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Refutation of Shaykh Akram Awan and Naqshbandi Owaisi Silsila

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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 14:33
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Insha'Ala if brother Alif is genuine and has qualms about his post,tone, methods etc

the brother can InshaAla PM brother London786

let's get this thread back on topic now.
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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 14:34

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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There appear to be more dodgy characters in Tassawuff than Paedophiles in British Government!

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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 14:36
Abdullah bin Mubarak wrote:
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MashaAllah,beautiful !
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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 14:39
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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The reason to this is, because it's a BIG business brother.
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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 15:02

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Didn't he get convincted in Texas?

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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 15:43
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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i spend time with tabligh jamaat, but one problem with them is they generally invite people to their organisation rather than to the deen. no matter how much you are on the deen, it is not enough unless you join them and follow their tarteeb and mashwera.
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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 16:08
xs11ax wrote:
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I will respectfully disagree with that brother, no one calls to the organisation, let's not take actions of a few ignorants and paint everyone with the same brush. There are usools that the ulema have come up with to benefit the work that's all.

We won't agree and you won't agree with what others might have to say to you , so rather then taking this thread off track and all of us going around in circles, no point even taking this further, best to just bury this here and I do understand your grievances which you have mentioned before .

InshAla you are welcome to set up your own jamaat or benefit from any other organisation out there.
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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 18:20
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I dont know...what I do know is that he had a following in Chicago perhaps anyone with Shaykh Fusus al Hikams contact details could get further info from him.

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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 19:11
Abdullah bin Mubarak wrote:
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Quote:
I will respectfully disagree with that brother, no one calls to the organisation, let's not take actions of a few ignorants and paint everyone with the same brush.[/quote]

i was actually told by hafez patel (senior member of dewsbury shura) that i either stay 100% with tabligh jamaat and not join with another effort i was with, or leave tabligh jamaat and do what i like. i.e its either tabligh jamaat or the highway. so i respectfully disagree with you as well.

Quote:
There are usools that the ulema have come up with to benefit the work that's all.[/quote]

i dont doubt that at all. some i accept are needed and some i dont accept. but that is just my opinion and i dont expect everyone to agree with my opinion. but if someone calls out tabligh jamaat on a particular issue then dont try to hide it. own up to it.

[quote]We won't agree and you won't agree with what others might have to say to you , so rather then taking this thread off track and all of us going around in circles, no point even taking this further, best to just bury this here and I do understand your grievances which you have mentioned before .


if you wanted to bury it then you should have left it. dont reply to me and then say dont take this further.

[quote]InshAla you are welcome to set up your own jamaat or benefit from any other organisation out there.


this is a classic problem with fanboys of any particular group or organisation. even a slight criticism and they want to throw their toys out of the pram. i benefit from wherever i can benefit and that includes tabligh jamaat. if there is something i dont agree with then i have every right to speak about it. and just because i criticise some particular aspect does not mean i have enmity with the whole organisation. if my son does something wrong then i will tell him. this does not make him my enemy.

my affiliation is to islam and not to any particular group, organisation, or personality. only allah is perfect and beyond even the thought of criticism. the prophet (saw) was perfect as he was guided by allah. to even think that a man made organisation and present day personalities are beyond error or criticism is error itself. we all know the ayats of the quran, hadith and stories of the sahaba that warn us from this. but everyone seems to think this is only relevant to someone else's shaikh and not my own. we think this is only relevant to the ulama that other people follow and not those that i follow. we think this is only relevant to the organisations that others join and not the organisation that i join.

this mentality is the same mentality we are criticising the owaisis of in this very thread. but we fail to see it within ourselves. the owaisis believe that only they are on haq and beyond criticism and they can criticise everyone else. we are displaying this same mentality.
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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 19:39
Everyone please don't hide this valuable and quality work of refuting a thug under bundles of useless posts. Don't want to offend anyone.
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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 4th September 2015 01:04
xs11ax wrote:
with tabligh jamaat, but one problem with them is they generally invite people to their organisation rather than to the deen. no matter how much you are on the deen, it is not enough unless you join them and follow their tarteeb and mashwera.[/quote]

1) Please explain and also provide evidence as to how they exactly invite to their organisation and not DEEN.

2) You sound hurt and bitter, you have sounded like this for a few years now and this results in your negative posts online, rants etc

Quote:
i was actually told by hafez patel (senior member of dewsbury shura) that i either stay 100% with tabligh jamaat and not join with another effort i was with, or leave tabligh jamaat and do what i like. i.e its either tabligh jamaat or the highway. so i respectfully disagree with you as well. [/quote]
I can actually see where he’s coming from and from a neutral perspective can see why he’s possibly taken that approach, however for starters why don’t you explain to me,’ what exactly he meant by the above’ ?

However since you’ve been ranting on about the same thing for a few years now to no avail lets break it down for you.....

1) Do you really think that he would say something that would actually jeopardise the whole effort ? Sir if you do then you must be a fool and more thicker than I actually thought.

2) Do you think anyone in any position belonging to any organization would say something that could be possibly illegal in that country and mean a prison sentence ? Whether that be online or offline ?

3) The ones who were foolish, their organisations are banned and black listed and many of their members are behind bars, whom are they proving benefit to whilst being banned or being behind bars ? Think from a neutral perspective.

He was right in the comment’s he made to you, now you choose a line and stick to it. But if you want to act all ‘bottom hurt’ about it and make funny comments online then I’m sorry be prepared to face criticism and disagreement.


Quote:
i dont doubt that at all. some i accept are needed and some i dont accept. but that is just my opinion and i dont expect everyone to agree with my opinion. but if someone calls out tabligh jamaat on a particular issue then dont try to hide it. own up to it. [/quote]

What me and you accept or don’t accept of the usools don’t really matter they are there for a purpose and that's all. If you still have genuine concerns then you know where nizamudeen/raiwand is, feel free to hop on the next flight there, if not go to the yearly, monthly mashwera and take it from there. It’s a system and there’s ways to go about things, if you don’t like it then I’ve listed other options for you.

Quote:
. but if someone calls out tabligh jamaat on a particular issue then dont try to hide it. own up to it[/quote]

1) What’s this got to do with usools ?

2) No one is hiding it, you’re the one with the tendency of going on a rant each time, something I witnessed for some time now since SF days.

3) None is hiding it and we all agree no jamaat or any being alive today is perfect.

Quote:
if you wanted to bury it then you should have left it. dont reply to me and then say dont take this further. [/quote]

1)Let me mention what I mentioned to you before : 'We won't agree and you won't agree with what others might have to say to you , so rather then taking this thread off track and all of us going around in circles and this will definitely go in circles'.

2)Your post was out of order hence a reply was necessary.


Quote:
this is a classic problem with fanboys of any particular group or organisation


Tut Tut Tut First of all stop acting all butthurt sir and I’m not a fanboy and neither do I belong to any group or organisation but I shall stand up for the truth InshaAla, shall I make a generalisation as well and refer to people like you as retards who are always moaning on the negatives and come online looking for some support and sympathy from others ? No wouldn’t be nice would it :)

[quote] even a slight criticism and they want to throw their toys out of the pram


So we should let you continue making bogus false claims with no justification and left unchallenged ? Middle life crisis eh missing your 'action man toy' or something sir ?


[quote] i benefit from wherever i can benefit and that includes tabligh jamaat


Only place you benefit from is your self inflated ego/nafs and your buddys giving you high fives agreeing with you online, otherwise who the heck keeps moaning about the same thing for a number of years ? Check your niyyah brother, were you pleasing and doing for Allah before or others ? It seems the latter.

[quote] if there is something i dont agree with then i have every right to speak about it. and just because i criticise some particular aspect does not mean i have enmity with the whole organisation.


Yeah sure but be just in your criticism rather than making it look like an unjustified rant.


[quote] my affiliation is to islam and not to any particular group, organisation, or personality. only allah is perfect and beyond even the thought of criticism. the prophet was perfect as he was guided by allah. to even think that a man made organisation and present day personalities are beyond error or criticism is error itself. we all know the ayats of the quran, hadith and stories of the sahaba that warn us from this. but everyone seems to think this is only relevant to someone else's shaikh and not my own. we think this is only relevant to the ulama that other people follow and not those that i follow. we think this is only relevant to the organisations that others join and not the organisation that i join.


Again what a ignorant post :

1) So our affiliations varies from yours does it ? Check what your saying man ?

2) None thinks of any others or organisations as perfect or incapable of errors, this is just your nafs, ego and imagination playing tricks with you bro , continue ranting man if lightens your load you certainly need it by the looks of it.

[quote] this mentality is the same mentality we are criticising the owaisis of in this very thread. but we fail to see it within ourselves. the owaisis believe that only they are on haq and beyond criticism and they can criticise everyone else. we are displaying this same mentality.


1) You’re the one with the mentality issues bro, learn to put things into their proper context rather than take them out of context.

2) The whole owaisi saga is dubious and more than likely based on batil, something which we get to the bottom of inshala and that’s there is this thread but you decided to take it off track by making silly comments and claiming tj calls to an organisation and not to Deen.

3) Owaisi’s believe they are on haqq due to their dreams, unveilings, kashf, the stuff one feels when one does their zikr etc etc they believe they are the true sufis on haqq and everyone else is false.

4) Sad to say this brother but your seriously confused man. There is no harm in criticism but that critique should be actually genuine and valid.





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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 4th September 2015 05:27
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Well said dear brother. This must be the focus of the Silsila and it very much is. We do not condone anyone who takes pride in his Kashf. Moreover, Kashf has certain conditions to be valid, in that it must not go against the apparent Shariah, i.e. the Quran and the Sunnah. And even if valid, Kashf is only a Hujjat for the Wali who has it, not for the others.

With that said, I would once again like to emphasize that Kashf is very much a part of Tasawwuf. As you yourself said, you do not dispute that Kashf is proven by the Shariah. Now, do you think it's a petty or small thing if someone talks to people in their graves? You shun it away like it is an everyday matter, without bothering to investigate and verify. Instead, you come on this public forum that has been named "Mufti Says" (although I see mostly Juhla here).

Forgive me dear brother, but are you so much caught up in the superiority of your own self to go ahead and try to learn this priceless truth known as Tasawwuf? Or do you also think you already know it due to some Divine interference?

I think you have read about Tasawwuf. Do you know that Tasawwuf is Farz-e-Ain? Then have you adopted it?
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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 4th September 2015 05:36
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So, apparently, you say you believe in Kashf and Ilham after I posted the proof from the Quran, but actually you deny it. You don't believe anyone can have it in this day and age. You fail to validate and affirm true, living Aulia Allah, instead you choose to refute and ridicule them. You must have some cheeks my friend.

I'll present this passage from Dalail-us-Sulook that talks about the "believers" of Tasawwuf. The following passage precisely talks about people of your kind:

قائلین تصوف کے پھر دو گروہ ہیں ایک قلیل جماعت اعتقاداً تصوف کی قائل ہے اور عملاً بھی اس کی تصدیق کرتی ہے۔ در حقیقت یہی لوگ اہلِ حق ہیں اور قَلِیْل’‘ مِنْ عِبَادِیَ الشَّکُوْر’‘ (میرے شکر گزار بندے تھوڑے ہیں) (۴۳:۳۱)کے مصداق ہیں۔ ان کا وجود ہر زمانے میں رہا ہے اور نبوت کے اس شعبہ کی برکات انہیں کے وسیلے سے دنیا میں پھیلتی رہی ہیں۔

ایک جماعت ایسی ہے جو بظاہر تو تصوف کی قائل ہے مگر عملاً اس کی منکر ہے ان کے نزدیک تصوف صرف کتب تصوف کا مطالعہ کرلینے، اولیاء اللہ کی حکایات سن لینے سر دھننے اور جھومنے تک محدود ہے۔ یہ لوگ اول تو کسی عارف کامل مزکی و مصلح کی تلاش کی زحمت ہی گوارا نہیں کرتے جو عملاً سلوک سکھائے اور اتباع سنت پر زور دے۔ اور اگر کوئی ایسا شخص مل جائے جو تزکیہ باطن کا طریقہ سکھائے یا راہِ سلوک طے کرائے تو اس پر یقین نہیں کرتے بلکہ اس کا تمسخر اڑایا جاتا ہے حالانکہ ان کی بے یقینی کی اصل وجہ ان کا فکری اور عملی جمود ہوتا ہے وہ چاہتے ہیں کہ محنت نہ کرنی پڑے۔ محض زبانی باتوں اور حکایتوں سے ہی سلوک طے ہوجائے یہ لوگ بھی در اصل تصوفِ اسلامی کے منکر ہیں۔ اس جماعت میں بعض اوقات اس نعرہ کی گونج بھی سنائی دیتی ہے کہ ”شریعت اور چیز ہے اور طریقت اور چیز ہے“۔ یہ نعرہ کیا ہے کتاب و سنت سے آزادی اور اتباع سنت سے فرار کی ایک راہ نکال لی ہے۔
انکار کرامات کے اعتبار سے لوگوں کی کئی قسمیں ہیں
(۱)وہ جو مطلقاً منکر ہیں یہ مشہور اہل مذہب اور پرہیز گاری سے منحرف ہیں
(۲)وہ جو اگلے لوگوں کی کرامات کے قائل ہیں مگر اپنے زمانے کے کرامات کے منکر ہیں یہ لوگ بقول سیدی ابو الحسن شاذلیؒ، بنی اسرائیل کے مشابہ ہیں جنہوں نے حضرت موسیٰ ں کی اس وقت تصدیق کی جب ان کو نہیں دیکھا اور محمد ﷺ کی تکذیب کی اور اس کا باعث حسدو عداوت اور شقاوت کے سوا کچھ نہ تھا (۳) جو اس کی تصدیق کرتے ہیں کہ ان کے زمانے کے لوگوں میں بھی اللہ کے اولیاء ہیں لیکن کسی شخص معین کی تصدیق نہیں کرتے۔ ایسے لوگ اولیاء اللہ کی رہنمائی سے محروم ہیں (روض الریاحین از امام شافعیؒ بحوالہ الطبقات الکبری از علامہ عبدالوہاب شعرانی ترجمہ ص ۹۳ مرتب)


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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 4th September 2015 05:58
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 4th September 2015 11:54
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Firstly I am about the only one on this Forum who is sympathetic towards you...I believe Shaykh Allah Yaar Khan (RA) was a Shaykh e Kamil. As for the present day inheritors I am not so sure.

As for me learning Tassawuf, I am doing my research and when I find a Silsilah and a Shaykh e Kamil that I feel compatibility with.... Then I will move forward, in the times we live in it is essential to do due dilligence and proper research before making bayaat.

With all due respect non of our pious predecessors, made talking to graves a pre-requisite, even non-muslims mystics claim to be able to talk the dead, and read peoples thoughts etc.

As the Great Wali, of the Yemen Shaykh Abdullah ibn Alawi al Haddad, wrote many centuries ago even if you see a man flying in the air, or walking on water, do not be mesmerised by it, for even non-muslim mystics are able to acquire these abilities ....True Shaykh e Kamil is one whose entire life is in conformity with the Quran and Sunnah. That is the criteria.
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