Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Mental Health, Relationship breakdown and Muslim attitudes

You have contributed 25.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
Naqshband66, abu mohammed
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
112
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 8th October 2013 15:53

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Splitting this from the Jinn thread.

There are myriads of diagnosed and undetected mental health issues in the Muslim community.

  1. Mixed Anxiety and depression (general umbrella)
  2. Depression (various kinds and forms)
  3. OCD
  4. Autism (full specturm)
  5. Aspergers Syndrome

Many people go through these (temporarily)  due to childbirth, relationship issues, sexual unfulfilment, lack of emotional support.

Question 1:

Why does the Muslim community place everything at the doorsteps of Jinns and Black magic?  

Non-Muslim community has similar problems, they acknowledge it learn to cope with it and live with them and live a fairly normal life.  Many Muslims with these problems are not allowed in Mosques, not interacted with, labelled as crazy (and avoided)

Question 2:

If Ruqya, Quranic verses, and Dhikr is the answer to these issues then the same Surah Al-Fatiha is described is cure for everything so why do you take your family members to the Doctor and hospital for broken bones and injuries (just an example so don’t get hung-up on the specifics)? Why not recite Surah Al-Fiatha on all ailments and shun Doctors?

Why are Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Councillors, Social workers avoided of can be substituted with Dhikr but physical ailments need treatment?

Question 3:

We have so many brothers and sisters outside of a meaningful (emotional and physical) relationship don’t you think that the mood swings and odd behaviour they exhibit has something to do with it, rather then Jinns and Black magic?

Question 4:

Relationships have always and continue to break down and it could be just down to incompatibility between two people. Why does every relationship with a problem attributed to Jinns and Black magic?

Disclaimer:

None of this is to DENY the existence of Jinns and Black Magic because that is Kuf’r but the reason I bring it up is because a very good practising brother (a UK Hospital consultant) by profession recently visited a Ruqya facility in Saudi Arabia and his (professional and Islamic) assessment was that many of these “patients” have mental health issues but they were housed in pretty dire circumstances and MADE to listen to Qur’aan and other Ruqyas.

FACT:

According to experts in Ruqya and such sciences; children with Asperger’s syndrome and Autism have NOTHING to do with Black Magic and Jinns; they are born this way. Ayurveda, Chinese medicine also doesn't recognise Asperger’s syndrome and Autism as specific illnesses (to be cured).

How seeth thou on this issue?

report post quote code quick quote reply
+3 -0Like x 2Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Taalibah's avatar
Unspecified
7,126
Sister
831
Taalibah's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 8th October 2013 16:11
This is very true...many people put medical conditions down to affects of jinn or witchcraft and waste a lot of time and money down this avenue....even refusing to accept medical advice and medication.

There are many amils who are NOT authentic and just a very few handful in my opinion that are....but as a layperson even a learnered person would find it difficult to differentiate. May Allah protect us and safeguard our imaan.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+3 -0Agree x 2Ameen x 1
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,187
Brother
9,545
abu mohammed's avatar
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 8th October 2013 16:17

Quote:

Muslim scholars of the past recognized that some cases of apparent possession (i.e., madness/convulsions) were a result of biological imbalance. An example of this comes in the hadeeth reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas.

One day he said to his student, ‘Ataa ibn Abee Rabbaah, “Should I show you a woman from among the people of paradise?” ‘Ataa said, “Of course.” He said, “This black woman came to the Prophet (saw) and said, ‘Verily I have falling fits (usra‘u) and I get uncovered. Pray to Allaah for me.’ The Prophet (saw) said, ‘If you wish, be patient and you will have paradise, or if you wish I can pray to Allaah to cure you.’ She said, ‘I will be patient,’ then she added, ‘but I become uncovered, so pray to Allaah for me that I not get uncovered.’ So he prayed for her.”[1]

In this regard Ibn al-Qayyim stated:

Fits of madness [or epileptic seizures] are of two types: fits resulting from evil, earthly spirits [i.e., the jinn] and fits resulting from bad humors.[2] Doctors have spoken about the causes and remedies of the latter. Leading scholars and intellectuals acknowledge the occurrence of spirit-possession and do not attempt to treat it. They recognize that its treatment requires that noble transcendent spirits counter, neutralize, and expel the evil spirits. Hippocrates himself spoke on the matter at length in some of his books, wherein he mentioned some remedies for epileptic fits and then said, “These [medicines] are beneficial in the case of fits due to humors and other biological causes. As for fits resulting from the effects of spirits, these remedies are of no use.” Only ignorant doctors and those pseudo-intellectuals who consider heresy a virtue deny spirit-possession and its effects on the body of the insane. They have no evidence for their denial except their ignorance of its occurrence. There is nothing in the field of medicine which rejects it, while the senses and experience of people worldwide confirm it. Their ascribing it to the preponderance of some humors is correct in some instances, but not in all.”[3]

Ibn al-Qayyim went on to describe the biological causes. He said:

Regarding madness due to humors (akhlaat), it is a sickness which partially prevents the limbs from feeling, moving and straightening out. It is caused by a viscous, sticky humor partly blocking pores inside the brain, resulting in a fractional inhibition of sensory influence and movement within it and within the limbs. Or it could be from other causes. For example, it could be from the trapping of a viscid odor in the outlets of the spirit, or from the rising of bad gases to the brain from some of the organs…causing the brain to contract in order to ward off the pain. This is followed by convulsions and twitching in all the limbs. The man is not able to remain upright but falls down, and froth usually appears in his mouth. This illness is considered among the periodical sicknesses relative to the [short] time frame of its painful occurrence. It is also considered among the chronic illnesses relative to the long period of its presence and the difficulty of curing those afflicted, especially beyond the age of twenty-five. It is an illness of brain matter, and such a form of epilepsy is persistent. As Hippocrates said, “Epilepsy remains in such persons until death.”[4]

With regard to the causes of spirit-possession, Ibn al-Qayyim said, “Evil spirits mostly gain control of those having little religious inclination and those whose hearts and tongues faith has deserted; those whose souls are desolate of the remembrance of Allaah and of the formulas for strengthening the faith. When evil spirits meet a man who is isolated, weaponless and naked, they are easily able to attack him and overcome him.”[5]

Ibn Taymeeyah suggested the following three circumstances to be the main reason why jinn may possess humans:

1.      “The occasional possession of man by the jinn may be due to sensual desires on the part of the jinn…or even love, just as it may be among humans.”[6]

2.      “Demonic possession sometimes also occurs as a result of horseplay, jest or plain evil on the part of the jinn, just as evil and mischief occurs among the humans for similar reasons.”[7]

3.      “However, possession is most often a result of the jinn being angry because some wrong has been done to them. Thus, the jinn punish those who wronged them. For example, when humans accidentally harm them or hurt them by urinating on them, by pouring hot water on them, or by killing some of them, the jinn think that they have been intentionally harmed. Although humans may not realize what they have done, the jinn are by nature very ignorant, harsh and volatile in their behavior, so they may vengefully punish humans much more severely than they deserve.”[8]

Thus, in the view of Ibn Taymeeyah, possession may occur with relative frequency to practicing Muslims as well as to weak and non-practicing Muslims.

 

Notes:

[1] Sahih Al-Bukhari, vol. 7, pp. 376-377, no 555 and Sahih Muslim, vol. 4, p. 1365, no. 6245.

[2] Any fluid or semi-fluid substance in the body.

[3] Zaad al-Ma‘aad, pp. 67-69.

[4] At-Tibb an-Nabawee, p. 55.

[5] Zaad al-Ma‘aad, p. 69.

[6] Ibn Taymeeyah’s Essay on the Jinn, p. 31.

[7] Ibid., p. 32.

[8] Ibid., p.32.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Acacia's avatar
Unspecified
1,732
Sister
526
Acacia's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 8th October 2013 19:07
Waalaikumussalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu:

Quote:
Question 1:

Why does the Muslim community place everything at the doorsteps of Jinns and Black magic?

Non-Muslim community has similar problems, they acknowledge it learn to cope with it and live with them and live a fairly normal life. Many Muslims with these problems are not allowed in Mosques, not interacted with, labelled as crazy (and avoided)[/quote]

Because they do exist and non-Muslim communities (West) do not acknowledge them as part and parcel of life in duniya. Non-Muslims seem to be successful at coping and living with various difficulties because they've structured and ordered their lives in ways that let them get some temporary relief from various difficulties (numbing the pain their hearts feel).

  • Partner left you? No problem, just go down to the pub for a few drinks and pick-up a new partner.

  • Want to get away from the hustle-and-bustle, have a change of pace, go somewhere hot during the cold winter months? Hey, spend some hard-earned cash to fly to the Mexican Riviera, sun bathe, play some beach volleyball, have a blast and return to work refreshed and... tanned.

  • Busy day at work, now all you want to do is empty your mind and not think at all? Turn on the TV and spend a few hours watching the lives of others.

  • etc. etc. etc.


(I realize that didn't answer the question, but it does expand on the paragraph that follows it)


Quote:
Question 2:

If Ruqya, Quranic verses, and Dhikr is the answer to these issues then the same Surah Al-Fatiha is described is cure for everything so why do you take your family members to the Doctor and hospital for broken bones and injuries (just an example so don't get hung-up on the specifics)? Why not recite Surah Al-Fiatha on all ailments and shun Doctors?

Why are Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Councillors, Social workers avoided of can be substituted with Dhikr but physical ailments need treatment?[/quote]

Because they are the best cure for our spiritual hearts. No psychologist, psychiatrist, councillor, social worker or otherwise can deal with what the heart suffers 24/7. Most only operate between 8a.m. and 4p.m. and only on prior appointment. Most psychiatrists chalk everything down to chemical imbalances (which is worse than chalking everything up to the paranormal). Most don't have a clue about Islam and how life is ordered in Islam. Most are wrong about their assumptions about causes or are so convinced that they are right, they ignore all else. Most social workers are over-worked and subsequently quite careless in their duties.

In other words, no single or collective of humans can accomplish the task of being there for others 24/7, regardless of the gravity of the situation, know the situation inside and out, see what is coming ahead... this, ONLY Allah Ta'aala can do hence the importance of turning to Him in ways He has guided us to do.


[quote]Question 3:

We have so many brothers and sisters outside of a meaningful (emotional and physical) relationship don't you think that the mood swings and odd behaviour they exhibit has something to do with it, rather then Jinns and Black magic?


Yes, I do think that our perceptions and how we deal with our conditions have a lot to do with our moods, more-so than J and BM. We aren't meant to be alone (i.e. without human companionship); though insha'Allah we know we are never truly alone.

Imagine how difficult it is for people who start practicing later in life (either as reverts or born Muslim). They go through life, living a certain way, with a certain circle of friends and then they slam on the breaks when they realize the error in their ways, and change their direction completely... friends fall away, lifestyle changes completely, even family members and co-workers distance themselves. It is hard and no doubt has some impact on the person's moods.

[quote]Question 4:

Relationships have always and continue to break down and it could be just down to incompatibility between two people. Why does every relationship with a problem attributed to Jinns and Black magic?


I agree. Though some things could be attributed to J and BM. We just don't know so why not hit at the J and BM before breaking off a marriage - especially when children are involved.

Also, we are a little too fickle with our emotions and don't bear through hardships as we should; if only we could strive and struggle in our marriages just as we do with regards to our children. Again, not in all situations but it seems many these days.

~~~

It all boils down to where we put our trust. In medicine? In psychology? In relationships?

In Allah Ta'aala alone.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 11:33

Assalam 'Alaykum

(الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَا لَا يَقُومُونَ إِلَّا كَمَا يَقُومُ الَّذِي يَتَخَبَّطُهُ الشَّيْطَانُ مِنَ الْمَسِّ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا الْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ الرِّبَا ۗ وَأَحَلَّ اللَّهُ الْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ الرِّبَا ۚ فَمَنْ جَاءَهُ مَوْعِظَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ فَانْتَهَىٰ فَلَهُ مَا سَلَفَ وَأَمْرُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ ۖ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ) [Surat Al-Baqara : 275]

Point to be noted in this ayat: like that person who's senses are taken away by shaytaan's touch. (مِنْ شَرِّ الْوَسْوَاسِ الْخَنَّاسِ) [Surat An-Nas : 4]

(الَّذِي يُوَسْوِسُ فِي صُدُورِ النَّاسِ) [Surat An-Nas : 5]

(مِنَ الْجِنَّةِ وَالنَّاسِ) [Surat An-Nas : 6]

ِ From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),- who whispers into the hearts of Mankind, Amongst jinns and humans.

^^^^^ most mental conditions mentioned in the op are result of the interference of shayateen and sehr like depression. Depression is infact bombardment of wasawwis. Psychiatrists give medicine that just pacify ur brain and slows it down. The cause is still there.

Solution: Zikrullaah الشَّيْطَانُ يَعِدُكُمُ الْفَقْرَ وَيَأْمُرُكُمْ بِالْفَحْشَاءِ ۖ وَاللَّهُ يَعِدُكُمْ مَغْفِرَةً مِنْهُ وَفَضْلًا ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ The Evil one threatens you with poverty and bids you to conduct unseemly. Allah promiseth you His forgiveness and bounties. ^ cause of depression.

How does shaytaan threaten us? Waswas. Solution? Muraqabah of Allah's favors and forgiveness.

Now answers to the questions:

1) non muslims don't recognize this so they don't know thte solution. We have been told again and again by Allah, shaytaan is your open enemy! Another difference between them and us is like the difference between Taliban of Afghanistan and govt of Pakistan. Taliban cud either accept invasion of kufr and become beghairat or they cud fight. They chose to fight. Govt of pakistan preferred beghairti and doesn't see then problem as a problem.

2) Zikr is the cure for mental ailment that's why. There are people who say read falaq naas morning night ull be cured n no jadoo will affect u cause its in hadith. My question to the op: hadith say blackseeds are the cure to every disease but death. So why do u run to the hospital or doctor for physcial ailments? الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَتَطْمَئِنُّ قُلُوبُهُمْ بِذِكْرِ اللَّهِ ۗ أَلَا بِذِكْرِ اللَّهِ تَطْمَئِنُّ الْقُلُوبُ "Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find satisfaction. All mental disturbance is actually diseases of the heart. And Allah has already given the solution. 3&4: وَاتَّبَعُوا مَا تَتْلُو الشَّيَاطِينُ عَلَىٰ مُلْكِ سُلَيْمَانَ ۖ وَمَا كَفَرَ سُلَيْمَانُ وَلَٰكِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ كَفَرُوا يُعَلِّمُونَ النَّاسَ السِّحْرَ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَى الْمَلَكَيْنِ بِبَابِلَ هَارُوتَ وَمَارُوتَ ۚ وَمَا يُعَلِّمَانِ مِنْ أَحَدٍ حَتَّىٰ يَقُولَا إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ فِتْنَةٌ فَلَا تَكْفُرْ ۖ فَيَتَعَلَّمُونَ مِنْهُمَا مَا يُفَرِّقُونَ بِهِ بَيْنَ الْمَرْءِ وَزَوْجِهِ ۚ وَمَا هُمْ بِضَارِّينَ بِهِ مِنْ أَحَدٍ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَيَتَعَلَّمُونَ مَا يَضُرُّهُمْ وَلَا يَنْفَعُهُمْ ۚ وَلَقَدْ عَلِمُوا لَمَنِ اشْتَرَاهُ مَا لَهُ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنْ خَلَاقٍ ۚ وَلَبِئْسَ مَا شَرَوْا بِهِ أَنْفُسَهُمْ ۚ لَوْ كَانُوا يَعْلَمُون They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. ما يفرقون به بين المرء وزوجه

JazakAllahu Khayra

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,187
Brother
9,545
abu mohammed's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 12:24
Apologies, I'm trying to load the above post, but it just wont load for me to authorize. Not sure why at the moment.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,187
Brother
9,545
abu mohammed's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 12:41

Post from Dukhaan fixed. I had to remove the quote of Muadh in order to load the post. I believe the layout of thepost may have changed from it original format. Apologies.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 13:02
Please fix it abu muhammad atleast the answers to the questions.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
112
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 13:14

Anonymous wrote:
View original post

Negative.

Your post at best says that Jinn/Magic do play a role and nobody can deny it but to take a leap of faith and place every single problem at the doorstep of Jinn/Magic is a massive undertaking which your evidence neither proves nor requires me to believe.

Qur’aan and Sunnah talk about Seh’r and Jinns but it doesn’t mean that every single case is attributable to them (directly). There are people born with biological (or physiological)  issue or develop biological (or physiological) issues due to injury or illness that has nothing to do with Seh’r and Jinns.

If everything was down to Seh’r and Jinns then the Shariah would have clearly outlawed the science of medicine and yet we see that it hasn’t.

So the patient needs to be looked at holistically, the example of Taliban (of this and that) is irrelevant to the case. Furthermore yes Shaytaan does interfere and try to sow the seeds of discord in marriages but marriage can also breakdown because people are simply incompatible (to begin with) and yes Shaytaan can perhaps manipulate the differences.

In summary, if you have categorical proof that every illness of such kind is down to Seh’r and Jinns then please share it.

We neither deny Seh’r and Jinns nor deny that these matters do exist but we can’t attribute every single problem to them (and neither has Islamic Shariah).

May Allah (SWT) protect us all (Ameen).

Acacia wrote:
View original post

Your primary point is that attention should be focused upon Allah (SWT) and it cannot be argued with at all.

Your secondary point is that psychologist, psychiatrist, councillor, social worker or otherwise can’t deal with heart problems and are not available 24/7 is largely a red herring because of two reasons. Firstly, I am primarily discussing mental health here (not heart issues) , secondly the same argument can be made about Raqees, Shaykhs that they are also not available 24/7.

Your third and fourth points respectively are also turning to Allah (SWT) to protect us from our moods and Jinn, magic etc and again there is no dispute with that. Sister, the rest is your understanding and broad brushing of everyone dealing with their problems through drinking, it is not always the case but if you believe so (that’s fine) and you are entitled to your opinion. In my experience there are classes, counselling, Holidays, all sorts of other methods but I again agree with you is that that there is no emphasis or discussion of spirituality.

So all in all IF you are trying to point out the absence of Allah (SWT) and spirituality in western  systems then I can’t disagree with you Sister (Alhumdolillah).

The fundamental crux which you don’t appear to have disagreed with is that there could be biological or physiological reasons for mental health issues and (inherent) incompatibility between partners for relationship breakdown and not necessarily (always) Jinn, magic etc.

The point is that that Non-Muslims deal with anger, OCD, Autism, Asperger’s syndrome, toxic relationships as well and if these techniques don’t conflict with Qur’aan and Sunnah there is nothing wrong with using them.

I neither have an inherent mistrust of medicine nor of science  nor think that Islam is against it...if you do think that my Islamic understanding is incorrect please make me see it.

Looking to learn from your input and experience. 

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Agree x 1
back to top
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 13:21
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


Your whole post revovles around negating the point that was not mentioned by me that every single case is caused by shayateen/jinns/sehr. So your post is rendered to b a futile refutation.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,187
Brother
9,545
abu mohammed's avatar
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 13:34

Anonymous wrote:
View original post

I've tried to do what I can. I would really appreciate it if you could post as a member saving us plenty of time and effort.

I dont know what the original looked like so thats the best i could do.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
112
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 10th October 2013 13:42

Anonymous wrote:
View original post

Alhumdolillah my brother (sister) then we have nothing to differ.

All praise be to Allah (SWT).

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top