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12JUL2020: Armenia Invades Azerbaijan

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 30th November 2020 14:50
Jazakallahu Khairan. I didn't know Armenia has been mentioned in Hadith.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 30th November 2020 15:05
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 30th November 2020 16:17
"This is not a religious war. This war is purely based on nationalism and Turks are supporting their Azeri brothers on nationalistic grounds." says Orya Maqbool Jan

youtu.be/TkomHF3gvFM
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 10th December 2020 19:34
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2020 03:24
Salaam

Is there any indication in the hadith as to which island is being referred to when it talks about the island being destroyed? How is this hadith linked to Azerbaijan?
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2020 11:00
xs11ax wrote:
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Walaikumus Salam

Al-Jazeera is a known geographic region since early Islam and it is in the South of Armenia. It is clear as daylight that Mufti Saeed Khan Sahab has made an obvious blunder by translating al-Jazeera as Azerbaijan which is in the East of Armenia.

Take a look at these maps and inshaAllah you will get a clear picture as to what al-Jazeera is:


Abbasid Provinces during the caliphate of Harun al-Rashid - 786 to 809



The Middle East in the latter half of the 13th Century



The Growth of the Ottoman Sultanate from the early 14th to 15th Centuries



The Later Timurid Period


Source of these maps: www.princeton.edu/~humcomp/dimensions.html



Wikipedia wrote:
Upper Mesopotamia is the name used for the uplands and great outwash plain of northwestern Iraq, northeastern Syria and southeastern Turkey, in the northern Middle East. Since the early Muslim conquests of the mid-7th century, the region has been known by the traditional Arabic name of al-Jazira (Arabic: الجزيرة‎ "the island", also transliterated Djazirah, Djezirah, Jazirah) and the Syriac variant Gāzartā or Gozarto (ܓܙܪܬܐ).

wikipedia . org /wiki/Upper_Mesopotamia
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2020 12:04
bint e aisha wrote:
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Maybe I'm being dense.

What indication is there that this area (South of Armenia) was being referred to as al-jazeera in the above quoted hadith? (The hadith about the island being in peace.)

In comparison, the island of dajjal is also al-jazeera in the hadith of Tamim Ad-Dari. What makes this al-jazeera different to the other al-jazeera?

I don't understand Arabic, but I understand that there are certain nuances in the Arabic language that can provide a detailed understanding of the hadith. So what is present in the above hadith (island being in peace) that is not present in the Tamim Ad-Dari hadith, that indicates the above hadith is referring to South of Armenia?

Edit: To be honest, when I first read the hadith about the island being in peace, my mind instantly thought about the island of dajjal.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2020 13:21
xs11ax wrote:
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You've made a very interesting connection and I'm in no position to comment on this. You should check this with a scholar of hadith.

I don't know if these two ahadith are talking about the same jazeerah or not but when you look at the above mentioned hadith, it says al-Jazeerah (definite noun indicated by ال) while the hadith of Hazrat Tameem ad-Dari RA uses indefinite words like فَسَقَطَ إِلَى جَزِيرَةٍ (and thus landed at an island) and فِي جَزِيرَةٍ مِنْ جَزَائِرِ الْبَحْرِ (on an island among the islands at sea). I'm not sure if it has any significance but as I said before it's something that needs to be looked at by a scholar.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2020 14:06
bint e aisha wrote:
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Quote:
I don't know if these two ahadith are talking about the same jazeerah or not but when you look at the above mentioned hadith, it says al-Jazeerah (definite noun indicated by ال) while the hadith of Hazrat Tameem ad-Dari RA uses indefinite words like فَسَقَطَ إِلَى جَزِيرَةٍ (and thus landed at an island) and فِي جَزِيرَةٍ مِنْ جَزَائِرِ الْبَحْرِ (on an island among the islands at sea).


I noticed that as well, but I don't know how or if this affects the understanding of the hadith. Inshallah someone will have an explanation.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2020 01:16
bint e aisha wrote:
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Your case looks strong but best to consult with a scholar ideally with Mufti Saeed sahab himself for clarification.

For the record, Mufti sahab's name is "Muhammad Saeed Khan" and not "Saeed Ahmed".
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2020 07:47
muslimman wrote:
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JazakAllah. I can't find his contact details on his website. www.seerat.net/AboutUs/
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 14th December 2020 02:45
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 14th December 2020 14:24
muslimman wrote:
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I treat her like my daughter so let her read this post and if she wants to, please do me a personal favour and post point 5 in the group, once she has digested and evaluated it (if she still needs to).

Before a person can disagree, it is important for people to understand someone’s perspective. This is the exact opposite of South Africans but we live in Democracy so South Africans deserve the right to air their views and accuse everyone who disagrees with them with “Kuf’r” "bending Hadeeth" etc and it is everyone else’s right to join in the mudslinging without understanding an issue etc.

Each to their own, I guess…

No need to ask her to Join WhatsApp groups.

Issue 1: Armenia

She is arguing about the Hadeeth being mistranslated into English but I have checked with multiple Ulama and Darul-ulooms and in the light of this Authentic Hadeeth a Muslim CANNOT back Armenia.

She agrees that we shouldn’t back Armenia but we are saying that it is due to this clear, unambiguous and straightforward Hadeeth.

عَنْ أَبِي الدَّرْدَاءِ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ، قَالَ : إِذَا خُيِّرْتُمْ بَيْنَ الْأَرَضِينَ ، فَلَا تَخْتَارُوا أَرْمِينِيَةَ ، فَإِنَّ فِيهَا قِطْعَةٌ مِنْ عَذَابِ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى

If she disagrees, her and whoever she is following can eat a plate of Biryani because their opinion is irrelevant and flatly wrong on this Hadeeth no matter about the English translation.



Issue 2: Azerbaijan being “Shia”

Majority of Shia in Azerbaijan are merely Shia by name and not in practise. This we have checked with Ulama like Mufti Abu Lubaba Shah Mansoor (HA) and others who have on the ground knowledge of Azerbaijan.

I also know and checked with plenty of those who have been to Baku and my Twitter timeline is filled with Azeri military conquest videos and you can hear their Adhan and Adhkaar, no issues with Shia'ism

There is a movement in Azerbaijan for people to return to their Turkish (Sunni) roots and Government also backs it (or turns a blind eye to it) due to Foreign policy reasons.

If she disagrees, her and whoever she is following can eat another plate of Biryani because their opinion is irrelevant!

I am confident in OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) and testimony of on the ground Ulama on the issue.

Issue 3: Azerbaijan and the moral position

Nagorno-Karabakh is Internationally recognised to belong to Azerbaijan and Armenia occupied and expelled the local population and committed genocide. Islam demands us to back the oppressed so we will back Azerbaijan (on moral and ethical grounds) just like Kashmir etc.

If she disagrees, her and whoever she is following can eat another plate of Biryani because their opinion is irrelevant!

Simple people with the ability to “Google” get this but we live in an era of Dajjal where clarity is lost and confusion occupies minds. Frankly, if a person cannot figure this out from a moral/ethical point of view then they can't be helped...

Issue 4: Azerbaijan and Israel?

Pakistan and Turkey back Azerbaijan.
Israel backs Azerbaijan

So in their simplistic mind, this is somehow needs to be placed at the feet of Muslims (who support Azerbaijan) , let me give an example

Saudi Arabia has diplomatic and trade ties with Israel, so all those who wish to go to Haramain at fault?

If she disagrees, her and whoever she is following can just drink some water for their silliness because they don’t deserve this Biryani!

Let them enjoy their childish memes and cartoons. Foreign policy is complex and nuanced, their brains cannot wrap around it. Whether Azerbaijan has Israeli weapons or not has no bearing on Nagorno-Karabakh belonging to Azerbaijan and "Muslims" being expelled by Armenia from their homelands.

Issue 5: Azerbaijan being “Island”

This narration is disconnected and does not figure into our analysis at all. In this analysis, Mufti Saheb focuses on the Middle East being the epicenter

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ95g9Y6ioI

In this video which she is referring to Mufti Saheb (HA) says that there is a “possibility” that this Island refers to Azerbaijan. No where did he declare or twist this Hadeeth to apply to Azerbaijan, he says in plain Urdu that it could...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PUJ-JWKXY

This Hadeeth isn’t part of my analysis on the situation at all, although I do mention it.

عَنْ كَعْبٍ ، قَالَ : الْجَزِيرَةُ آمِنَةٌ مِنَ الْخَرَابِ حَتَّى تَخْرَبَ أَرْمِينِيَةُ ، وَمِصْرُ آمِنَةٌ مِنَ الْخَرَابِ حَتَّى تَخْرَبَ الْجَزِيرَةُ ، وَالْكُوفَةُ آمِنَةٌ مِنَ الْخَرَابِ حَتَّى تَخْرَبَ مِصْرُ ، وَلَا تَكُونُ الْمَلْحَمَةُ حَتَّى تَخْرَبَ الْكُوفَةُ ، وَلَا تُفْتَحُ مَدِينَةُ الْكُفْرِ حَتَّى تَكُونَ الْمَلْحَمَةُ ، وَلَا يَخْرُجُ الدَّجَّالُ حَتَّى تُفْتَحَ مَدِينَةُ الْكُفْرِ





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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 14th December 2020 17:22
Wow I'm gonna have three plates of biryani and a glass of water. Thank you father dearest!
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 14th December 2020 21:12
bint e aisha wrote:
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Absolutely daughter dear enjoy the Biryani because your mind cannot get past two issues:

  • Azerbaijan being “Shia” so your heart and mind is dead focused on Azmat-e-Sahaba (RA) and you are making subconscious connections with your experience and knowledge of “Ithna-Ashari” Shia
  • Conflict being Nationalistic and those supporting Azerbaijan also doing it for Nationalistic reasons (in your opinion).


Your analysis about the English translation of first Hadeeth is irrelevant to the part about not supporting “Armenia”. Whether the English translation (of 1st and middle) is faulty or the Hadeeth is about Sahaba (RA), the part of Armenia still stands to this day.

The simplest example is this verse:

Loading Qur'aan Verse

The Modernists/Secularists say that this verse is clearly a command to the "wives and daughters" of Prophet (Peace be upon Him) and we say that it apples to all women until the day of judgement.

"IF" the command about Armenia was directed towards the Sahabah (RA) it is equally applicable to Muslims (today) and that is the interpretation of multiple Ulama. It did not just apply to Sahaba (RA) and stopped applying to us!

Your analysis about the second Hadeeth is superfluous because the Hadeeth isn’t authentic.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line so the easiest route is to contact Jamatur-Rasheed in Karachi and they can share Mufti Abu Lubaba Shah Mansoor (HA)’s opinion who teaches 4-5 Iftaa courses in Istanbul and has students from Turkey, Syria and Azerbaijan along with other Ulama who travel to Azerbaijan (as well) regularly.

This of course is unexciting and will force you to confront your deep held views which I understand isn’t a very comfortable thing to do.

(Sunni) Saudi Arabia is bombing and killing (Shia) Muslims in Yemen by the hundreds. Shia (cult aside) Islam does not support backing up the oppressor so f Iran gets (wrongly) attacked tomorrow and its citizens get bombed, we will support Iran and try out best to stop the bombing of innocent civilians while we bitterly oppose the disrespect of Sahaba (RA) by Irani (Shia) clerics. Our Islam (in consultation with Ulama) allows us to uphold both principles. It so happens that Azerbaijan isn’t even fully “Shia” just pointing that out again for absolute clarity.

Lastly, plenty of soldiers die for Pakistan (due to Nationalistic reasons) and they are Shaheed as per the unanimous opinion of Ulama. Read the account of “young” Maulvi Taqi Usmani (HA) of 1965 Pakistan war!

Not every Muslim is an expert on Aqeedah and able to read and understand multiple languages and write a PhD Thesis on intentions. Read the Accounts of wars of Muslims throughout History.

Aye puttar hattan te nayein wikday
Ki labni aye wich bazaar kure
Aye dain aye mere data di
Na aiwein takran maar kure!
Aye puttar wikao cheez nayein
Mul de ke choli paiye ni
Aye aida sasta maal nayein
Kiton ja ke mang liyaiyni
Aye sauda nakd wi milda nayein
Tu labdi phirein udhar kure!
Aye sher bahadur ghazi nein
Aye kise kolun wi harde nayein
Ena dushmanan kolon ki darna
Aye maut kolon wi darde nayein


In a war between Kuffar (Armenia) vs Muslims (Azerbaijan) when the Kuffar (Armenians) have usurped Muslim lands (Nagorno-Karabagh) and expelled Sunni (Hanafi) & Shia population from the mountainous region we will back Muslims, you can enjoy Biryani and attempt to sow as much doubt as you wish in a clear cut issue of Islam and write post after post on multiple forums.

In a war between Turkey and Greece we will back the Nationalistic & Secular Turkish armed forces 100% of the time and we will consider who die fighting as "Shaheed"

In a war between India and Pakistan we will back the Nationalistic & Secular Pakistani armed forces 100% of the time and we will consider who die fighting as "Shaheed"

You can stand in front of Allah Ta'ala and answer for yourself and preset your analysis to Allah Ta'ala, Insha'Allah. We simply support Muslims when they are oppressed by Kuffar when the lands of Muslims are taken and war is inflicted upon Muslims for no reason!
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