

Yesterday's speech in Public is an example of Bangladeshi emotions in a match between Bangladesh vs England.

And please understand that I am neither defending nor praising nor commenting on Pakistan, this isn't a Pakistan issue (to be honest).

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 13:39

kanzoorbhai wrote:
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Also something comes to mind.

I was speaking to a Pakistani Army Officer 3 months ago who started his Career in 1966 (or 1968 can't remember)  in Dhaka as a Second-Lieutenant; his job was to be Guard at Shaykh Mujeebur-Rahman’s house.

Young Pashtun Officer, first posting. He said that the family often used to send him food at the Gates and Shaykh Hasina used to bring it over so they used to chat sometimes. Rest of the days were spent going to Movies (in Dhaka) or being at the Dhaka club.

He said that Pakisatnees used to treat Bengalis with suspicion and the Banglaees used to have nothing but utter contempt and hatred for Pakistan. He said remembered being in the club one time and a famous (rich) Bengali rich lady was asked about her daughters and told that there were so many handsome young Officers so why doesn’t she marry her daughter to them. She replied, “I would rather give my daughter to a DOG than a Pakistani”

He said this was way before 1971 and her response still rings in his ears (2014); he just ignored it and went to a movie or something but knew that Bangladesh won’t be part of Pakistan.

He said ofcourse we were outsiders. I was Pashtun, I joined Army and then sent to Bangladesh; I didn’t know the culture, the language, the people, I visibly looked different so I could perceive what this will become (and did become a few years later).

He said I had no bone to pick with Bangalees or anyone but the situation became so politically charged that we became a symbol of hatred.

No debate wanted but perspective of a young Pakistani (Pushtun) who joined the Army and then ended up in Bangaldesh.

In UK & USA there are many debates in Masajid over Urdu and revolts etc because Urdu is perceived as an attack on Bangladesh and its identity.

Whatever happened in 1971 happened; its time to MOVE ON; that's what I am saying....

I am not saying to forget it, I am saying to take it to UN or International Criminal Court or whatever but it has nothing to do with me or my generation.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 13:52
السلام عليكم

Some facts:

1. Before Bangladesh achieved test status in cricket, I guess 50% cricket lovers were Pakistan supporters. I remember once in an international tournament in Dhaka two girls were carrying a placard- "Marry me Afridi"!

2. Still now whenever there is Pakistan's match, a large amount people get their eyes stuck on the TV screen.

3. Pakistani Tablighee Jamaats are highly revered by common people.

Reasons why you experienced taunts, abuse etc:

1. We have been taught by our elementary textbooks that we were oppressed by West Pakistan, they martyred protesters who were demanding Bengali as their state language, they refused to hand over power to the elected person, their army invaded us, killed "3 millions", raped "2 hundred thousands" women etc. Also, India appeared as the saviour, trained and armed freedom fighters, sheltered refugees etc.

2. Hating Pakistan is the part and parcel of "patriotism".

3. Communists jumped on the bandwagon and elevated these points on divine level.

4. It's blasphemy to speak otherwise.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 13:54
I also don't want a debate, so I'm hesitant in replying...

Anecdotes and stories of Bangladeshi hatred for Pakistanis and Pakistani hatred for Bangladeshis can be shot back and forth...

I just find it strange that you can pass it all off with "take it to the UN..." and that you're picking on Bangladeshis for their hatred of Pakistanis but have nothing to say about Pakistani hatred of Bangladeshis.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 13:57
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 14:05

kanzoorbhai wrote:
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In 4 decades, I have NOT FOUND a single Pakistani who praises, gloats rape/suffering of any Bangladeshi civilian at the hands of Pakistan Army. Based on your experience (as you say that such people exist) I believe you and say that such people are ANIMALS and CONDEMEND.

All I am saying is that praising Pakistan Army is not the same as parising their rape/atrocity/torture against Bangladeshi civialians and Yes I am (honestly) saying it that it should be submitted to UN for war crimes and the perpetrators duly punished.

Any rape, torture, oppression is despicable and heinous. I DO NOT know any Pakistani who backs, supports that with anyone at all and if such ANIMALS exist than they are not worthy to be called humans let alone Muslims.

All I am saying is that it has NOTHING to do with me or present generation. 99.99% Pakistanees have neither ever been to Bangladesh nor have any experience of them (whatsoever). If I didn’t live in USA/UK or worked in the Middle-East I wouldn’t have either but I can assure you that nobody hates them (as it is clearly perceived) including serving and Retired Army Officers.

Me (or any other Pakistani) most certainly has no hate for people of Bangladesh. Bangladesh Captain Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (Bron 1983) dedicating their victory to the “Freedom Fighters of Bangladesh” in Bangladesh/England match clearly shows that there are issues in that society which need to be discussed.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 14:42
We can't see eye to eye because my experiences with Pakistanis have been totally different.

Constant ridicule and contempt for all things Bangladeshi. Indifference and even jokes about rape and murder.

Older, younger, salafi, tablighi, deendar, bey-deeni, first-gen immigrants, youth who grew up in the West...if this is the norm amongst the relatively small but diverse amount of Pakistanis I've met then I can only imagine what Pakistanis as a whole feel about Bangladeshis.

So, I can't accept statements like ""There isn’t a single Pakistani who defends, approves or gloats in atrocities (actual or perceived) on 1971", "nobody hates them", "me (or any other Pakistani) most certainly has no hate for people of Bangladesh"...

If it was someone else besides yourself, I might have said they were lying.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 15:08

kanzoorbhai wrote:
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I have spent decades reading reports, official investigations, reading books speaking to people (my Father and family included) and NEVER MET a single person who praises rape of anyone let alone Bangali. If you have met people who glorify rape, torture etc then such people are despicable humans; no excuse.

Praising Pakistan Army is not the same as praising (alleged or real) crimes and I hope that despite your feelings you can remain objective and see the distinction.

There is plenty of independent (& Indian) investigations and books on 1971 so no reason for anyone to accept anything but read and come to their own conclusions.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 15:25
abu mohammed wrote:
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Brainwashing or whatever we call, it was inevitable.

Ruling party and one of the two major political parties, Awami League was always strong in friendship with India. This friendship has now turned into slavish devotion. In other words, AL is Indian representative in Bangladesh.

Believe it or not, history parts of textbooks change according to the ruling party. When AL is in power, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman is worshipped and history revolves around him. However, when Bangladesh Nationalist Party is in charge, those are moderated.

Liberation war of 1971 and subsequent independence have been made a religion. I don't know about any other country that keeps blabbering on about their history of independence on a daily basis. Bengali literature is riddled with all of these war, invaders, atrocity, resistance, freedom fighter, triumph stuffs.

Therefore, it's very normal for a young Bangladeshi to hate Pakistan and love India.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 15:38
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 15:53
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Respected brother, just like you met some Bangladeshi people who taunted, abused you and commented sarcastically, brother kanzoorbhai might have met similar Pakistani people. We all agree that any kind of abuse is despicable and that's true for you and brother kanzoorbhai.

If we focus on history, then we see:

1. Our misery started from the creation of Pakistan. The bizarre map of former Pakistan was sufficient to understand that Indian influence and revolt were inevitable.

2. Pakistani leaders were devoid of foresight as they clearly made people revolt by oppression and letting India to get perfect chance to weaken Pakistan.

3. India won against Pakistan.

4. General people paid the toll.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 16:20
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2015 23:21
Can you guys recommend books in English about the conflict/split from both perspective?
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