Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

12JUL2020: Armenia Invades Azerbaijan

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
abuzayd2k, tanveerzakee
Rank Image
muslimman's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
172
Brother
170
muslimman's avatar
#31 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 01:13
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


An excellent explanation as always, Muadh Khan. I would like to clarify a few things though.

1) I had already watched your YouTube video about this topic so I had my mind clear and agree with you on the issue of supporting Azerbaijan and opposing Armenia. I do not have any doubts regarding that matter.

2) When bint e aisha made her post about Mufti Saeed sahab (HA) making a mistake, I thought her argument looked strong from a geographical perspective and thought that Mufti Saeed (HA) may have made a mistake despite him being a great intellectual and knowledgeable scholar. All humans are prone to error.

Keep in mind that I not only lack knowledge but also have zero understanding of the Arabic language. So I can be convinced by any person and any argument when it comes to interpreting Hadith. That is why I follow Ulama and do not rely on my own intellect. bint e aisha seems to have a good understanding of Islam and is even familiar with Arabic as evident from her post.

3) I still recommended bint e aisha to double check with Mufti Saeed (HA) himself as he would be the best person to explain his "error", if it was actually an "error".
Hence I posted the WhatsApp group link. It is up to the sister if she wants to follow through and contact Mufti Saeed sahab (HA) or not.

4) Please prescribe me and the rest of the members biryani plates too. Someone does not have to disagree with you on order to receive a suggestion to eat good and tasty food:)
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,374
Sister
1,808
bint e aisha's avatar
#32 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 13:38
@muslimman

I did try to contact Mufti Saeed Sahab but I don't think they will respond. And since Muadh_Khan is saying that the hadith mentioning aljazeera is not authentic and the discussion about it is superfluous (although the video of Mufti Saeed Sahab was posted by Muadh_Khan himself to validate his point of view after I shared Shaykh Sulayman's article), I think we should drop the subject.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-9,867
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#33 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 14:07
bint e aisha wrote:
View original post


bint e aisha wrote:
View original post


Sure...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb6PpOaB9cs

www.islamicteachings.org/forum/topic/24186-making-sense-a...

Imam Shams ad-Dīn adh-Dhahabī (RA) has graded this narration as munqati' (broken).

You are not South African! And you are fairly intelligent and articulate.

Appeal to Honest/Fair People:

This line has always existed in all my posts

Imam Shams ad-Dīn adh-Dhahabī (RA) has graded this narration as munqati' (broken).

My question is that if the South African Maulana and our Sister has overlooked it (as a human error), why can't they believe that I or Mufti Saeed (as humans) can also make a mistake in translation of the first part of the Hadeeth?

  • They can make mistakes and overlook
  • But I or Mufti Saeed (HA) cannot make mistakes and have deliberately twisted a Hadeeth


This is what forced me to post on this forum, you decide.

I have been blocked on Twitter for just pointing out that if its a mistake tell us instead of issuing "Fatwaas" that we are twisting the words of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

Everyone can makes mistakes, we are humans!

P.S: The "mistakes" being pointed out have ZERO IMPACT on the issue at all by the way.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
23,426
Brother
10,091
abu mohammed's avatar
#34 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 14:43
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-9,867
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#35 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 15:51
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


I have the actual Urdu message from Mufti Saheb who has on the ground knowledge of Azerbaijan (and Shia'ism) and have permission to share it with everyone.

But now knowing that this is a "South African" issue there would be no point in sharing it because an unbiased person would simply listen to the recording and either present their on-the-ground research or accept research of others and move on.

But in this case, it will just start another round of arguments for no reason.

From day 1, the note under the Hadeeth number 2 is dead clear in Plain English.
Muft Saeed Saheb (HA)'s Urdu words are also dead clear.
YouTube video is also clear

So I will not share the original recording and waste my time because this has become an "ego" issue and nothing to do with Azerbaijan.

  • The "supposed" English mistranslaton of 1st Hadeeth has no impact on not supporting Armenia
  • The 2nd Hadeeth is not even used by me and I still got accused of "twisting" Hadeeth!

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-9,867
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#36 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 16:52
My Sources & Research (Partially disclosed)

Armenia should not be supported (Hadeeth)


1. Mufti Muhammad Saeed Khan (HA), Rawalpindi: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PUJ-JWKXY
2. Mufti Asadullah Shebaaz (Senior Mufti Jamiatur-Rasheed), this is him: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzotz0ftezs
3. Mufti Ali Munir (HA) (Islamabad), Mureed and student of Shaykhul-Islam Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA), this is him: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNy_t4bf4Q
4. I then asked 2 & 3 about “Fatwa” and both independently responded that there is no official Fatwa but majority of Ulama (of Pakistan) are of the opinion that “according to clear cut Hadeeth”, Armenia cannot be supported
5. The supposed “mistranslation” of the first part of Hadeeth has on bearing on the conclusion


Azerbaijan not “Shia”


1. I contacted Darul-Iftaa Jamiatur-Rasheed (Karachi) to get details for Mufti Abu Lubaba Shah Mansoor (HA) in Istanbul, they asked me why so I told them about Azerbaijan. They replied to say that they have already asked and Mufti Saheb (HA) asked another Mufti to answer the issue who knows Azerbaijan
2. They forwarded me the Urdu message and gave me permission to share it.
3. They also forwarded me Arabic messages from Turkish Ulama
4. I also checked in Pakistan with couples who have done their Honeymoon in Baku (Azerbaijan) and the Mosques call out Sunni (standard) Adhan and pray times. I know that very very well that of Pakistanees generally doing their Honeymoon in Baku (Azerbaijan)
5. I then went through many Media sources (English, Turkish, Azeri and Urdu) and specifically looked for “Shia” Adhan or Shia rituals in the war and did not find any. There might be some but I did not find any so it leads me to conclude that majority are Sunni.

All of this I shared with Shaykh Sulayman Al-Kindi (HA) and asked his sources for declaring Azerbaijan (Shia) other than Wikpedia. I admitted that he didn’t know any of this but neither disclosed his sources nor changed his mind.

But blocked me on Twitter!


Azerbaijan being an “Island” ?


1. I did my research and found the chain to be defective but I am a nobody so ignored my research.
2. Imam Shams ad-Dīn adh-Dhahabī (RA) declared the chain to be defected
3. I then checked the Urdu translation of another Shaykhul-Hadeeth and the adopted this opinion
4. I did not include this Hadeeth in my analysis but quoted Mufti Saeed Saheb (HA) that it is “possible” that it applied to Azerbaijan
5. I even make a statement in my video about “political support”.

After all this, I and Mufti Saeed Saheb (HA) get accused of “twisting the Hadeeth”.

I of being judgemental, having preconceived ideas and notions.


All I am asking for is from those who disagree to bring forth their research and let us judge your opinion and sources.

These "South Africans" have accused Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) of Kuf'r so who am I if I am being blocked on Twitter and personally targeted? And they have been doing it to me for years....All I do is expose the "research" and diligence on a specific topic!

And I have "preconceived support for Azerbaijan" due to Nationalism after doing all of the above but they are quoting Wikipedia about Azerbaijan being Shia and sticking to it and I am the one with the problem! :)

P.S: Yes Irony died, I know...:) :) :)
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,374
Sister
1,808
bint e aisha's avatar
#37 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 16:57
Muadh_Khan wrote:
Appeal to Honest/Fair People:

Honest and fair? Ok I am here at your disposal.

Quote:
This line has always existed in all my posts

Imam Shams ad-Dīn adh-Dhahabī (RA) has graded this narration as munqati' (broken).

Yes I acknowledge that.

Quote:
My question is that if the South African Maulana and our Sister has overlooked it (as a human error),

I did not overlook the grading and I never discussed the grading in my posts, neither did Maulana if I'm not wrong. He commented on the interpretation which I reproduced on here.

Quote:
why can't they believe that I or Mufti Saeed (as humans) can also make a mistake in translation of the first part of the Hadeeth?

No doubt about that.

I saw the picture posted by Sister Acacia in her tweets and I realized that you translated the hadith from Urdu to English, not from the original Arabic because the Urdu translation had these errors.

Quote:
They can make mistakes and overlook
But I or Mufti Saeed (HA) cannot make mistakes and have deliberately twisted a Hadeeth

I have neither accused you nor Mufti Sahab of deliberately twisting any hadith.

Quote:
I have been blocked on Twitter for just pointing out that if its a mistake tell us instead of issuing "Fatwaas" that we are twisting the words of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

I have read the entire thread on Twitter and Shaykh did point out these mistakes there but if he really blocked you just for stating the above then I don't approve of this type of behavior.

Hope that clarifies my position.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-9,867
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#38 [Permalink] Posted on 15th December 2020 17:18
bint e aisha wrote:
View original post


All research and original recordings of the Ulama were shared with him on WhatsApp, this is his response:



Disagree with me anytime, anywhere and point out my mistakes provided that you are able to display your research and due diligence. If you have grounds to disagree with the on the ground opinion about Jamatur-Rasheed Ulama in Turkey and Azerbaijan share it with me and I will discuss it with the Ulama about Azerbaijan being Shia. If you don't then fairness and equity demands that you accept the research and change your opinion on the issue. If you don't then at least don't make throw away accusations of being "Nationalist" or "Pre-Concieved" or whatever to others...

If you do not believe that the prohibition to support from Armenia is binding from hadeeth, once again share your research and commentaries from classical sources and again I will take your research to the Ulama. The "mistranslation" has no bearing on the conclusions about Armenia.

The issue about Azerbaijan being an "Island" is a possibility expressed by Mufti Saeed Saheb (HA), I have not even included it in in analysis so your research is "interesting" but makes no difference to opinions expressed.

As I said, YOU are not South African so don't try to be one. Be Fair and Conscious of reckoning on the day of Judgement in front of Allah Ta'ala.

You, my daughter are better then this!
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,374
Sister
1,808
bint e aisha's avatar
#39 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd January 2021 16:32
Map showing "Al-Jazeerah".

Loading tweet
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top