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Fatwa vs Taqwa

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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:16

london786 wrote:
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There are 2 aspects of your concern:

  1. Emotional
  2. Islamic

I can't address the first one.

On the second one as long as the laymen has selected a Mufti who is pious, Sunnah practising and obtained a ruling and acted on it then he/she has absolved his/her religion.

In our times there is Ikhtilaaf on Islamic mortgages on Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) and other Ulamah. I had a heated discussion with Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira Saheb (HA) and in the end he had no choice but to admit two facts which we both agreed upon:

  1. Fact Number 1: Ulamah have the right to disagree with Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) and make their opinion clear to the public
  2. Fact Number 2: Laymen have the right to take whichever opinion they like and they will not be held responsible for it on the day of judgement.

Unless and until the Alim whom you are referring to is part of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat and trusted by other Ulamah you can't blame the laymen for acting on that advice.

As far as women travelling without Mehram is concerned it is the opinion of many many Deobandi Ulamah that it is permissable. It goes against the Madhab and it goes against Hadeeth (I know) but if a laymen acts on it then we can't blame them.

I WILL NOT name names of Ulamah who hold this opinion because it is upto them to make their names public but this opinion does exist.

You cannot expect the laymen to get in there to sort this out, its unreasonable.

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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:23
so if i follow the opinion that my wife can sit with a ghair mahram driving instructor in a car as stated by mufti x (whose taqwa is well known and ilm is well known) then it is ok? If I take a conventional mortgage as a pious mufti deems it neccesary is that ok? If my children take a student loan based on a mufti considering it neccesity is it ok? Look bro these are genuine questions...I am being totally serious.
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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:27

london786 wrote:
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As I said I can't answer the issues emotionally but Islamically a laymen MUST KNOW whom they are following.

  1. Your Shaykh is NOT necessarily a Mufti
  2. But in case of a Mufti like Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) and HSBC Amanah Mortgage a laymen is not (Insha'Allah) under any obligation to abandon his ruling (although other Ulamah may disagree with him)

A well known Shaykh in UK may not be a Faqih or a Mufti and the issue in UK is Tassawuff where most laymen get the rulings from their Shaykh so its a matter which needs to be sorted out by Mashaykh and not laymen.

You cannot blame the laymen for British mess! We don't run British Darul-ulooms and are not responsible for politics between Ulamah and Mashaykh.

Neither are Indian (laymen) Muslims (despite all the scandals, scams etc) since they don't run Indian Darul-ulooms and are not responsible for politics between Ulamah and Mashaykh.

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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:30
please answer the specific scenarios based on the fact that these rulings were given by people recongized as major ulema. If I followed those specific rulings am I in sin?
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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:36

london786 wrote:
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There is a problem in UK with Hazrat worship so every Shaykh of Tassawuff is "Major Ulamah" probably biggest in the world! Many of these "Major Ulamah" are graduates of Dars-e-Nizami and that's at best.

So lets discuss the situation in a calm Academic manner.

First Scenario:

  1. Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) has declared HSBC Amanah Mortgage permissable
  2. Many Ulamah (including askimam.org and others) disagree with him
  3. Many (laymen) Muslims in UK (Deobandees, Barelwees and Salafees) have HSBC Amanah Mortgage and they have done so while relying on Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA)

How are they sinning?
 

Second Scenario:

  1. Darul-uloom Bury has been sending out (Christmas Cards/Seasons Greeting Cards etc) for decades
  2. They DON'T admit it
  3. They DON'T acknowledge it
  4. They TRY to explain it away

Is this really a Fatwa? Is this something laymen can act on?

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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:43
I did not say they are sinning. I myself am confused on the issue that is why I am asking for a satisfactory answer. But if they are not sinning then according to that reasoning the people in my scenario would also not be sinning? Also the person following the girlfriend fatwa and 'other' fatwas would not be sinning. You seen some of the 500 pages tibyan ones.....so what is to say if a person follows that and other such batil (yes those fatwas many of them are batil) will it be ok and a person is not sinning.
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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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On a side note, I thought Mufti Taqi withdrew his name ? As HSBC heavily marketed his name as approval of the mortgage but in the mortgage HSBC added their own terms and clauses which apparently contradicted the Shariah , I could be wrong but a certain alim told this a while back, Walahu-Alam
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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:44
scenario 2 is clear cut batil....even now not a proper response was given.
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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:47

london786 wrote:
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First of all estbalish the Fatwa! To the best of my knowledge NONE OF THESE Mashaykh actually admit in public what they say in private. That is enough for people to be on guard so what you are discussing is heresay (not facts).

I keep giving example of Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) because:

  1. His Fatwa is public
  2. (A large number of ) Ulamah disagree with him

I gave you example of Darul-uloom Bury and Christmas/Seasons Greeting cards?

  • Is it a Fatwa?
  • Where have they admitted it (publicly)?
  • Where have they given a Fatwa for it?
  • But are they doing it? Yes and for decades.

So how can a laymen act on something like that?

london786 wrote:
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Whether its Baatil or Haqq is stage 2! Stage 1 is actually getting a public and known opinion on the matter! So whether "Mashaykh" are doing it or not doing it is irrelevant because they don't admit it publicly!

So your scenario of Mashaykh giving a Fatwa needs to be established first? Are they really giving a Fatwa???

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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:48
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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:53

Jinn wrote:
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My information is a few years old and at that time:

  1. It was approved by Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA)
  2. When he withdrew it was approved Shaykh (Mufti) Imran Usmani (HA)

So either way DU Karachi had a hand in it but for the sake of establishing an example go with Meezan Bank which Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) still approves

The example still stands but the specifics may change with time.

  1. Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) and his Fatwa is public about Meezan Bank
  2. (A large number of ) Ulamah disagree with him
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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 11:54
abu mohammed wrote:
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I am Sorry but there is no issue of Taqwa vs Fatwa here. Khalwa with a female is HARAM!
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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 12:06
so muadh a mufti whose taqwa is well known gave another fatwa that it is allowed for females to be taught by male driving instructors...if we follow this mufti is it sinful?
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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 12:14

london786 wrote:
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  1. If Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) May Allah forbid (Ameen) was to give a Fatwa like this then there are two scenarios:
    1. If someone knows the details and knows that Fatwa is wrong but still acts on the Fatwa then he is playing games with Allah (SWT) and deception and its wrong (as told to me by Ulamah)
    2. If someone has no idea and merely acts on that Fatwa then he is a Muqallid and absolved of his responsibility.

From what I have been told that the moment you become convinced of the incorrect nature of a Fatwa then you cannot act on it.

The example of it in UK is moonsighting.

Many many people (laymen and Ulamah) know Saudia is wrong (they say it, admit it) and YET act on it due to their Shaykh or whatever and people believe that they are doing Taqleed (despite knowing and being convinced of an error).

Is this valid? Not from what I have heard from Ulamah.

Taqwa is abstaining from sin. Doing something wrong (knowingly and willfully) and making excuses is Haram so there is no issue of Fatwa vs Taqwa.

Bottom line is SHOW ME this Fatwa? Is it public? Is it well known? Until then its just heresay!

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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2014 12:22
I can't show you this fatwa. As you know in most cases it consists of asking a question verbally. I have a chain of narration for it however as follows; from me, from my father who heard it from his friend who heard it from the mufti.
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