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Fatwa vs Taqwa

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#121 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd April 2014 13:19
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#122 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd April 2014 15:06

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My Brother in Islam,

Lets hit the RESET button and start again.

  1. I don't want to discuss anything on my own terms
  2. The matter is not about popularity or likes or approves but about the truth and sincerity. If we make sincere intention we will be rewarded not matter who likes or dislikes it.
  3. IF I am wrong, correct me
  4. I will apologise happily retract, seek your forgiveness and make dua for you
  5. The reason I am using Colours and fonts and numberings is to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that you understand me
  6. And I am ASKING you and everyone else to do the same
  7. I have made my point crystal clear, I have backed it with the writings of Ulamah

In return of all of the above, I would like one thing for you:

  • Retract your accusation against Maulana Yasin (HA) and the forum

You can hate me, like me, detest me but you DON'T have any right to slander someone else and try to drag other issues in your discussion just because you can't or are unable to discuss the issue at hand.

If you are judging your knowledge and quest for Islam by likes on your posts; you have a problem.

If others are clicking like because it is against me; they have a problem.

The entire forum can hit dislike on every single one of my posts and matters not as long as I am within the confining of Shariah and sincere in my intention.

You do have some emotional issues which you need to address and I humbly suggest you logoff and then discuss when you are able to discuss things in a level-headed manner.

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#123 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd April 2014 19:45
السلام عليكم

When I requoted Arsalans posts, I never thought it would turned into a new thread and it would go into 9 pages of hairsplitting discussion.

Why don't we all move on?

I m sure the disagreement towards the opening statement has been established firmly, and counter-arguments and counter-counter-arguments have also been expressed. Right now this thread is going in circles. Kindly do not waste time. This is NOT a hairsplitting issue. And it is definitely not worth 9 pages of discussion.

Wasalaam.
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#124 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:12
siraji wrote:
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was there a need for this bro? Subhanallah we are all brothers. Some private naseeha would have been ok. The christmas cards issue still burning you bro??? Come on let it off your chest
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#125 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:17
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Bro muadh the 3 scenarios I have quoted;

1. Conventional mortgage (not the halal one) is allowed is given by a khalifah of a khalifah of shaykh zakariyah rh as well as a huge scholar of deen
2. Student loans bearing interest is allowed as per a khalifah of a khalifah of shaykh zakariya rh as well as a huge scholar of deen
3. women allowed to be driven by male driving instructors fatwa given by amongst the top muftis of the UK whose taqwa is at such a level that he does not even eat at other people's house etc.

So these are not azhari guys...

Also who decides weather a person is a mutaqi or not? To many people azhar shaykhs, clean shaven, trimmed beard are mutaqi.
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#126 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:21
london786 wrote:
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First of all what does being a Khalifa of someone mean? How is that a qualification of being an expert in Fiqh? Come on bro, of all people you can't quote stuff like this.

Was Shaykh (Haji) Imdadullah Muhajir Makki (RA) a Scholar of Fiqh and Hadeeth?
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#127 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:29
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Bhai you made a requirement of taqwa so I am quoting that the 3 people mentioned are all khulafah so should satisfy the criteria of taqwa according to most definitions though once again this is a debatable point knowing the state of the khulafah of today. All the 3 mentioned scholars are teachers of hadeeth with all 3 having held the postion of shaykh ul hadeeth teaching bukhari sharif. So no question of a lack of ilm (depends on criteria for ilm once again)
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#128 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:31

london786 wrote:
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  1. What do you think the first obvious requirement for a "Scholar" is? Being a Scholar or having Taqwa?
  2. Imam Muslim (RA) was a great Master of Hadeeth, please show me his Fatwaas?
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#129 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:35
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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bro forget the nitty gritty...in such a situation what should I do?
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#130 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:42

london786 wrote:
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The nitty gritty is down right important. If I am not a Scholar or a Faqih (which I am 110% not) would you take my Fatwa? Why would you even ask a question trying to evaluate my "Fatwa"? I have no ability to give a Fatwa so whatever I have to say is NULL and VOID to begin with!

  1. If you are a traditional then nobody has given me Ijazah to issue Fatwaas
  2. If you are a Salafi then I havn't studied anywhere for this specific branch

Either way its BOGUS so why would I ignore the nitty-gritty and try to evaluate the opinion?

Same applies to someone who is a Khaleefa? What sort of qualification is that to give a "Fatwa"?

Same applies to someone who is a teacher of Saheeh Bukhari? What sort of qualification is that to give a "Fatwa"? If Imam Muslim COULD NOT and DID NOT give a Fatwa what makes you think that a teacher of Saheeh Bukahri in 2014 can give a Fatwa?

Your, Siraji's and Deoban's queries are covered here in detail

The issue with you and vast majority of Deobandees is "Tassawuff" it has confused you guys to such an extent that you think being a "well known Khaleefa" means the person has knowledge and ability in Fiqh automatically.

Bro, Imam Muslim (RA) COULD NOT and DID NOT give a Fatwa...he bypassed Fiqh entirely in his book so what makes you think a "Khaleefa" can give Fatwaas.

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#131 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:50
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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bhai muadh you have totally misunderstood my post and once again started attacking sulook. What I am saying is me as a stupid layman how can I decide who has taqwa and knowledge. Also I am aware of the difference between the muhaditteen and the fuqaha. i.e. in earlier times there was a distinction. The same people who I have mentioned have taught fiqh books as well and are well versed in fiqh i.e. at least 2 of the 3 have 'mufti' as a title and I'm pretty sure the 3rd one must have done ifta. So they fall into the cateogry of muhaditheen/fuqaha....anyway what I am saying is forget the nitty gritty answer my questions. If I follow the 3 rulings given by muftis who have done iftaa is that ok? We shall have a detailed discussion face to face some time inshallah.
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#132 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:51
Im not sure what Christmans card issue you are talking about? If it is about bury and cards as the discussion above? FYI i follow the view it is impermissible, and have no emotional/personal attachment to bury at all. In fact, I've never even seen the main scholar at the madrasa so please hold back your accusation - "some private naseehah would have been okay. There was no need for this. We are all brothers, remember."

i wouldve thought reading your posts on sunniforum that you have some respect for Mashayikh, but you also appear to be jumping with Muadh and fake shaykh. It is quite sad how respect for ahlullah has become a thing to laugh and scorn at. I am too worried of the repurcussions, that we come here and make fun of them, brand them as two-faced, mock their Taqwa and say that it is "fake" etc. You cannot let all this happen, and sit back and do some "private naseeha" - you gotta sort it out in public, just as they are ridiculing mashayikh in public.

Some examples below from this thread:

"My Shaykh vs Your Shaykh is British Tassawuff but not Islam."

"To the best of my knowledge NONE OF THESE Mashaykh actually admit in public what they say in private. That is enough for people to be on guard so what you are discussing is heresay (not facts)."

"So whether "Mashaykh" are doing it or not doing it is irrelevant because they don't admit it publicly!"

"The christmas cards issue still burning you bro??? Come on let it off your chest"

So Mr SUFI london786, is this appropriate? You think it's a minor thing to scorn at mashayikh, to publically say they are two-faced? I'm not sure about you, but I fear for such a person's spriitual wellbeing, may ALLAH protect me and all of us from this, ameen

london786 wrote:
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#133 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:56
It's been almost 10 pages, and he hasn't answered a single question DIRECTLY. All his responses are what we call "beating around the bush". He is evading your question, Deoband question, my question. But in his mind, he thinks he has answered everyone and he thinks he is some authority

Awesome!


london786 wrote:
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#134 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 10:58

london786 wrote:
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We can meet anytime but lets discuss issues calmly, Insha'Allah.

Did you write this?

Conventional mortgage (not the halal one) is allowed is given by a khalifah of a khalifah of shaykh zakariyah rh as well as a huge scholar of deen

I have just asked when did being Khalifah become a qualification to issue Fatwaas?

I didn't write this, you did brother so I am asking a question.

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#135 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2014 11:02
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Dude, you know exactly what he is saying, but you are just avoiding.

He said two things:

1. khalifah
2. big scholar

So there are two aspects to this personality from a layman point of view:

1. Khalifah means (to the average person, and in most cases inshallah), that he has a high level of taqwa
2. big scholar means he is a Mufti, a SENIOR mufti with many students, a scholar who is surrounded by knowledge inside and out.

Your criteria for taking fatwa was:

1. he be a person of taqwa
2. he be a scholar/mufti

Now, what london786 is saying, is that the person in question, fulfils your criteria, so (drum roll, big question): can we follow that opinion? are we following taqwa when following his opinion?
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