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Hazrat,
Jazakallahu Khayran for pointing out my error, I will correct my mistake but the same principle applies.
May Allah (SWT) reward you abundantly for correcting me (Ameen).
I have quoted his definition of "Taqwa" and it has nothing to do with Fatwa. Hazrat, do you not beleive that under the terms of fairness and justice you and Hazrat Deoband Saheb should prove the relevance of the quotation to "Fatwa"?
Produce his statement where he claims that a "laymen" should consult multiple Muftees and then chose the harsher (more cautious) opinion? I have produced quoted after quote that a laymen should consult a pious and praiseworthy Mufti and act on the Fatwa.
You brothers havn't done any such thing at all.
Query 1 (The Taqleed of the lay person):
In the context of Taqleed a "lay person" is defined as one who knows little regarding the Arabic language, and about Islam in general even though they may be intelligent in other fields of knowledge. Proficiency to read Arabic titles concerning the Qur'an and Sunnah but devoid of any formal Islamic studies with a qualified instructor would also place a person within the ambit of laity. In addition, students who have taken formal courses in Islamic sciences but have failed to develop acumen would also fall within this classification. The above mentioned are under an obligation to practice Taqleed. They must follow a specific Imam and Mujtahid because they simply do not have the ability to refer to the Qur'an and Sunnah directly nor can they differentiate between what is apparently contradictory and give scholarly preference to one opinion over the other. Shaykh Khatib of Baghdad wrote:
"As for those who should apply Taqleed it is the lay person who does not know the methods of extracting Islamic rules. It is permissible for such a person to follow one specific Imam and act upon his Fatwas. This is so because he does not possess the tools for Ijtihad so his duty is to follow, just as a blind person must follow someone who is able to see for determining the direction of the Qiblah."
The Muqallid (follower) on this level cannot get caught up in discussions of proofs to see which Imam's view is stronger. His duty is merely to appoint one Mujtahid and follow his opinions in all matters. This is because he is not academically capable of making judgments of that kind. So much so that even if this person finds a Hadith which apparently contradicts the opinion of his appointed Imam, he should not resort to following the Hadith, but rather adhere to his Imam's opinion. He should assume that he has not understood the meaning or context of the Hadith appropriately or he should have no doubt that his Imam has a stronger proof than the Hadith in question, which he may not be aware of.
Query 2 (How does a lay person recognise a Mujtahid)?
The essence of Taqleed is that a person who doesn't have the capability to reach a decision based on the Qur'an and Sunnah should adhere to an expert scholar and rely upon his judgement. A question may arise from this explanation. That is, if the person following has no academic merit, how is he to determine the expertise of the scholar whom he is asking and following?"
In response to this question, we will suffice with an excerpt from Imam Ghazali:
"If it is asked, a lay person may base his choice on assumptions and hence, he may be deceived by appearances. This may lead him to give preference to a lesser Imam over one who is more suited. So if he is allowed to exercise his judgement (in choosing an Imam) and acts upon his assumptions, why can't he then act upon his assumptions in the issue under discussion? Understanding the various degrees of scholarship is very intricate and a lay person cannot be the best judge for that. This question is valid. Our answer is that if a non-physician, whose child has become sick,decides to administer medicine as he sees fit will be held responsible and will be guilty of transgression. If he consults a physician, he will not be responsible and will not be transgressing. If there are two physicians in town and they differ over the prescription, then if the father of the son decides to take the prescription of the lesser over that of the better physician, he will be held accountable. He (the father) would know of the better physician by merely listening to the opinions formed by patients, by the lesser physician's referral to the better physician and by overwhelming signs which will convince him (the father) that this physician is better than the other. The same is the case for choosing the best scholar from several. There is no need to look into the issue itself (just as it is not necessary to look into the prescription or medicine). This much, the lay person is quite capable of doing and determining. It is not proper to go against the overwhelming assumption merely because of likes and dislikes. This is the most correct opinion in our view and the most suitable for regulating people in God-consciousness (Taqwa) and accountability."
Answers to third objecion on my stance from Qur'aan and Imam Khateeb Baghdadi (RA):
Query 3 (Alim needs to be pious, person of Taqwa and practising):
First and foremost shameful (Anti-Sunnah), vulgar acts are forbidden upon every Muslim (let alone a Scholar) as Allah (SWT) has clearly stated it to acts of Shaytaan.
لۡ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّىَ ٱلۡفَوَٲحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنۡہَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَٱلۡإِثۡمَ وَٱلۡبَغۡىَ بِغَيۡرِ ٱلۡحَقِّ وَأَن تُشۡرِكُواْ بِٱللَّهِ مَا لَمۡ يُنَزِّلۡ بِهِۦ سُلۡطَـٰنً۬ا وَأَن تَقُولُواْ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ
[7:33] Say, .My Lord has prohibited only the shameful acts, whether open or secret, and (every) sinful act, and unjust aggression, and that you associate with Allah anything for which He has not sent any authority, and that you attribute to Allah any thing about which you do not have sure knowledge.
إِنَّمَا يَأۡمُرُكُم بِٱلسُّوٓءِ وَٱلۡفَحۡشَآءِ وَأَن تَقُولُواْ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ
[2:169] He orders you only to (do) evil and immodest acts, and that you ascribe to Allah what you do not know.
Imam Abu Abdullah Al-Hanbali (RA) states that a Mufti must refrain from lies, Haram, Makrooh etc and must be a person of Adalah:
والعدل من استمر على فعل الواجب والمندوب والصدق وترك الحرام والمكروه والكذب ، مع حفظ مروءته ومجانبة الريب والتهم . . .
Imam Khateeb Baghdadi (RA) said that Fatwa of a Faasiq cannot be accepted no matter how knowledgeable he is!
وأجمع العلماء على أن الفاسق لا تقبل منه الفتوى ، ولو كان من أهل العلم . كما صرح بذلك الخطيب البغدادي
Answers to fourth objecion on my stance from Hadeeth:
Query 4 (Alim who is pious, person of Taqwa and practising makes a mistake):
So once you have selected a "Muft" then what happens if he makes a mistake? This is well known Hadeeth
عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ الْعَاصِ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ إِذَا حَكَمَ الْحَاكِمُ فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَصَابَ فَلَهُ أَجْرَانِ وَإِذَا حَكَمَ فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَخْطَأَ فَلَهُ أَجْرٌ
Sayyidina Amr ibn Al-Aas (RA) reported: The Messenger of Allah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said, “If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning (ijtihad) and he is correct, then he will have two rewards. If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning and he is mistaken, then he will have one reward.” [Bukhari]
Answers to fifth objecion on my stance:
Query 5 (Alim who is be pious, person of Taqwa and practising makes a mistake):
What I am saying here is that there are 2 categories of people here:
Primary disagreements with my Brothers:
Allah (SWT) has Masha'Allah blessed with knowledge and you have realised an error in the stance of a well known "Mufti" so don't act on it. However, you can't expect an ignoramus like me to be on the same level as you!Secondary disagreements with my Brothers:
The proof is the following speech of Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) on Shaykh (Maulana) Abdul-Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) from minutes 35 onwards where it is clearly stated that Shaykh (Maulana) Abdul-Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) approached Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) or other Muftees in his lifetime for Fatwaas. Two further and quick examples:
There are Masha'Allah Ulamah who are Khulafah (Mashaykh of Tassawuff) and also Faqih (i.e. Mufti) and Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) is a fine example of that.
Answers to sixth objecion on my stance:
Query 6 (Selecting the most cautious opinion for laymen) allegation that Shaykh Ibn Juzayy (RA) advocated this (original allegation)
Hazrat,
I am at your Service, Insha'Allah and although this matter has been answered previously but here it is officially.
What is being discussed in this thread is "Taqwa" in REFERENCE to and in CONTEXT with "Fatwa" and Shaykh Ibn Juzayy (RA) NEVER advocated taking a harsher (or more cautious) opinion in between two Fatwaas at all anywhere. The quote which you have produced is in terms of Tazkiyah and no in terms for laymen to choose a Fatwa.
You have taken Tassawuff (Tazkiyah) and trying to apply it to Fiqh and I have stated multple times that this is the approach being used by you and Br London786. He even claims "Khulafah" to be "BIG SCHOLARS"
To show you that your quotation has nothing to do with with "Fatwa"here is his definition from the beginning of the Chapter and he (RA) says:
"Taqwa's meaning is fear, clinging to obedience to Allah and abandoning disobedience to Him. It is the sum of all good."
To sum up the discussion your error is misunderstanding Taqwa in REFERENCE to and in CONTEXT with "Fatwa"
The difference is individual decisions vs acting on "Fatwa" of a pious, praiseworthy Scholar.
You have yet to give some examples from Usool (principles) of Fiqh of laymen OBLIGATED to adopt a harsher (or cautious) view. When a person consults a Mufti and he is a laymen (meaning unaware and unable to grasp the intricacies) then he simply follows the Fatwa and that is “Taqwa”
Dua: May Allah (SWT) reward Hazrat Siraji and his family the best of success in this world and the next (Ameen) for correcting me as indeed I had made a mistake in the name of the Scholar.
P.S: Fatawa Haqqaniyah (Voume 1/Page 64) has Aadaab (ettiquetts) of Mustafti (one asking Mufti) and there is no such thing as adopting harsher (or more cuatious) opinion. merely:
Answers to seventh objecion on my stance:
Query 7 (Prove that Shaykh Ibn Juzayy (RA) NEVER advocated taking a harsher (or more cautious) opinion in between two Fatwaas)
Shaykh Ibn Juzayy (RA) view on Taqleed of laymen is the SAME as all Ulamah which is summarised as:
Here is the categoric statement of his (RA):
أعلم أن المقلد عَلَى غير ثقة فيما قلد فيه ، وفي التقليد إبطال منفعة العقل ، لأنه إنما خلق للتأمل والتدبر وقبيح بمن أعطي شمعة يستضيء بِهَا أن يطفئها ويمشي فِي الظلمة ، واعلم أن عموم أصحاب المذاهب يعظم فِي قلوبهم الشخص فيتبعون قوله من غير تدبر بما قَالَ ، وهذا عين الضلال ، لأن النظر ينبغي أن يكون إِلَى القول لا إِلَى القائل ، كَمَا قَالَ علي رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عنه للحرث بْن حوط : وَقَدْ قَالَ لَهُ : أتظن أنا نظن أن طلحة والزبير كانا عَلَى باطل ، فَقَالَ لَهُ : يا حارث إِنَّهُ ملبوس عليك إن الحق لا يعرف بالرجال أعرف الحق تعرف أهله ، وكان أَحْمَد بْن حنبل يَقُول : من ضيق علم الرَّجُل أن يقلد فِي اعتقاده رجلا ولهذا أخذ أَحْمَد بْن حنبل يَقُول : زيد فِي الجد وترك قول أبي بَكْر الصديق رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عنه ، فَإِن قَالَ قائل : فالعوام لا يعرفون الدليل ، فكيف لا يقلدون ، فالجواب إن دليل الاعتقاد ظاهر عَلَى مَا أشرنا إليه فِي ذكر الدهرية ، ومثل ذلك لا يخفى عَلَى عاقل ، وأما الفروع ، فإنها لما كثرت حوادثها واعتاص عَلَى العامي عرفانها وقرب لها أمر الخطأ فيها ، كان أصلح مَا يفعله العامي التقليد فيها لمن قد سبر ونظر ، إلا أن اجتهاد العامي فِي اختيار من يقلده
Answers to eight objecion on my stance:
Query 8 (Prove that a laymen can follow a wrong Fatwa)
I have already said that it depends on the circumstances and one cannot follow something which is known to be wrong!
Asslamo Allaikum Mufti Saheb (HA),
Quick response is needed and details are not required.
Question 1:
Suppose that a well known Mufti who is an Alim of Taqwa issue a wrong Fatwa:
Answer:
Question 2:
Should person in category 3 seek an alternative Fatwa just based on doubts for which he has no grounds?
Answer:
No not necessarily and not unless his doubts become predominant presumptions.
Shaykh (Mufti) Zubair Butt (HA)
Student Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA)
Fatwa discussed on WhatsApp on Wednesday the 09th of April 2014
Always open for discussions with my Brothers and accepting my errors; requesting your duas.
Objection already answered in point 7 (see above). If you would have read properly it would have saved you some time.Now moving to next objection...
2 separate matters; so far NO PROOF for anything has been given while I am taking my time and explaining my stance in detail and still requesting to be corrected.
It has already been categorically proven what Taqwa (in terms of asking for Fatwa is) and this is 3rd time it is being repeated:
Query 2 (How does a lay person recognise a Mujtahid)?
The essence of Taqleed is that a person who doesn't have the capability to reach a decision based on the Qur'an and Sunnah should adhere to an expert scholar and rely upon his judgement. A question may arise from this explanation. That is, if the person following has no academic merit, how is he to determine the expertise of the scholar whom he is asking and following?"
In response to this question, we will suffice with an excerpt from Imam Ghazali:
"If it is asked, a lay person may base his choice on assumptions and hence, he may be deceived by appearances. This may lead him to give preference to a lesser Imam over one who is more suited. So if he is allowed to exercise his judgement (in choosing an Imam) and acts upon his assumptions, why can't he then act upon his assumptions in the issue under discussion? Understanding the various degrees of scholarship is very intricate and a lay person cannot be the best judge for that. This question is valid. Our answer is that if a non-physician, whose child has become sick,decides to administer medicine as he sees fit will be held responsible and will be guilty of transgression. If he consults a physician, he will not be responsible and will not be transgressing. If there are two physicians in town and they differ over the prescription, then if the father of the son decides to take the prescription of the lesser over that of the better physician, he will be held accountable. He (the father) would know of the better physician by merely listening to the opinions formed by patients, by the lesser physician's referral to the better physician and by overwhelming signs which will convince him (the father) that this physician is better than the other. The same is the case for choosing the best scholar from several. There is no need to look into the issue itself (just as it is not necessary to look into the prescription or medicine). This much, the lay person is quite capable of doing and determining. It is not proper to go against the overwhelming assumption merely because of likes and dislikes. This is the most correct opinion in our view and the most suitable for regulating people in God-consciousness (Taqwa) and accountability."
Always open for discussions with my Brothers and accepting my errors; requesting your duas.
I have repeatedly asked for you to write clearly instead of just repeating.My request has been MOCKED and DENIED saying that if others can understand it why can't ?
Now lets start again. What have I missed? Please write clearly as to what you believe I have missed.
What the "Ignorant laymen" can or cannot see is not my issue. My concern is to:
How can be of Service? Please be clear and I hope that you will forgive me if I ask for clarification to ensure that there is no ambiguity before answer.
Waiting for your detailed query.
Jazakallahu Khayran
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
Please wait...
