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Alleged Unconfirmed Sexual Assault at Jamea Al Kauthar

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 13:22
bro muadh...no need to get so emotional
as far as i know most hazrat X's and hazrat Y's (from UK) and elsewhere agree with Shaykh Thanwi ra and those that dont...well theres no compulsion on anyone to follow them

I was one of those who "disliked" your post (decided to just click on that option rather than reply as it seemed inappropriate to get into an argument at such a time) since the points you had mentioned were irrelevant at this time when they were more in need of du'a plus you had brought in hazrats and aapas from discussions elsewhere plus the topic title was changed afterward...altogether it just seemed in bad taste...sorry but has to be said

and yes aameen, may Allah protect our daughters...and sons from everything which is harmful
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 14:14
Hey bro muadh dont diss ye??? Im a graduate from one of the girls boarding school and SubahanAllah i cannot praise these institutes enough for their work, efforts, spiritual guidance and their teachings and much much more...how come people dont have a problem when sisters travel to other countries or even other places and towns which are over 48miles without a mehram?....normally when a girl/woman has a car people think its alright for her to drive over 48miles by herself or with other fellow sisters/mothers because she is an insured and experienced driver but nobody seems to raise the issue then about travelling without mehram....summat to think about innit.....
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 14:21

"ummi taalib" wrote:
bro muadh...no need to get so emotional as far as i know most hazrat X's and hazrat Y's (from UK) and elsewhere agree with Shaykh Thanwi ra and those that dont...well theres no compulsion on anyone to follow them I was one of those who "disliked" your post (decided to just click on that option rather than reply as it seemed inappropriate to get into an argument at such a time) since the points you had mentioned were irrelevant at this time when they were more in need of du'a plus you had brought in hazrats and aapas from discussions elsewhere plus the topic title was changed afterward...altogether it just seemed in bad taste...sorry but has to be said and yes aameen, may Allah protect our daughters...and sons from everything which is harmful

Asslamo Allaikum,

You are our respected Aapa and you can disagree, shout us down , throw Chappals at us and also ban us from speaking and that’s your right as an elder.

However, I am a Muslim and not Catholic so no POPE can change my religion.

  1. There is no mention in Qur'aan or Sunnah about Girls boarding Schools
  2. There is no mention in Hanafi Madhab about Girls boarding Schools
  3. There is no example in Islamic history about Girls boarding Schools
  4. There is no mention in the Ulamah & Mashaykh of Deoband about Girls boarding Schools, in fact there NEVER set anything like this up at all
  5. The Fatwa on the impermissability of this is clearly given by Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) in Ahsanul-Fatawa in clear blatant language

In the light of all of the above when there is NO TRACE OF PERMISSABILITY of this matter, you can't turn it into a difference of opinion when it clearly isn't, its a VIOLATION of Islamic Shariah.

As I asked you and every other Alimah on the badnwagon on SF long ago:

  1. Declare that you departing from Qur'aan or Sunnah
  2. Declare that you departing from Hanafi Madhab
  3. Declare that you departing from the way of Deobandi Ulamah & Mashaykh
  4. You are making a new Ijtehaad which is alien to the history of Islam and you may have British Ulamah who are capable of this Ijtehaad

AND THEN those who want can send their daughters to your institutes. 

Don't claim to follow the legacy of Deobandi Ulamah & Mashaykh and start something which doesn't exist even in South Africa!

So don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of sincere Muslims.

You can shout, dislike, disagree as much as you like BUT discuss the matter Academically so others can judge the shallowness of the matter themselves.

As far as the Sufees of a certain Darul-uloom are concerned, their daughters are travelling to Egypt without a Mahram and they are openly declaring these matters permissable so excuse us if we don't take their word as Daleel.

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 14:33

I am Sorry everyone but a few things really get me FIRED UP! Don't create differences of opinions in Islam where none exist...If someone wants to be a Modernist, Feminist, Secularist, whatever'ist go for it but don't destory my Deen in the process and don't lead my sons and daughters astray in the process!

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 14:39
YaAllah! Relax brother muadh! Youre entitled to your own opinion but dont you think you should just keep them to yourself? I mean it wasnt really necessary for you to voice it as it wasnt really a concern. Cant we all just agree to disagree?
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 16:00
wa'alaykumus salaam

as i said, calm down....i cannot say for anyone else but inshaAllah I am not declaring any of the following and I seek His refuge Who guides whom He wishes and misguides whom He wishes....just reading it brought up fear brother

Declare that you departing from Qur'aan or Sunnah
2. Declare that you departing from Hanafi Madhab
3. Declare that you departing from the way of Deobandi Ulamah & Mashaykh
4. You are making a new Ijtehaad which is alien to the history of Islam and you may have British Ulamah who are capable of this Ijtehaad


O ya and please note you do not know my personal view

BTW a "respected aapa" can disagree and even shout (by using capitals) but cannot throw chappals as her own PC may be damaged and cannot ban as she does not have authority
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 16:52
@muadh khan

HOW OFTEN DO YOU ACTUALLY SIT DOWN WITH YOUR DAUGHTERS, SISTERS AND MOTHERS TO TEACH THEM DEEN?

we live in a sociecty were most people life just go on working let alone having time to teach there family deen.
Those that do have time dont, there is very few that actually sit down and do teach deen to their families like the way the sahabas did but its very rare.
It through girls darul uloom like these that we have got female scholors around the world that can actually teach to ladies from there houses, witout having travel 1000s of miles. I know for a fact all the ulama in my area went boarding schools and through them now people can learn deen from without having to travel so far.

Its not nice of you trying make it sound like these girls boarding schools are a bad thing, when they are doing a brilliant job.

Also were in history does it say you can preach through the internet?? My point being as time goes theres different ways of spreading deen. Obvisouly the closer to the sunnah the better, but what we got we gotter make do with.

wsalam


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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 17:50
Instead of talking to alims online go to muftis, go to Hazrat shaykh Yunus saheb. Hazrat Talhya Khandalwi, Mufti Shabbir saheb, inshaAllah you will get understanding.

May Allah protect laymen from believing they have alot of understanding and ilm of the deen when they do not
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 18:04
May Allah protect us from being decepted that the ulama dont know the hanafi madhab
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 18:08
May Allah save us from forcing people to follow an opinion
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 18:44
Salaam. just received this message regarding the incident. the message is below as i have received it...


Re. Lancaster Muslim girls school. All 3 people have been released. The case was around 2 Aamils doing djeen elaj for 4 girls (at parents request) in presence of other students/ladies and 2 (muslim) lady observers. Complaint came from observers re. Hand being put on head by aamil while praying. As there were no victims (4 main girls interviewed said they were not assaulted and other girls/ witnesses interviewed were all fine when questioned), solicitor says there is no case, Alhamdolillah. Jamea thinking of suing the police re. false arrests/disproportionate response. Pls make duas it all blows over soon. As
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 19:39
Apologies for the delay in authorizing. I haven't seen the forum since this morning.

Having read everything here, I would like to say that I agree with brother Muadh.
What Muadh has done is gone to the point and everyone has overlooked the issue. What I would do is take you towards that same deductions but slowly and make you agree with me as I went along. Understand what points he has made and ask yourself the question "where is my evidence for doing so and so"

As hanafi, we are now picking and choosing according to our needs and not going by the Deen (to the letter).

Too many newly invented matters are creeping into the hanafi school. Now translate that into Arabic and you can see where we are heading. Yes there are ppositives but there's also a correct way.

We can name 500 men from the Salaf and khalaf who travelled the world to gain knowledge of the Deen and spread it. Can anyone name me 5 women from the Salaf or khalaf who also travelled the world and did the same on her own?

@admin, this topic needs to be split and remain on the main forum.

Jazakallahu khair.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 19:50
If only people knew about Mufti Shabbir sahebs knowledge in the a hanafi madhab annd ilm in general,

Hazrat Shaykh Mufti Shabeer has memorized the entire Saheeh al Muslim, with its chains, that is almost 4,000 ahadeeth from only Muslim. Everyone defers their Fatwa and rulings in masail and hadeeth to Mufti Shabeer. Shaykh al-Muhaddith Yunus Jonpuri db himself refers to Mufti Shabeer as a exceptionally qualified teacher of Hadeeth.

Shaykh Yunus once said in a gathering that there are only a few people in England upon whom he has 100% confidence in their teaching bukhari 1) Mufti Shabeer 2) Shaykh Ayub Surti 3) Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 19:59

"Anonymous" wrote:
Instead of talking to alims online go to muftis, go to Hazrat shaykh Yunus saheb. Hazrat Talhya Khandalwi, Mufti Shabbir saheb, inshaAllah you will get understanding. May Allah protect laymen from believing they have alot of understanding and ilm of the deen when they do not [/quote]

[quote="Anonymous"]May Allah protect us from being decepted that the ulama dont know the hanafi madhab

  1. Since the "Ulamah" who are following this opinion which DID NOT dawn upon any Hanafi Alim including Hazrat (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) it shouldn't be too hard to prove it to anyone?
  2. Go ahead , please
  • Did every Hanafi from Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) all the way to establishment of Darul-uloom Deoband didn't know the Hanafi Madhab because they didn't think of this?
  • Did Hazrat (Maulana) Qasim Nanotwi (RA) since the establishment of Darul-uloom Deobandi not know the Hanafi Madhab because he didn't think of this?
  • Did Hazrat (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi (RA) since the establishment of Darul-uloom Deobandi not know the Hanafi Madhab because he didn't think of this?
  • Did Hazrat (Maulana) Shaykhul-Hind Mahmmodul-Hasan (RA) since the establishment of Darul-uloom Deobandi not know the Hanafi Madhab because he didn't think of this?
  • Did Hazrat (Maulana) Shaykhul-Islam Hussain Ahmed Madani (RA) since the establishment of Darul-uloom Deobandi not know the Hanafi Madhab because he didn't think of this?
  • Did Hazrat (Maulana) Anwar Shaha Kashmiri (RA) since the establishment of Darul-uloom Deobandi not know the Hanafi Madhab because he didn't think of this?
  • Did Hazrat (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) since the establishment of Darul-uloom Deobandi not know the Hanafi Madhab because he didn't think of this?

So now tell me who knows the Hanafi Madhab?

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2013 21:15
Anonymous wrote:
If only people knew about Mufti Shabbir sahebs knowledge in the a hanafi madhab annd ilm in general,

Hazrat Shaykh Mufti Shabeer has memorized the entire Saheeh al Muslim, with its chains, that is almost 4,000 ahadeeth from only Muslim. Everyone defers their Fatwa and rulings in masail and hadeeth to Mufti Shabeer. Shaykh al-Muhaddith Yunus Jonpuri db himself refers to Mufti Shabeer as a exceptionally qualified teacher of Hadeeth.

Shaykh Yunus once said in a gathering that there are only a few people in England upon whom he has 100% confidence in their teaching bukhari 1) Mufti Shabeer 2) Shaykh Ayub Surti 3) Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq



That doesn't mean anything...I know a final year student in SA, that has memorised 8,000 hadeeth...so whats your point...go into the arab world and you'll find bigger guns....

so please stop name dropping and stick to facts and fatawa.
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