Prayer of a Hanafi behind another Imam

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2013 23:25

This is from those who wipe over sock any socks. They claim to follow the strongest opinions, yet it is NOT from the 4 accepted schools of thoughts.

This is from those who claim that their methods are closest to Imam Ahmad.

Quote:

The strongest opinion in this regards is anything that is worn over the feet and is classified as 'socks,' whether they be thin or thick, leather or cotton, see through or not as this is the meaning of 'jawraab'.

So how can we say that they are following Imam Ahmad and our salah would be valid because they follow an acceptable school. This is in total contradiction to the Fiqh of Imam Ahmad.

Wallahu alum.

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2013 23:34

Asslamo Allaikum,

I am completely lost as I don't know what is being quoted from and on whose authority. The conditions of the Hanbali Madhab were given previously clearly. Moreover following Hanbali Madhab doesn't mean following Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA) just like following Hanafi Madhab doesn't mean following Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) exclusively or following Shaf'ae Madhab doesn't mean following Imam Shaf;ae (RA) exclusively.

Anyways I am not an expert on Hanbali Madhab so I will bow out of the conversation and the blog wasn't to discuss and dissect whether other Madhahib are being followed or not, if you say that they are not being followed then that's fine.

Jazakullah Khairun

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2013 23:43

Jawrab [a regular sock]

There are mixed views amongst the jurists (Fuqah�) regarding the permissibility of wiping regular socks whilst making wudhu. It is important to note that the narrations pertaining to wiping regular socks are all weak (Dha'�f) and hence cannot be used to overturn or modify the directive of the Qur'�n.
Abu D�wōd has recorded in his Sunan: Mugh�ra ibn Shu'ba reported, "Allah's Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم performed wudhu and wiped his jawrabs and na'ls." [159]
He then writes, "`Abdur Rahman ibn Mahdi would avoid relating this had�th because the popular report from Mugh�ra is that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم wiped his khuffs. This account has also been reported by Abu Musa Al Ash'ar� however its transmission chain is disconnected and weak."
Surprisingly Tirmidh� has also recorded Mugh�ra ibn Shu'ba's report on the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم wiping his jawrab [had�th no.99] in his J�me' with the exact same transmission chain as Abu D�wōd and has labelled it as authentic. Regarding this Shaykh 'Abdur Rahman Al Mubarakpuri writes in Tuhfat Al Ahwadhi, the commentary of J�me' Tirmidh�, "Bayhaq� has recorded this had�th of Mugh�ra's and has said, "This is a Munkar had�th. Sufy�n al Thawri, `Abdur Rahman ibn Mahdi, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Yaĥy� ibn Mo'een, `Ali ibn Madeeni and Muslim ibn Hajj�j have all labelled this had�th as weak (Dha'�f)."
He further states, "Nawaw� said, "The scholars of had�th unanimously agree upon its weakness, hence Tirmidh�'s assertion of it being authentic is unacceptable."
In respect to the ruling on wiping regular socks, Imam Muhammad writes, "As for wiping socks, it is permissible to wipe them provided they are thick and have leather soles."
`All�ma Abu Bakr al Sarakhsi writes in the commentary of this statement, in Al Mabsōt,
"It is impermissible to wipe them [during wudhu] if they are thin (such as sports socks and dress socks)...
According to Imam Abu Han�fa, it is impermissible to wipe them if they are thick and do not have leather soles. This is because it is not possible to walk in them continuously [without tearing] while on a journey. Hence they will share the same ruling as thin socks.
According to Imam Abu Yusuf (another distinguished student of Imam Abu Han�fa) and Imam Muhammad, it is permissible to wipe thick socks that do not have leather soles.
It is reported that Imam Abu Han�fa wiped his socks during his illness and said to his visitors, "I have done what I have been preventing people from doing."
They perceived this as a retraction of his previous view."
Hence according to the Hanafi School of Jurisprudence it is permissible to wipe socks that are thick to the extent that one can walk a considerable distance in them without tearing.
Socks manufactured by Sealskinz and Gortex fit this criterion and hence can be wiped during wudhu according to the conditions outlined for khuffs. Regular sports socks and dress socks do not fit the criterion and hence cannot be wiped.
Jarmōq [overshoes/galoshes]

Imam Muhammad writes, "It is permissible to wipe jarmōqs [that are worn] on top of khuffs." [Al Mabsōt, Sarakhsi]
Belal reported, "The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would go out to relieve himself. [When he would finish] I would take water to him and he would perform wudhu and wipe his turban and mōqs." [Abu D�wōd: 153]
In conclusion it is impermissible to wipe the shoes or socks that are commonly worn today as they do not fall under any one of the aforementioned categories.
As for women wiping their headscarf in place of wiping their head, Imam Muhammad writes, "A woman cannot wipe her headscarf [while performing wudhu]." [Al Mabsōt, Sarakhsi]
`All�ma Abu Bakr al Sarakhsi writes in the commentary of this statement, in Al Mabsōt,
"This is due to `�'isha's had�th in which it is reported that she put her hand under her headscarf and wiped her head [while performing wudhu]. She then remarked, "This is what Allah's Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم instructed me to do."
If however a woman wipes her headscarf and the wetness [of her hand] penetrates to her head to the extent that a quarter of her head becomes wet, it will be sufficient for her."
And Allah Knows Best.
Answered by Shaykh Omar Subedar

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2013 23:47

There is one Hadith in Abu Dawud regarding Masah alal Jawrabayn. However, even Imam Abu Dawud narrated this Hadith and said, 'Abdul Rahman ibn Mahdi would not narrate this Hadith, as this is narrated from Mughirah ibn Shu'ba' and what is well known in the Hadith of Mughirah is that, "He wiped over Khuffayn (leather socks)." (In other words, Jawrabayn here is Wahm (mistake)). Imam Abu Dawud says, 'This Hadith is also narrated from Abu Musa, however the chain is not Muttasil (connected) nor Qawiyy (strong)'.
(Abu Dawud Pg22)
The great Salafi scholar Sheikh Abdul-Rahman Al Mubarakpuri writes in Tuhfatul Ahwazi Sharhut-Tirmizi, "(Imam Tirmizi has classed this Hadith as 'Sahih') however, Bayhaqi has narrated the Hadith of Mughirah and said that the Hadith is Munkar. Sufyaan Thauri has classed it Dhaeef and so has Abdur-Rahman ibn Mahdi, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Yahya ibn Maeen, Ali ibnul Madini and Muslim ibn Hajjaj. What is actually recorded from Mughirah is the Hadith of wiping over leather socks. Imam Nawawi رضي الله عنه has mentioned that all the above Muhadditheen, had they been alone, they would have been put ahead of Imam Tirmizi رضي الله عنه.
Another point is that Jarh supersedes Ta'deel and two narrators in this chain are Dhaeef, Abu Qays al-Awadi and Hudhail ibn Shurahbil.
Sheikh Mubarakpuri writes there are two other Ahadith from Ibn Mas'ood رضي الله عنه and Bilal رضي الله عنه but they are both Dhaeef and unsuitable as evidence, thereafter he mentions the chain of both the Ahadith and their weaknesses.
He concludes saying:
والحاصل انه ليس فى باب المسح على الجوربين حديث مرفوع صحيح خال عن الكلام هذا ما عندي والله اعلم
The conclusion is, that with regards to wiping over cotton socks, there is no Marfoo' Hadith which could be classed Saheeh and free from dispute.
(Tuhfatul Ahwazi pg 333 vol 1)
He further states that some people who allow wiping over socks put forward in their argument the Hadith Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal narrates in his Musnad Ahmed from Thawban رضي الله عنه which mentions wiping over 'Tasakheen' thus they say that 'Tasakheen' means cotton socks. Sheikh Mubarakpuri writes, "This Hadith is also not suitable for use as evidence because Raashid ibn Sa'd did not hear from Thawbaan so there is a disconnection in the chain. Secondly, the scholars of Lughat have said that Tasakheen are socks made from leather. Imam Ibnul-Atheer quotes in his Nihayah under the letter taa'
التساخين هى الخفاف ولا واحد لها من لفظها وقيل واحدها تسخين و تسخان و تسخن
"Tasakheen are leather socks"
(Tuhfatul Ahwazi pg 339 vol 1)
Shaykh ibn Baz رضي الله عنه has also written in his Fatawa, "It is not permissible to wipe over them" (thin socks). (fatawa islamiyya pg102).
For reference for all four mazahib see text below from al fiqhul islami wa adilatuhu vol 1 pg 498:
قال ابو حنيفة لا يجوز المسح على الجوربين الا ان يكونا مجلدين او منعلين لان الجورب ليس معنى الخف لانه لا يمكن مواظبة المشى فيه الا اذا كانا منعلا وهو محمل الحديث المخبر للمسح على الجورب...الا انه رجع الى قول الصاحبين في اخر عمره...واشترط المالكية كابي حنيفة ان يكونا الجوربان مجلدين ظاهرهما وباطنهما حتى يمكن المشي فيهما عادة... واجاز الشافعية المسح على الجورب بشرطين احدهما ان يكون صفيقا لا يشف بحيث يمكن متابعة المشي عيله الثانى ان يكون منعلا فان اختل احد الشرطين لم يجز المسح عليه... واباح الحنابلة المسح على الجورب بالشرطين المذكورين في الخف وهما الاول ان يكون صفيقا لا يبدو منه شئ من القدم الثانى ان يمكن متابعة المشى فيه...
Therefore, if you are a follower of any of the four mazaahib, it would be Haram for you to wipe over thin cotton socks. Any Salah preformed by wiping over thin socks will not be valid and that Salah will have to be repeated after washing the feet.
Consequently, Salah behind an Imam who has wiped over thin socks will not be allowed. Therefore, Salah should only be lead by a person who has washed his feet according to the command of the Holy Quran or wiped over khuffayn according to the Mutawatir Ahadeeth.
In the verse of the Quran, Allah orders the washing of 3 limbs and the wiping of only the head. Therefore, if someone only wipes his arms or face, his wudu is not valid. The same applies to foot wiping - and foot wiping is done only by the Rawaafidh, Shias.
We have been forced to write this fatwa as we have been informed and seen with our own eyes people wiping over thin socks in wudhu areas where there are puddles of water. Socks get wet on the soles and with these socks, they enter the masjid, wetting the carpet wherever they tread. This makes the carpet smell and others would have to prostrate at that place where they have wetted. If these people had taken their socks off, washed their feet and then wiped them on the mats provided outside the wudhu area, this would not have happened.
Furthermore, Salaah is the most important Ibadah. It should be performed in such a manner that it is correct according to the opinion of all the Ulema. That is why we say that even though Salat alan nabiyy during the final Tashaahhud is only masnoon according to the majority of the mazhabs, however Imam Shafi'i رضي الله عنه has said that it is Fard, so one should not neglect it. Similarly, Ta'adile Arkaan (exercising composure during postures) is not fardh according to the Hanafi Madhab. However, according to the other mazhabs, it is fardh, therefore Salaah should be performed with great calmness.
The Prophet (Saw) has said, "Allah loves the effects of worship on his servants." (Mishkaat). For example, the smell appearing due to fasting is more beloved to Allah than Musk. Similarly, any suffering due to washing the limbs in Wudhu is beloved to Allah. Jannat has been surrounded by things that a person dislikes, so one should be cautious about all the facts of Shariah.
If you are at work, on a plane or in a difficult situation, and need to complete Wudhu quickly, a single wash will suffice. Washing 3 times is Sunnah and better, but it isn't fardh, so it can be left out when needed.
Those people who find it inconvienient taking off their shoes and socks every time they perform Wudhu, have 2 alternatives to the normal washing of the feet.
Alternative 1: Wear leather socks.
Alternative 2: Wear Khuff-like waterproof socks which go above the ankles, produced by companies like Sealskinz and Gortex. These socks meet all the criteria of being wudu-wipable, and therefore are permissible to wear and wipe over during Wudhu. They cost about �20 a pair and can be bought on the internet.
Please note: The conditions of Masah alal khuff:
They should be worn after performing full wudhu including washing of the feet.
They should not be torn, if they have holes more than three small toes then masah on them will not be correct.
The timing of masah is one day and one night for a muqeem and three days and three nights for a musafir.
The timing does not start from the moment you make wudhu or when you wear them but rather from the moment your wudhu breaks e.g. if you washed the feet for the wudhu of fajar then you wore the socks thereafter, your wudhu broke at 10:00am then you will be allowed to wipe over them until 10:00am the following day, then at that time your masah limit and wudhu will be finished and you will have to do wudhu all over again, washing the feet.
Masah can only be done after hadath asghar (minor impurity). Therfore, if janabat (major impurity) takes place the khuffayn will have to be taken off and the feet will be washed.
Please note: The terminological difference between wiping (masah) and washing (ghasl).
Masah is just wiping a wet hand over the area. For example, passing your hand across part or all of your head, or wiping the top of the Khuff.
On the other hand, Ghasl is wetting the whole limb, in such a way that some drops of water fall off the limb. Thus, wetting the whole arm or foot with a single cupped handful of water is sufficient, and the Fardh of a single wash will be completed.
قَوْلُهُ : أَيْ إسَالَةُ الْمَاءِ إلَخْ ) قَالَ فِي الْبَحْرِ : وَاخْتُلِفَ فِي مَعْنَاهُ الشَّرْعِيِّ ، فَقَالَ أَبُو حَنِيفَةَ وَمُحَمَّدٌ : هُوَ الْإِسَالَةُ مَعَ التَّقَاطُرِ وَلَوْ قَطْرَةً حَتَّى لَوْ لَمْ يُسِلْ الْمَاءَ بِأَنْ اسْتَعْمَلَهُ اسْتِعْمَالَ الدُّهْنِ لَمْ يَجُزْ فِي ظَاهِرِ الرِّوَايَةِ ، وَكَذَا لَوْ تَوَضَّأَ بِالثَّلْجِ وَلَمْ يَقْطُرْ مِنْهُ شَيْءٌ لَمْ يَجُزْ . عَنْ أَبِي يُوسُفَ هُوَ مُجَرَّدُ بَلِّ الْمَحَلِّ بِالْمَاءِ سَالَ أَوْ لَمْ يَسِلْ .رد المحتار951
Note that even under normal circumstances, one should not use an excessive quantity of water. The Prophet (saw)

used no more than a small bowlful of water for Wudhu. In the hadith this has been narrated as one Mudd equal to nearly 775ml/655g.
Once Rasulullah (saw)

passed by one sahabi who was using excessive water during wudhu so he said, "O sa'd! Do not exceed the limit!" he asked, "Are there any limits in wudhu which are exceeded? He replied, "Yes, even if you are on a flowing river."
Once Rasullulah (saw)

was riding, he passed by a river and he felt like performing wudhu so he dismounted, took a bowl, filled it from the river and performed wudhu. There was some water left in the bowl so he went back and poured it inside the river saying, "maybe Allah will benefit some bird, animal or human being through this amount."
Written by: Shaykh Abdur-Rahim
Attested by: Mufti Tahir Sahib, Mufti Ibrahim Raja sahib, and Moulana Nawshaad Sahib

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 00:23

Question
Assalamualaikum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuh,

Respected shaykh abdur raheem (db),

I am concerned and confused with a matter, which I would like you to make it clear.

We pray in our school for dhur salah, what the matter is that people do wudhu on the regular socks which I know it is wrong, I gave one of the teachers the fatwa of Mufti Taqi Usmani (db), but no changes were made. I asked another mufti about this, he told me all four madhab are agreed that masah can not be done on these type of socks, which is also what Mufti Taqi Usmani's fatwa explains.

I stopped going there, since I am afraid that if the person leading the salah has done masah on the socks then those who are the muqtadi will not be valid.

Now when I stopped going, there are some of my friends who tell me to come to prayer, and I tell my reasons that masah on these regular socks are not permissible, which is accepted by all schools of thoughts. But what I get in reply is that they think I am making excuses to leave salah, or they may say that look I have a beard and start saying shave your beard, sometimes they say that those scholars who I looked at the fatwa are extremist and hence I am extremist aswell.

This went on and on, I stayed quite and kept constantly telling the reasons. One of the friend told me we will ask the local Imam ('alim from egypt) about this matter, who I believe is shafi'e. So we did went to the Imam and asked him, he said all the four schools of thoughts allow doing masah over the socks, as long the conditions are :

- the sock is thick enough not to show the skin (nakedness) of the legs.

- You do wudhu before wearing the socks, and you can keep them on for 24 hours, if you go toilet in the period you can do masah on the socks. Even if the socks have holes you can do masah on this period. All four schools of thoughts even hanafi agree on this.

I got really concerned with this and raised confusion. I told my big brother which he called another friend to confirm on this, the friend said he asked the Imam of his masjid who is yemeni and said that the Imam said it is permissible. The friend further told my brother that there is a fatwa made in saudi that the scholars agree on. Here I am confused are the scholars forced or is it truly they think it is correct?

Now I don't know what to do, I told my friend I have looked over fatwas and they are saying that it is not allowed to do masah on these socks, whereas the shaykh(imam of my masjid) said it is allowed, even I looked at other fatwas in such extend that sources were provided by the mufti who wrote the fatwa that it is not permissible by all four schools of thoughts.

Now my friend says that who will you follow the shaykh or the fatwa from the internet, I just told him that I will show him the fatwa, but what I am not sure is that is it the right thing to do, I do not know what should be done on this matter, where such a big 'alim like mufti taqi usmani is saying that it is not permissible, and there is arab scholars who say it is permissible. (the area where I live is in gulf area).

Could you please guide me in this matter and explain what should be done?

Answer
Walaikumussalam w w

Mufti Taqi Sahib's fatwa is the more correct one. Because these socks we wear do not fall under the category of thick socks.

Thickness does not mean just covering the skin, because the skin is covered by any material, thick or thin. What it means is that it is so thick that it becomes like a khuff ie leather sock.

This is a museebat of the Arab scholars; they lack profound knowledge and give fatwas based on their own logic and without keeping in mind the explanation of the Salafe saaliheen.

Please see our fatwa on this site regarding masah on cotton socks.

Fatwas should not be taken from
Internet when you know nothing about the fatwa issuer. When you know that person only speaks Haq, like mufti Taqi usmani, then you should give them preference over others who lack that in depth knowledge.

If you know for certain that an imam has done mash on thin cotton socks, Avoid praying Salah behind such stubborn Imams. Pray on your own or become an imam and do your own Jama'at.
www.tafseer-raheemi.com/q707-masah-over-cotton-socks-some...

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 00:27

Im aware the two previous fatwa are similar I was just tryn to show the firmness of the issue Allahu musta'aan

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 09:40

Asslamo Allaikum,

I apologise but over half of the posts in this thread have absolutely NO RELEVANCE to the subject which is: "Prayer of a Hanafi behind another Imam"

In order to try to focus attention to the subject at hand, lets drop the issue of Mas'ah on socks for a moment and instead discuss a Hanafi praying Wit'r in Haram

If you have to digress from the subject completely then discuss Hanafi praying Wit'r in Haram as at least it won't be a hypothetical situation full of assumptions.

Jazakullah Khairun

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 10:58

According to this fatwa, we shouldn't,

darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView...

And according to this fatwa, we CAN without doing Salaam in the second rakaat.

darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView...

Many other fatwas say that we can follow the Imam.

Mufti Taqi Usmani says it is allowed and he is also known to offer his witr behind such an Imam in the Haram.

(apologies for the socks, its just a personal issue and I wanted to make my self clear, the quotes were from salafi scholars who came to this site to debate with us. As I said earlier, I would pray behind an Imam with no issues as long as his aqeedah was sound and his wudhu was done according to his school)

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 11:13

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know.

Rumsfeld

Let the sin be on the head of the Imam.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 20:47

"abu mohammed" wrote:

According to this fatwa, we shouldn't, darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView... And according to this fatwa, we CAN without doing Salaam in the second rakaat. darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView... Many other fatwas say that we can follow the Imam. Mufti Taqi Usmani says it is allowed and he is also known to offer his witr behind such an Imam in the Haram. (apologies for the socks, its just a personal issue and I wanted to make my self clear, the quotes were from salafi scholars who came to this site to debate with us. As I said earlier, I would pray behind an Imam with no issues as long as his aqeedah was sound and his wudhu was done according to his school)

Asslamo Allaikum,

No need to apologise and lets discuss this for a second.

There are loads of Hanafees who don't pray Wit'r in Haram at all so they spend thousands to go to the house of Allah (SWT) and then deprive themselves of Wit'r Jamaat, fair enough!
There are loads of Hanafees who do pray Wit'r in Haram and do what the Imam does

Explain to me how this third option works?

You don't Salam after second Rakaat
Wait for the Imam to start 3 Rakaat
Stand straigtht up

How is that following the Imam because the Imam broke his prayer after 2? If you can please ask Ulamah and explain to us this hybrid option of making Wit'r when the Imam has finished broken off and Muqtadi carries on.

And give one example from the history of Islam where Muslims prayed like this.

Here is an example where the Shaf'ae Imam is sticking to his Madhab and the Salah of Hanafi Muqtadi is Makrooh if the Imam doesn't compensate for the Hanafi

Jazakullah Khairun

P.S: Can you now see that continuing to discuss Mas'ah on socks is just a simple answer! What is the solution? To have four Imams leading four (4) Jamaats in Haram or at least 2 Jamaats a Hanafi and Non-Hanafi (because nobody else has a problem).

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2013 23:19

Witr Prayer Behind An Imam Who Seperates the Three Raka'aat

Answered by Shaykh Yusuf Badat
Question:

Being a follower of the Quran & Sunnah according to the Hanafi methodology, I perform the witr prayer in three raka'aats, two sittings, with the concluding salams at the end of the three raka'aats. I am planning Umrah in Ramadan and was wondering if my witr prayer would be valid behind an imam who performs the witr prayer in such a way where there are two sets of salams in the three raka'aats, one set after the second raka'ah, and the other at the end of the third raka'ah. Would I have to repeat the witr prayer for it to be valid?
Answer:

Jazak Allah for contacting the Mathabah Foundation for your query. Masha Allah, on your upcoming Umrah trip, during the blessed month of Ramadan.
In response to your concern, kindly note that the differences of opinion amongst the reliable jurists, are not that of truth and falsehood. Rather they are simply differences of preference and correctness; hence it would be permissible to follow an Imam (in salah) who differs in the furooaat (minor matters of deen). One can perform the prayer in the same manner as how such an imam would be leading the prayer. There would be no need to repeat the witr prayer or perform separately, as I personally have seen some people do.
The great Hanafi jurist and commentator of the Glorious Quran, Imam Abu Bakr Al Jassas Al Razi has permitted a Hanafi to follow a Shafie Imam, who performs the witr prayer with fasl (separation in the three raka'aats). (See Nawaazil Fiqhiyyah Muaasirah)
Imam Ibn Al Humaam states, "The Hanafi following behind one who conducts salams at the conclusion of two raka'aats in witr, is permissible; he is also permitted to perform with him the remainder (one raka'ah). This is because the imam (leading), according to his fiqh, has not exited the salah by the salam". (Fath Al Qadeer, Al Bahr Al Raaiq)
The Prophet (pbuh) stated, "The imam (who leads the prayer) is responsible" (Sunan Al Kubra)

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2013 00:29

Abu Taalib Deobandi wrote:

Imam Ibn Al Humaam states, "The Hanafi following behind one who conducts salams at the conclusion of two raka'aats in witr, is permissible; he is also permitted to perform with him the remainder (one raka'ah). This is because the imam (leading), according to his fiqh, has not exited the salah by the salam". (Fath Al Qadeer, Al Bahr Al Raaiq)

This here is perfect, the bit at the bottom makes perfect sense too. Just like in any salah, if by accident one was to do salaam but didn't utter another word, he could continue with his salah and complete it as normal with sajdah sahwa. And since he is following the Imam, there is no sajdah sahwa on him.

Although, what I do with regard to the Dua is keep my arms/hands folded and not raise them like one would do in normal Dua.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2013 01:19

:) Masha Allah

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2013 17:38

"abu mohammed" wrote:

This is from those who wipe over sock any socks. They claim to follow the strongest opinions, yet it is NOT from the 4 accepted schools of thoughts. This is from those who claim that their methods are closest to Imam Ahmad.

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So how can we say that they are following Imam Ahmad and our salah would be valid because they follow an acceptable school. This is in total contradiction to the Fiqh of Imam Ahmad. Wallahu alum.

Asslamo Allaikum,

The Fatwa of our dear beloved Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (RA) says:

...So he has indeed mentioned of the other opinion and even said that a group of ulama have that view. But at the same time said that the Assahh is that consideration is of the Muqtadi...

So there is a group of Hanafi Ulamah who consider it perfectly permissable and valid for a Hanafi to pray behind another Imam.

Jazakullah Khairun

Not pray behind the Imam of another Madhab
Butcher their prayers and second guess the intention of the Imam (the whole method ofcourse fails if the Imam just prays 1 Rakaat btw!)

Again if some examples from the earliest generations of the Muslims can be given where they either refused to pray behind each other or butchered their prayers in a specific manner.

I still strongly believe that these Fatwaas are discussing hypothetical situations and I can't imagine that Muslims in history did things like this otherwise in countries like Egypt with 50/50 Hanafi/Shaf'ae split we would have 2 Jamaats for 1400 years or butchered prayers.

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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 5th April 2013 16:19

Ageeb, yesterday I met a salafi to whom one brother was trying to explain how if he wanted to lead salah, he should just wash his feet instead of wiping, in order to maintain unity and to keep everyone happy.

Boy did that get him started. Anyway to cut it short, he mentioned how in beshti zewar it is mentioned that if you walk on grass with socks then your masah is complete and thus wudhu done. He used this as evidence to support that even "deobandi" scholars permit wiping on normal socks. Me and the brother were both in a rush so we left him shortly after that. After reaching home I checked beshti zewar and found what he had said was an absolute lie and deception. the masla he mentioned is in beshti zewar but it clearly refers to LEATHER socks, subhanAllah may Allah protect the ummah from this fitna.

Lesson: Dont be intimidated by the seemingly over confidence of these brothers, if they give these random quotes then demand visual evidence immediately. Best is not to even engage these brothers, if they engage you just read taawuz and leave.

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Prayer of a Hanafi behind another Imam

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