is gold and silver real money?

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 15:29

I was referring to the point you made:

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...produce and control worthless currency and then assign their own value to it, to a point where everyone starts to accept its artificially produced value?

I thought about bitcoin because I heard about it on the news and how it was gaining popularity in some corners, but I don't know too much about it myself.

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الشكر قيد الموجود وصيد المفقود

Shukr binds the present (bounties) and traps the absent (bounties)

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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 15:44

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Salams brother

Check this out. I got it from maloney's website.
Bit coin crashes, losses half it's value after two days

www.zerohedge.com/print/482319

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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 15:47

I have a fligh to catch to NYC so I am in a hurry so here are quick words.

We are Muqallids of a Madhab so we follow the Hanafi Madhab with its principles and its foundations.

Hanafi Madhab never had a problem with paper currency pegged or un-pegged (FIAT)
Hanafi Madhab allows Ulamah to delibarate issues and this issue was discussed by Hanafi, Salafi, Sufi, Deobandi, Barelwee Ulamah and Ijmah (consensus) was agreed that there is no problem with paper (FIAT) currency. This Ijmah (consensus) was reached after 3 days of discussion 8-11 December 1989 and 5 points were agreed while the 6 points (currency exchange) was discussed upon, see below

I am also not aware of any Dhahiri or Salafi Fatwa against paper currency and its usage again pegged or un-pegged (FIAT)

So if someone is reading this thread and wondering about the Shariah rulings of using this currency, don't be.

Lastly, as I said if someone is interested in buying gold, my friend lost his investment and lost his job because Gold prices have plummeted but if you are reading this thread and hunderds of others on forums and getting bombarded by blogs and emails about Gold. MAKE YOUR CHOICE WISELY!

Don't get emotional and make wise choices, here is a chart of Gold Prices for the past 5 years and it is NOT GOING UP AND UP as people claim

here is a chart of Gold Prices for the past 10 years and it is NOT GOING UP AND UP as people claim

here is a chart of Gold Prices for the past 20 years and it is NOT GOING UP AND UP as people claim

Here is Gold Price inflation adjusted for a period of last 30 years!

The prediction is that GOLD PRICES Peaked as you can see from the Charts and now they will normalise themselves (and come down) so part with your money wisely and think about your wife and children before believing everything you read on the Internet.

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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 15:54

Allah (SWT) has declared war on Riba (usury) so whether you use Rupees, Dollars, Gold, Silver, bitcoin or Paypal; this system will be DESTROYED unless people repent sincerely because Allah (SWT) hates Riba (usury).

How an exchange occurs in a Riba (usury) system is a pointless argument and whether it is pegged to Gold or unpegged is of little consequence

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 16:05

JazakAllah khayran for the share. Can't read the Urdu.

I don't think this discussion is about whether using paper currency is allowed or not. It is an analysis of what is happening to paper currencies around the world.

Insha'Allah ulema haven't concluded their discussions on the issue of economy. Insha'Allah we'll have more guidance from them in years to come.

It is impractical to buy gold at this time but the point isn't to go and start converting all paper currencies into gold (totally impractical and makes no financial sense what-so-ever at this time since you'd need more paper money to buy gold than you would get if you were to try to use that gold to buy 'stuff'). The point is that the series provides an angle to the issue that is simplified enough that anyone can follow... in other words, it is meant to educate. But... we need to know to filter out the infomercials.

I agree with brother Muadh_Khan... don't go out and try to buy all the gold in the world. In fact, it isn't a good time to buy gold at all.

My closing thoughts: we need to learn to live simpler lives so we have less dependence on stuff but also by doing so, we are less of a burden for others as well. If we find ourselves in a situation where all our wealth is gone... how many of us are prepared to do without? Do you know what you can forage for in your area (plants that are edible and plants that should be avoided)? Do you know how to navigate without a compass? Stuff like that.

Insha'Allah one day there will be a time when the entire system is toppled and we're using a system that is free of riba and lies. Even then, we sill need to re-calibrate our lifestyles because they are not sustainable at all.

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 17:10

i do not know if a fiat currency is acceptable or unacceptable according to the command of allah. (i will look into this inshallah.) but one thing is certain is that the current monetary system is dependent upon ribah and is structured in a way that makes it ideal to manipulate and misuse by those who produce and control it and also aids in oppression.

the following are some charts that show how the value of money has dropped over the years. i have not had the chance to look into the veracity of the charts, but if they are found to be correct then it illustrates that the value of gold has fared much better than the value of the current fiat currency. ( i am NOT in anyway encouraging anyone to invest all their money and valuables into gold. i am genuinely researching the matter myself and i am just joining in with this discussion with whatever little i know.)

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 17:40

"The [Canadian] mint is known for producing the world's first and only 99.999% pure gold coin in limited edition 1 ounce bullion form from 2007 to 2009 and also minting the world's largest gold coin in 2007 weighing 100 kilograms with 99.999% pure gold with a 1 million dollar face value. In addition to minting coinage, the RCM mints gold (1 oz, 5 oz, 10 oz, 1 kg, 100 oz) and silver (1 oz, 100 oz) bars."

(source)

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 17:43

"Premiums on bars will be cheaper than coins of the same weight and the more coins you purchase at a time, the lower the premium. The premium is either a fixed dollar amount or a fixed percentage over spot per ounce and the lowest premiums will always be in large bars. When there is a shortage of precious metals, dealers normally increase the premiums in order to curb demand, and of course to make extra." (source)

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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 18:09

"The last place I would advice you to purchase your precious metals is from your local bank, as their premiums are higher and the process involves unnecessary paperwork and ID requirements. They also charge you transport and administration fees, and will attempt to convince you to buy a paper certificate rather than the physical metal." (source)

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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 19:00

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الحمد لله

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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 22:38

I have to disagree somewhat with brother maudh about gold. There are pullbacks and corrections but gold and silver will still keep climbing up in the long run inshallah . in 2001, gold was 260$ an ounce and now it's at 1230$ an ounce. The real reason for the price drops are because physical metals markets are being dictated by the stock markets and Wall Street. It's wrong to price a metal or any commodity by paper certificates that are worthless scraps of paper, backed by nothing or nobody. It's all a big Ponzi scheme . Price of a commodity is actually suppose to priced by physical supply and demand, not ( stock ) supply and demand. Commodities are limited but digital stocks are unlimited. It doesn't make sense at all. Bottom line, we need a scam free money system that can't be rigged and I believe it's the ( pysical ) dinar and dirham, not the paper backed version. the u.s gold standerd is a classical example. The federal government backed every dollar exchangeable in gold to anyone who wanted to convert from paper to physical gold. after fdr confiscated everyone's gold in 1933,the u.s gov stopped honoring this promise to only its citizens and then the temptation of overprinting money came in. In 1971 Nixon closed the gold window because it didn't want to exchange dollars that France wanted to redeem in gold. That right there was when America became bankrupt and the dollar started losing its value internationally. If it wasn't for America inventing OPEC and forcing the gulf states to sell their oil in u.s dollars, America would have been broke along time ago. So the only tangible commodity that is keeping America's currency alive is oil and not gold. as for the ulema, we believe that they will make the right decision no matter what happens. Towards the end of time when imam mehdi (a.s) will rule, he will be handing out gold and silver as zakat and sadaqah. No mention of fiat money. Allah knows best

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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2013 23:23

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RT news

Saving the world economy from Gaddafi

Published time: May 05, 2011 02:29
Edited time: May 05, 2011 08:42 Get short URL
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Arab world protests, Libyan conflict
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Conflict, Currencies, Economy, Laura Smith, Libya, Middle East, NATO, Natural resources, Politics, USA
Some believe it is about protecting civilians, others say it is about oil, but some are convinced intervention in Libya is all about Gaddafi's plan to introduce the gold dinar, a single African currency made from gold, a true sharing of the wealth.

"It's one of these things that you have to plan almost in secret, because as soon as you say you're going to change over from the dollar to something else, you're going to be targeted," says Ministry of Peace founder Dr James Thring. "There were two conferences on this, in 1986 and 2000, organized by Gaddafi. Everybody was interested, most countries in Africa were keen."

Gaddafi did not give up. In the months leading up to the military intervention, he called on African and Muslim nations to join together to create this new currency that would rival the dollar and euro. They would sell oil and other resources around the world only for gold dinars.

It is an idea that would shift the economic balance of the world.

A country's wealth would depend on how much gold it had and not how many dollars it traded. And Libya has 144 tons of gold. The UK, for example, has twice as much, but ten times the population.

"If Gaddafi had an intent to try to re-price his oil or whatever else the country was selling on the global market and accept something else as a currency or maybe launch a gold dinar currency, any move such as that would certainly not be welcomed by the power elite today, who are responsible for controlling the world's central banks," says Anthony Wile, founder and chief editor of the Daily Bell.

"So yes, that would certainly be something that would cause his immediate dismissal and the need for other reasons to be brought forward from moving him from power."

And it has happened before.

In 2000, Saddam Hussein announced Iraqi oil would be traded in euros, not dollars. Some say sanctions and an invasion followed because the Americans were desperate to prevent OPEC from transferring oil trading in all its member countries to the euro.

A gold dinar would have had serious consequences for the world financial system, but may also have empowered the people of Africa, something black activists say the US wants to avoid at all costs.

"The US have denied self-determination to Africans inside the US, so we are not surprised by anything the US would do to hinder the self-determination of Africans on the continent," says Cynthia Ann McKinney, a former US Congresswoman.

The UK's gold is kept in a secure vault somewhere in the depths of the Bank of England. As in most developed countries, there is not enough to go around.

But that is not the case in countries like Libya and many of the Gulf States.
A gold dinar would have given oil-rich African and Middle Eastern countries the power to turn around to their energy-hungry customers and say: "Sorry, the price has gone up, and we want gold."

Some say the US and its NATO allies literally could not afford to let that happen.

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2013 18:14

Alhamdulillah, I finished watching the series. It is a good learning tool but I still have reservations. Even he pays with currency so don't think that in this messed up system, a hand-full of people can start using gold and silver. Ultimately, it is an infomercial... they stand to gain but hope that we all do. However, keeping in mind what they keep echoing throughout the series (that real 'money' is in limited supply), this just isn't possible! And... without going into any real detail about collectivism, they just write it off as infringing on freedoms!!! Therefore, the goal isn't the collective betterment of people but the few who get in on this early enough and those of us who straggle behind either make up the 'new' middle class or form part of the poor masses.

While I've gained some insight into the workings of the Central banks... I'm no wiser in terms of what I need to do now, in a real way, in a way that doesn't jeopardize my duniya or akhira, is sustainable, and doesn't eat at the rights of others nor cause burden on them. Alhamdulillah for that feeling of unease because at least it means I still feel the need to struggle.

JazakAllah khayran for the share.

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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2013 21:15

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Wa iyyakum

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is gold and silver real money?

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