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Ruju' of (Maulvi) Salman Nadvi

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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 13:39
bint e aisha wrote:
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I understand that you as a Pakistani can justify sending curse of Allah Ta'ala upon anyone, its in your DNA.

mobile.twitter.com/Mufti_Kakakhail/status/117416187039309...

You can gift wrap "Curse of Allah Ta'ala" in nice pretty packages too.

In Islam, there is zero need for any of this but as a Pakistani, I understand your psyche.
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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 13:42
Classic example of ad hominem.

Quote:
Attacking the person making the argument, rather than the argument itself, when the attack on the person is completely irrelevant to the argument the person is making.


Allah ta'ala is the ultimate judge.
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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:02
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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:03
bint e aisha wrote:
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English Translation of Tweet:

mobile.twitter.com/Mufti_Kakakhail/status/117416187039309...

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "If you see those who abuse my Companions, then say: 'May Allah's curse be upon the worst of you.'" [Tirmidhi]

According to this Hadeeth, curse of Allah Ta'ala be upon the corruption of shameless despicable Maulvi Salman (so called Hussaini, Nadwi)

P.S: But Muadh Khan is guilty of hominem attacks



bint e aisha wrote:
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As I said, you will keep on justifying your behaviour by posting XYZ and keep on accusing me of extremism and ad hominem attacks. I do not know if those two have also "Cursed Maulana Salman Nadwi (RA)" as you have propagated and if they have then they are equally guilty but people of Pakistan have drank the Kool Aid on these "Curse of Allah" pronouncements.

Those who slit the throats of Muslims in your country and bomb those in the houses of Allah Ta'ala while in prostration also have the same warped sense of reality.
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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:05
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Where's the word despicable in Urdu?

PS. You still haven't justified any of your allegations. Do you want to take it back?

I am genuinely confused and want to know why is it wrong to call out Salman Nadvi Sahab but an excellent act of Islam to protest against Shias? What is the difference between the two? Both have spoken against the same Sahabi.
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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:08
Topic fulfilled?
bint e aisha wrote:
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abuzayd2k wrote:
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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:11
bint e aisha wrote:
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Sure, I understand.

You are backing pronouncements of "Curse of Allah Ta'ala" upon Ulama but I am making hominem attacks and I need to take my words back.

And now lying and saying that I am declaring Maulan's pronouncement as "excellent acts"

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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:14
abu mohammed wrote:
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Have you listened to it? He did not retract anything, but yes it is good that he won't speak about these topics again. So yes the reason why I opened the thread has been fulfilled. But now I'm more confused because at least three of the members consider my reaction and the tweet of Mufti Syed Adnan Kakakhail to be "over the top". Was all that I studied over the years about the honour of Sahaba wrong?
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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:17
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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No I was referring to this irony:
Muadh_Khan wrote:
On the honour and stature of Sahaba-e-Karam (RA), no compromise at all!
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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:31
bint e aisha wrote:
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And this requires me to start sending "Curse of Allah" upon Sunni Ulama based on a Munkar Hadeeth?

Read what Imam Tirmidhi (RA) states right after quoting the Hadeeth:

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ، مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ نَافِعٍ حَدَّثَنَا النَّضْرُ بْنُ حَمَّادٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَيْفُ بْنُ عُمَرَ، عَنْ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ، عَنْ نَافِعٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ إِذَا رَأَيْتُمُ الَّذِينَ يَسُبُّونَ أَصْحَابِي فَقُولُوا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَى شَرِّكُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ مُنْكَرٌ لاَ نَعْرِفُهُ مِنْ حَدِيثِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ إِلاَّ مِنْ هَذَا الْوَجْهِ ‏.‏ وَالنَّضْرُ مَجْهُولٌ وَسَيْفٌ مَجْهُولٌ ‏.‏


islamweb.net/ar/library/index.php?page=bookcontents&I...

If you are going to quote Imam Tirmidhi (RA) then quote what Imam Tirmidhi (RA) says straight after the Hadeeth too.

Don't quote Imam Tirmidhi (RA)
THEN
skip his gradation of Hadeeth
OR
take the opinion of XYZ on the same Hadeeth

As I said, you are intelligent and knowledgable enough to know all of this but you can't help it because it is in your DNA to send "Curse of Allah" upon other Muslims because you derive pleasure from such pronouncements. My Islam doesn't allow me to send these pronouncements based on "Munkar Hadeeth".

A person can disagree Maulana Salman Nadwi (HA), we can disagree vehemently, we can refute forcefully, we can boycott him, we can publicise his error, we can force him to retract and apologise, but to send "Curse of Allah" upon him is a bit too much! In no way what he said should be appreciated, condoned or favoured or like but is he worthy of being "cursed" based on "Munkar Hadeeth"? That's my point

You already know and understand what I am saying. . But as a Pakistani, I understand that you enjoy these theatrics and dramatics.
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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:40
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
Those who slit the throats of Muslims in your country and bomb those in the houses of Allah Ta'ala while in prostration also have the same warped sense of reality.

So whatever these extremists khawarij do makes it automatically wrong? They say "la ilaha illallah" so that is also wrong if we say this because some of those who say this kalimah kill innocent people?

We should not wear shoes because those who slit the throats of Muslims in my country and bomb those in the houses of Allah Ta'ala while in prostration also wear shoes?

We should not eat anything because those who slit the throats of Muslims in my country and bomb those in the houses of Allah Ta'ala while in prostration also eat?

Ok nice logic!
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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 14:45
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Yes you're 100% correct about the hadith. I only posted the tweet because brother Muslimman mentioned it.

And Mufti Sahab didn't say: مولوی سلمان پر لعنت ہو.
He said: مولوی سلمان کے شر پر لعنت ہو. There's a difference between these two statements.
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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 16:41
And there are plenty of other narrations as well regarding this topic.

Abdullah ibn Umar reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The curse of Allah is upon the one who insults my companions.”

Source: al-Mu’jam al-Awsaṭ 7198

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Suyuti

عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّم، قَالَ لَعَنَ اللَّهُ مَنْ سَبَّ أَصْحَابِي

7198 المعجم الأوسط للطبراني

7260 المحدث السيوطي خلاصة حكم المحدث صحيح في الجامع الصغير
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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 17:19
bint e aisha wrote:
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R-E-A-D

www.muftisays.com/forums/27-sharing-portal/13681-ruju-of-...

bint e aisha wrote:
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R-E-A-D

www.muftisays.com/forums/27-sharing-portal/13681-ruju-of-...

bint e aisha wrote:
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abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2019/08/07/curse-revi...

Before quoting random Salafees in response after using Google:

  1. Quote the source
  2. L-E-A-R-N who Imam Suyuti (RA) was and the meaning of his "authentication of Hadeeth" . Read the views of Mufti Taqi Usmai (HA) about the gradation of Imam Suyuti (RA)
  3. R-E-S-E-A-R-C-H a Hadeeth before discussing


I know that you understand clearly what I have been saying which is:

I refuse to send "Curse of Allah" upon a Sunni Scholar on the basis of a Munkar Hadeeth. I do not defend him. I do not condone what he say. I do not support or like or support what he has to say. In fact, I say I consider words implying insults of Sahabah (RA) to be extremely problematic.

I am just saying that based on "Munkar Hadeeth", I am not going to send "Curse of Allah upon Him", that's all.

But since you are arrogant, belligerent and stubborn, you will still keep justifying your error despite clearly knowing and understanding someone's point of view without doubt. You will now drag this for days and then issue warning and ultimatums of leaving the forum when this isn't the first time you have made major errors in interpretation of Qur'aan and Sunnah.

Stick to read the graffiti on the streets of Pakistan because the tales of the ignorant satisfy your Nafs and keep pronouncing curses and Takfeers on people.

I have made my point clear and importantly, you have understood my point from the first post as to what I am saying and what I am saying.

I have no reason to prove my love for the Sahabah (RA) by pronouncing "Curses of Allah Ta'ala" upon Sunni Ulama to satisfy your ego or the ego of the "Ulama" whom you follow.

Carry on...
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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2020 17:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You've made several allegations in this thread which you've not justified. And your post is again filled with personal attacks but ok bhai I end the discussion with this dua:

اللھم ارنا الحق حقا وارزقنا اتباعہ وارنا الباطل باطلا وارزقنا اجتنابہ



The only reason why I haven't replied to the contents of your post is because you helped me a few months ago. I won't forget that ever.
But I hate myself for contacting you and taking your help.
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