Here peer Zulfiqar Ahmed RA is quoting Hakeemul ummath Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA.
These appear to be two separate incidents. One in deoband other in Saudia.
I read elsewhere that Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA had prepared his student, Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Uthmani RA, regarding the content of the speech to be delivered before the King.
Even back then I am saying that the reference is not authenticated.
If our dear Friend Dr76 was around, we can ask him about his post as he is an expert on the matter
Maulana Zafar Ahmad Usmani (RA) was the nephew of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)
Allamah Shabbir Ahmad Usmani (RA) was the not nephew of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)
Both Usmani (RA) were staunch supporters of Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA), Pakistan and dividing India so heretics, misguided or whatever Indian Muslims want to call them
Indeed, we have the same "story" ascribed to Maulana Zakariyya (RA) so not sure.
akbar703 wrote:
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akbar703 wrote:
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Peer Zulfiqar [1 April 1953 – 14 December 2025] cannot quote Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) [19 August 1863 – 20 July 1943]unless he had a time machine!
In 1343 AH, when the Saudis planned to demolish the Green Dome, a delegation from India arrived in Saudi Arabia. The delegation included Mufti Kifayatullah, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, Allamah Syed Sulaiman Nadvi, Maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar, and Maulana Shaukat Ali.
In the presence of the Saudi King, the Deobandi scholar Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani delivered a stirring and faith-inspiring address. Consequently, the decision to demolish the Green Dome of the blessed Raudah mubarak was revoked.
Since you claim to have translated this book, please present the translation:
Page 3, first paragraph which has the dates
Page 7 which discusses the issue of domes
I understand that dishonesty, lying and treachery is in your blood but we can catch you out with wrong translation, Please go ahead.
Translation of the speech is from original book that refers to Hazrath Umar bin Abdul Azeez RA.
This introductory note is from a Pakistani madrasah.
یہ ۱۳۴۳ھ میں سعودی فرماں روا عبدالعزیز بن سعود کی حکومت نے مذہبی حوالے سے جو متنازع اقدامات کیے، ان میں سے جنت المعلّٰی اور جنت البقیع کے مزاراتِ مقدسہ پر بنے ہوئے قُبّوں کی مسماری کا معاملہ بھی تھا۔ اہلِ سعود کا یہ اقدام یہیں تک محدود نہیں تھا،
بلکہ اگلے مرحلے میں گبندِ خضراء کی مسماری بھی ان کا ہدف تھا،
اس دوران اُمتِ مسلمہ میں سعودی حکومت کے بارے میں بڑے ناپسندیدہ جذبات پیدا ہوگئے اور دنیا بھر کے علماء اور مذہبی پیشواؤں نے ان کی فہمائش کی کوشش کی، جس کے نتیجہ میں شاہ عبدالعزیز بن سعود نے اسی سال حج کے موقع پر اسی موضوع پر ایک کانفرنس کا انعقاد کیا، جس میں علماء ہند میں سے حضرت مفتی اعظم ہند مفتی محمد کفایت اللہ دہلوی رحمۃ اللہ علیہ اور علامہ شبیر احمد عثمانی رحمۃ اللہ علیہ اور چند دیگر علماء کو بطور خاص مدعو کیا گیا تھا۔ اس کانفرنس میں سلطان عبدالعزیز بن سعود نے اپنے موقف کو توحید پرستی پر مبنی قراردیتے ہوئے کسی کی پرواہ نہ کرنے کا عزم ظاہر فرمایا، تو جوابی تقریر کے طور پر حضرت علامہ شبیر احمد عثمانی رحمۃ اللہ علیہ نے شاہ ابنِ سعود کے نقطۂ نظر کی جو علمی تنقیح ، تردید اور تصحیح فرمائی، اس سے نہ صرف یہ کہ سعودی فرماں روا لاجواب ہوگئے،
بلکہ مزید اقدامات جن میں گنبدِ خضراء کی توہین آمیز مسماری بھی شامل تھی، اس سے باز آگئے،
اس طرح گنبدِ خضراء کا مہبطِ انوار منظر‘ علماء دیوبند کے سرخیل،
بانیِ پاکستان علامہ شبیر احمد عثمانی رحمۃ اللہ علیہ کا عظیم کارنامہ ہے۔
علامہ عثمانیؒ کی یہ تقریر اپنی سابقہ تمہید کے ساتھ قارئین کے جذبۂ عقیدت کی نذر کی جارہی ہے۔ (ادارہ)
In 1343 AH, when the Saudis planned to demolish the Green Dome, a delegation from India arrived in Saudi Arabia. The delegation included Mufti Kifayatullah, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, Allamah Syed Sulaiman Nadvi, Maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar, and Maulana Shaukat Ali.
In the presence of the Saudi King, the Deobandi scholar Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani delivered a stirring and faith-inspiring address. Consequently, the decision to demolish the Green Dome of the blessed Raudah mubarak was revoked.
Since you claim to have translated this book, please present the translation:
Page 3, first paragraph which has the dates
Page 7 which discusses the issue of domes
I understand that dishonesty, lying and treachery is in your blood but we can catch you out with wrong translation, Please go ahead.
Thanks Idiot
akbar703 wrote:
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Translate what I asked for in the two bullet points above in English.
Page 7 which discusses the issue of domes
This is the actual speech of Allamah Shabbir Usmani (RA), Translate it in English.
In 1343 AH, when the Saudis planned to demolish the Green Dome, a delegation from India arrived in Saudi Arabia. The delegation included Mufti Kifayatullah, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, Allamah Syed Sulaiman Nadvi, Maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar, and Maulana Shaukat Ali.
In the presence of the Saudi King, the Deobandi scholar Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani delivered a stirring and faith-inspiring address. Consequently, the decision to demolish the Green Dome of the blessed Raudah mubarak was revoked.
Since you claim to have translated this book, please present the translation:
Page 3, first paragraph which has the dates
Page 7 which discusses the issue of domes
akbar703 wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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This forum censors people for vaccines and moon landing, how long will you allow this liar to continue, lying? Ask him to present the English translation from his own source to everyone.
Babur: Documented sending offerings and presents to holy men and shrines in Makkah and Medina following the establishment of the Mughal Empire.
Jahangir: Sent hundreds of thousands of rupees annually to the Haramain and funded the construction of wells in the region.
Shah Jahan: Dispatched 2.5 lakh rupees along with precious jewels to the Sharif of Makkah, alongside funding local religious structures and repairs in Medina.
I have no idea what you are talking about me but if I have ever misspoke or said something which isn't accurate, please point it out and I will be happy to correct and apologize.
I am human and make mistakes.
Claim:
The Idiot wrote:
Indians Stopped demolition of Green Dome
In 1343 AH, when the Saudis planned to demolish the Green Dome, a delegation from India arrived in Saudi Arabia. The delegation included Mufti Kifayatullah, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, Allamah Syed Sulaiman Nadvi, Maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar, and Maulana Shaukat Ali.
In the presence of the Saudi King, the Deobandi scholar Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani delivered a stirring and faith-inspiring address. Consequently, the decision to demolish the Green Dome of the blessed Raudah mubarak was revoked.
Source:
The Idiot wrote:
jazakallahu khair. I have translated from urdu book "Ma'araka e Makkah". This book has the complete speech delivered by maulana shabbeer Uthmani.
The entire "speech" of Allamah Shabbir Usmani (RA) is about domes and raised structures on graves and he states:
We do not consider building domes and raised structures on graves as correct.
We do not consider demolishing domes and raised structures on graves as correct, either.
The entire speech of Allamah Shabbir Usmani (RA) does not mention the green dome of Rasul-ullah and neither is there any historical evidence of Saudi Government
...While all these angles to the arguments were discussed, the books do not make any mention of the Green Dome...
Position of Saudi Scholars on Domes over Graves & Green dome:
Always been...
Building domes and structures raised structures on graves is a reprehensible innovation and impermissible. These structures should be demolished as per the opinion of dozens of earlier Islamic Scholars
Burying in Mosques in impermissible. Prophet Muhammad was buried in the house of Sayyiduna Aisha رضى الله عنها and Mosque expanded around it.
The Green dome was built centuries later! Demolishing it will actually lead to Fitnah and Fasad and should be avoided. And there has never been a plan to demolish the Green dome see official Government policy below
Saudi Government wrote:
"Some Indian newspapers recently published news claiming that the Saudi Arabian government intends to demolish the Green Prophetic Dome in the Prophet's Mosque in Medina during its renovation of the Mosque of the Messenger of Allah (upon him be the finest peace and purest blessings). The Saudi government instructed its representatives in India and Pakistan to deny all of these false allegations, which exist nowhere except in the imaginations of the enemies of Islam and Muslims.
The Saudi government believed that the statement would be sufficient to invalidate the fabrications spread by the false accusers among the enemies of God and His Messenger regarding these malicious slanders. However, during the Hajj season, some Pakistani scholars contacted His Royal Highness, the August Crown Prince, and showed His Highness an Egyptian magazine that published a image claiming it to be the future appearance of the Prophet's Mosque after its renovation. Since the image they saw is not the actual design that the Mosque of the Messenger of Allah will take after its renovation, His Highness reassured them that everything being rumored and said is pure slander.
He affirmed that the renovation undertaken by the Saudi government to expand the sides of the Prophet's Mosque—at the personal expense of His Majesty, the King of Saudi Arabia—will not cause any change or disruption to the Rawdah, the Dome, or the Prophetic Chamber. The Saudi government hopes that this statement will bring reassurance to all our Muslim brothers across the East and West of the Earth."
Position of Saudi Scholars vs Deobandees on Structures over Grave?
This excludes the Green dome..
Saudi Scholars are united that these structures should be destroyed
Deobandi Scholars disagree upon the matter with most saying that these structures should not be destroyed while some saying that they can be...
abu mohammed wrote:
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Leaving the situation of this vile liar between you and Allah Ta'ala
There is a dargah (shrine) for which there are no authentic historical records or documents regarding its origins, who is buried there, or even its actual name. It is merely known by the name "Jilani Sailani." Some say it is a tomb (mazar), while others say it is a chillah (a place of forty-day spiritual retreat). It is most famously known as a chillah, as there are several chillahs and shrines by this name in various places. The shrine trust itself possesses no documentary evidence. Every year on the day of Holi, a sandal ritual and Urs (annual commemoration) are celebrated at this shrine, because there is no authentic date or record for the Urs. When this shrine was originally built, it had neither a dome nor a minaret, and the shrine building remains the same today.
Some people say it should be rebuilt exactly as it was originally structured, with only the roof and floor being renovated. Others also insist on maintaining its original form. There is an anticipation of unrest and conflict regarding this, especially because a large Jamia Mosque is adjacent to the shrine. Currently, everything is fine, but if the shrine is made grand and beautiful, further corruptions and evils will arise there, as the influx of women to the site will increase.
Under such circumstances, what is the Islamic legal (Shari'i) solution? Please provide proper guidance.
Jazak Allah Khair, Ameen Thumma Ameen.
Darul-uloom Deoband wrote:
Even if the existence of the grave is proven, making the grave solid (plastered/paved) or constructing a building, dome, or similar structure over it is not permissible in Islamic law (Shari'ah), as it has been prohibited in the noble Hadith. It is better not to construct anything at this site for the time being and leave it as it is. Later, when an opportunity arises, if this space is incorporated into the mosque building with wisdom and gentleness and allocated for the needs/interests of the mosque, that would be better.
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
We apologise but you have been denied access to report posts in this thread. This could be due to excessively reporting posts and not understanding our forum rules. For assistance or information, please use the forum help thread to request more information. Jazakallah
and neither is there any historical evidence of Saudi Government
was buried in the house of Sayyiduna Aisha رضى الله عنها and Mosque expanded around it.
