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Washing Machine and Hanafi Madhab?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:16
I have spent the past 2 days going over the Fatawa of Hanafi Fuqaha on washing machine and I do believe that these Fatwa need updating.

Manual Washing:

Many in the Hanafi mandate (make obligatory) that Najasah mush be washed 3 times while squeezing each time in the middle. However, this is not the case as washing it sufficiently once will sufficient, the condition of 3 times is to ensure that it is washed properly.

seekersguidance.org/answers/hanafi-fiqh/wash-dry-impurity/

Maraqi al-Falah is a relied-upon manual of Hanafi fiqh. The following is stated in the chapter on purification from filth:

يطهر محل النجاسة غير المرئية بغسلها ثلاثا وجوبا والعصر كل مرة


“It is necessary to purify any area that has a non-visible impurity by washing thrice and wringing it out each time.”

ووضعه في الماء الجاري يغني عن التثليث والعصر


“Placing it in flowing water removes the need to wash thrice and squeeze.”

Washing Machine:

Modern washing machine in a typical cycle (or stage) uses water twice:

  1. Wash: Takes water and detergent and then washes the clothes
  2. Rinse: Takes fresh water and rinses the clothes


Many of the Ulama have used the manual analogy of washing 3 times (by hand) and applied it to washing machine of 1960s who maybe did take water 3-4 times and then stated that washing machine usage is correct.

The fact is that modern washing machine is sufficient in its twin cycle to wash the clothes and if you wish to follow the "caution of Hanafi Madhab" then add a 3rd rinse cycle to fulfil the condition.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:25

3 times, which would be about 20 spins a minute

or


1 time, which would be 1400 spins a minute (approx)

We do need to move along with time and tech in certain cases, not all.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:30
How about washing clothes with najasah separately with extra 1 or 2 rinse cycles

Never mix clothes with najasah with other clothes.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:32
abu mohammed wrote:
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A modern washing machine does not cycle water 3 times on a normal wash, I am willing to challenge your technical understanding of how washing machines work.

You are showing "spin" not:

  1. Water filling and draining
  2. Water filling and draining
  3. Water filling and draining


In a modern washing machine this happens twice as I have indicated. I am making a point that it is not required in the Madhab.

فعلم بهذا أن المذهب اعتبار غلبة الظن وأنها مقدرة بالثلاث لحصولها


And this is "achieved" in estimation by washing 3 times, it doesn't mean that it is mandated in the Hanafi Madhab.

ssaad wrote:
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You can throw away clothes and I don't care as they are your clothes and your money.

Understand the argument being made and then comment.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:40
In USA and Asia, most common design is "top loading" i.e. you put the clothes from the top while in Europe, most machines are front-loading

But both work in the same way regardless of how clothes are loaded.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:59
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 11:59
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I agree with you and am not challenging anything.

Also, on a side note, does the amount of water being used make a difference when washing by hand, because that would be very little water (although this water would be fresh) in comparison to old fashioned washing machines. Old machines used approx 150 litres of water and current machines use approx 50 litres of water or less (recycled and fresh water)

Can you also remind us of a similar question that was asked before where you mentioned the Shafi' school. That was interesting. I can't recall if it would be related or not.

EDIT: I recall now, the Shafi' answer was in response to touching pig skin.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 12:13
How Washing Machine works?

Youtube Video


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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 12:16
10
Quote:
Water filling and draining
Water filling and draining
Water filling and draining


Does that in our washing machine (Whirlpool) on full load cycle (twice only on half load cycle)
Both times we got a new machine I made sure by staying in the room where the washing machine is to check how many times water drains out..because of the mas'alah regarding clothes washed in a washing machine. Spins after third draining
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 12:23
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I actually found this to be interesting.

Someone needs to find a video inside a typical machine, i.e. FULLLLLL load ;) That might help machine users understand that the machine should not be filled to the rim. There needs to be enough space in the drum for the clothes to move around and let the water get everywhere.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 12:24
ummi taalib wrote:
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Correct.

By design it is supposed to do it twice. But based on program, load and other circumstances it can do it 3 times or even more then three time if the sensor detects surfactant (detergent) in newer machines. You can also add extra spin cycle and do it more times.

I am challenging the default understanding that it does it 3 times every time which is not true.

I have also now checked the Hanafi Madhab and there is no obligation to wash something 3 times anyway, the obligation is to ensure that Najasah is washed off. Fuqaha mentioned 3 times because in the desert and in scarcity of water it was meant to emphasise that Tahara has been achieved.

Also washing machine achieve Tahara much better then washing by hands because Tahara is being achieved not by force but by surfactant (detergent).

Then spin average is 800 RPM (revolutions per minute) and unless someone is a Superman or Wonder man it cannot be achieved by hands to rinse after washing at that speed.

abu mohammed wrote:
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You need the surfactant (detergent) to get everywhere for it to drag dirt. Its like washing hands with soap in Coronavirus, it needs to destroy the spikes of COVID-19!

You are not supposed to fill the machine because friction between clothes and spin won't let the surfactant (detergent) clean the clothes properly if clothes are not hitting each other.

But Sister is right that if you do that then you are defaulting to twice fill/drain cycle.

Full load (or overload) forces the machine to fill/rinse 3 times or even more but cleaning is less efficient.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 12:32
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Salaam.

If anyone has doubts then just use the pre wash program on your washing machine.

Pre wash is 1.
Main wash is 2.
Last rinse is 3.

I'm happy with the understanding that a normal wash is enough to remove the impurity.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 12:40
xs11ax wrote:
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W-Salam,

Absolutely correct and on any size load.

Newer Washing Machine

  1. Pre-Wash: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 1
  2. Main Wash: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 2
  3. Rinse: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 3


Older Washing Machine

  1. Main Wash: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 1
  2. Rinse: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 2
  3. Extra Rinse: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 3


Any Washing Machine: Wash clothes twice

  1. Main Wash: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 1
  2. Rinse: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 2
  3. Main Wash: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 3
  4. Rinse: Fill and Rinse Water cycle 4
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 13:12
Quote:
How about washing clothes with najasah separately with extra 1 or 2 rinse cycles

Never mix clothes with najasah with other clothes.


Reply


Quote:
You can throw away clothes and I don't care as they are your clothes and your money.

Understand the argument being made and then comment.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2020 13:24
ssaad wrote:
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You don't need to either from the Hanafi Madhab or scientific perspective.

But as I said, "Its your clothes and your money" so do whatever you want to do.
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