Start of Fast (Suhoor) Angle: "Whole Islamic world" vs Hizbul-Ulamah

Asslamo Allaikum,

1. There were NEVER any Deobandi Ulamah in the entire world who disagreed with 18 degrees (for Suhoor i.e. closing fast) *
2. There are NO Isamic organisations in the world who call for any angle less then 17.5

Hizbul-Ulamah are on their own with their prayer timetable in the entire world and directly responsible for making the British Muslims continuing to eat when the fast has actually started! As long as British Muslims can live with this information that they are ALONE in the world and no Islamic organisation or major Scholar backs their fasting times and committed to answering Allah (SWT) on the day of judgement that's fine, our job is to provide the information.

Jazakullah Khairun

*That leaves us with two half quoted (clutching at straws) arguments and here are both of them clarified...

Clutching at straws argument 1:

There is ONLY ONE Deobandi Mufti in the entire world who has an opinion that Fajar starts at 15 degrees and it was Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) as quoted in Ahsanul-Fatawa. Here is the Fatwa from their Darul-uloom circulated on 12th of July (like every year) by Shaykh (Mufti) Sultan Alam email ([email protected]) to verify.

This Fatwa is endorsed by them and Darul-uloom Karachi (i.e. Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi & Rafi Usmani (HA)):

Jamia-tur-Rasheed and Darul-uloom korangi, Karachi, both institutes recommend that it is better to stop Suhoor at the time of 18 degrees and Make Azan and Fajr Prayer according to 15 degrees time.” Following emailing may be useful.

رمضان المبارک کی آمد کے ساتھ ہی کثرت سے یہ سوال پوچھا جاتا ہے کہ فجر کا وقت کیا ہے؟ مختصر جواب درج ِ ذیل ہے اور خاطرخواہ تفصیل منسلک مکاتبت میں ہے:
’’جامعۃ الرشید اور دارالعلوم کورنگی کراچی، دونوں ادارے بالاتفاق فجر کے وقت کے بارے میں یہ مشورہ دیتے ہیں کہ بہتر یہ ہے کہ سحری 18 درجہ کے وقت کے مطابق بند کردی جائے اور فجر کی اذان و نماز 15 درجہ کے وقت کے مطابق پڑھی جائیں۔ واللہ اعلم بالصواب

Clutching at straws argument 2:

Asslamo Allaikum,

Once you have made up your point in following the rest of the Islamic world on 18 degrees, the rest is very simple (for UK Muslims):

1. Visit Her Majesty's Nautical Almanac
2. Click "Accept" and say Thank You
3. Click on Prayers on the left
4. Select your city i.e. London
5. In column 1 select "Astronomical twilight / Sun's depression 18° 00'"
6. Click ok
   1. The first Twilight = Subh Sadiq
      1. Where you see ** ** it means that Fajar doesn't occur at 18 degree
   2. Shadow 1 = Shaf'ae Asar Time
   3. Shadow 2 = Hanafi Asar Time
   4. The last Twilight = Isha
      1. Where you see ** ** it means that Esha doesn't occur at 18 degree

What to do when Fajar/Esha doesn't occur at 18 degrees:

• Using the Last Times: This method is to pray Maghrib after sunset, Esha at the last time that Esha entered at, and Fajr at the last time Fajr started at until sunrise.
• Nearest City: This method requires the following of the nearest city at which the phenomena is not occurring. In UK, the nearest city is Avignon in France. Regents Park Mosque followed this method until June 2011.
• ½ Night: This method involves splitting the night into halves. Maghrib is prayed on time, and the Esha is prayed before half of the night, and the second half of the night is for Fajr.
• 1/3 Night: This method allows the first third for Maghrib, the next third for Esha and the last third for Fajr
• 1/7 Night: This method splits the night into seven parts, with the first for Fajr, the last for Fajr and the five remaining parts for Esha.
• Makkah Times: Another method is to follow the initial land of Islam, Makkah, and the timings that are used there. This is the method that has been used in the northern most Mosque of the world in Norway, where they suffer from 24 hour day during the summer months.
• Esha and Maghrib together, Fajr near Sunrise: This method allows the combining of Maghrib and Esha, and the prayer of Fajr nearer the prayer times.

All of the above methods have been put forward by scholars as means of calculating as per the hadith of the prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), but only when the day is irregular.

What to do when Esha is very late?

There are two Scholars who permit praying Esha in Maghrib time to ease the hardship on Muslims:

1. Shaykh (Mufti) Yusuf Sacha (HA): Shaykh is of the opinion that in UK the latest Esha is at 23:00 and all times later should be ignored and this should be the limit.
2. Shaykh Abu Yusuf Riyadhul-Haq (HA) in his talk on perpetual Twilight: The relevant section of the talk is summarised as follows:

There comes a time when the twilight doesn’t set and (roughly) it is between 17th of May to 10th of July so in those times it doesn’t matter:

• Whether you pray Isha after Maghrib
• Whether you pray Isha one hour after Maghrib

And then there come a time when the twilight disappears but its very late e.g. Salah times on 31st of July are:

1. Maghrib: 21:07
2. Twilight set: 23:21
3. Fajar Start: 03:07
4. Sunrise: 05:21

So you can see that it is very late and so I don’t think that there are many Masajid in UK which pray Isha so late so they pray Isha in Maghrib time. Its still Maghrib time as true onset of darkness is around 23:20 but the Ulama have given this concession even when there is Isha time. Now, when there isn’t time you can even pray straight after Maghrib because there is no Isha time. However, the Ulama have also said based on the evidences that if Isha is so late that it is very very difficult for people to pray then it is still permissible for them to act on the concessions of, act on the differences of opinions of Scholars and pray Isha Salah slightly earlier in Maghrib time.

Now where are the defined points i.e. from what dates to what dates? That is difficult! Should you pray Isha in Magrib time when Isha comes down to 23:00? 22:30?

I would say that each person should consciously speak to himself, “Can I stay awake and manage to stay Isha Salah in its own time? If you can then do that!

If you can’t stay awake at all and if you think that you are getting to the stage where if you stay awake then you may not be able to pray your Salah properly and if you do then you will miss Fajar then you can pray Isha Salah in Maghrib time. It’s a question of personal conscious.

December 2012 Fatwa from Darul-uloom Karachi

central-mosque.com/index.php/Acts-of-Worship/scholarly-co...

Jazakallah, unfortunately I haven't had the privilege of reading hazrats book.

Would you be able to give us a brief introduction to it please as well as the conclusion.

Jazakallahu Khair

Asslamo Allaikum,

Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (HA), Shaykh (Mufti) Shabbir Saheb (HA) and many of our other Akabir are of the view that Fajar & Esha is at 18 degrees. Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat Saheb (HA) is also of the same opinion.

Never read the book so don't know the discussions. Two things need to be considered:

1. There is a lot of leeway for Esha Salah as explained in detailed by Shaykh (Maulana) Abu Yusuf Riyadhul-Haq (HA) so it doesn't really matter when Esha happens (wherever) and whenever in UK
2. There is no 18 degrees this Ramadhan up North until roughly 29th of July so I guess they must be estimating Fajar start until then (whatever time it is)

Darul-uloom Bury has ZILCH involvement with Hizbul-Ulamah although they both follow Saudia!

If I had my way I would take Hizbul-Ulamah to COURT for defaming Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (HA), Shaykh (Mufti) Shabbir Saheb (HA) & Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat Saheb (HA)!!!!

• They do follow Saudi but after detailed discussions with IDA (Leicester) the reasons and rationale are entirely different to Hizbul-Ulamah. We took an appointment and travelled to IDA and had a detailed discussion with a Mufti Saheb (there).
• I have also sat down and discussed the issue directly with teachers at Darul-uloom Bury

Yes, we would like these Ulamah to openly come out and take a position but Hizbul-Ulamah has really made the issue political.