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The Reality of Western Society.

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 07:44
We were reading or hearing about the Western culture from scholars here in Indian sub-continent. It was like a strong warning that if you adopt the western culture, these are the results. I have heard or read it from Ali Mian Nadvi RA, Mufti Taqi Usmani sab DB, Peer Zulfiqar sab DB, maulana Tariq Jameel sab DB, Maulana Umar sab Palanpuri RA and other beloved scholars.

The scholars were saying, It is "Daulat hi sab kutchh", money is first priority in the west.

The trump's statement that "Cure is worse than disease itself, more people will die due to loss of jobs than Corona Virus itself, there will be mass suicides". We take it as; Surviving is at higher priority than living healthy or worse than death itself.

Is that the cause for increased number of corona cases and deaths due to corona in the West.

Muftisays forum members are in general pious, this may not be the case with these pious Muslims. But the happenings around them is visible, they have first hand experience about this. Can members here share their experiences and then either prove our scholars are/were right or the scholars are wrong.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 08:13
ssaad wrote:
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I add Allamah Iqbal RA to the list of thinkers.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 10:02
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(salam)

There is actually debate among experts between what is more damaging, economic stagnation or widespread loss of life. This argument is best left to the experts and policy makers who have to live with the consequences of their decisions. I for one am thankful that I don't have to shoulder any responsibility for such a difficult decision.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 10:11
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If you hear the statement of trump, he concludes "We can't allow our dominance we have achieved to slip away, we have return to our jobs"

Is it society's voice.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 10:13
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Salaam.

I would say money (and materialism) is priority all over the world not just in the West. The West are just ahead of the game.

Please explain if this is not true for India.

My family are from India. Our village, land, and houses in India are barren and empty because everyone just wants to come to the West to make £$£$£$. They leave the easy, care free, life of the village to come to the West to work in factories and live in tiny houses in a cold and damp country. Their quality of life suffers just to make money.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 10:48
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Let us not discuss about brothers who do taqleed of the west. Let us discuss about the real western society. About people who created this society and running this society.

We can say, brothers who migrated to west are, Taqdeer brought them here.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 11:26
Let me share my experience.

I discussed with an European. I asked "why don't you get married". He replied "Aaaaah, (a big Nooooooo!!). Marriage!!!, procedures, impossible divorce.. divorce is expensive. She is from Philippines, I am from Germany, both are here for 5 years. After 5 years, good bye"

So family system is broken. It is revolving around materialism.

Let us discuss about this bankrupt society.

Many more such experiences.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 11:35
If a non muslim reads this couplet, he would declare Allama Iqbal RA to be a great Astrologer or a soothsayer.


magrib ki tabahi iqbal.jpg
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:03
xs11ax wrote:
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Quote:
I would say money (and materialism) is priority all over the world not just in the West. The West are just ahead of the game.


Let me share how pious families are peacefully living among the muqallids of the west here in Indian cosmopolitan cities.

1. Saadagi tamam nabion ki sunnat hai aur saadagi mein aasaanian hain. Simplicity is the sunnah of all prophets, simplicity makes life simpler.

2. Stick to Halal, keep Haram away from our lives. It looks very difficult, We are witness to our juniors, (here we call them 'helpers') buying expensive cars on interest bearing loans and we commuting by public transport or by walk to office. They are constructing expensive independent houses, we are living in rented houses. OK... halal mein barkat hai. Sometime later we can experience the Barakaath.

3. Simple clothing, simple houses, simple marriages etc., means, to limit ourselves to necessities, no 'show off;. It will be our life and we enjoy the life. Dusroen Ke Liye Jeena Chhod Doe. Scholars give an example, if some one sticks to plain white shirt and black trousers............. He enjoys his life.

4. When we have surplus budget, we can offer our savings as sadaqaath. Dua helps in living peacefully.

5. Don't join the race created by our society.... I met one person in this race, he was saying "Bhai, I have to run to stay at my present place". Let us not run, let us walk.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:45
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There are many people who live like this in UK, America, Amsterdam, and worse places as well. It's not limited to India.

What is Taqleed of the west? Or western culture?

The scholars are right with the observation of "Money is everything" mentality but as xs11ax has rightly said, it's a global problem and not just the west. Greed is more rampant nowadays globally. Most frauds and scams originate from Nigeria, India and China according to various statistics, data and public research. So the difference is while the West has a cultural illness of "career" over living, the East has a problem of "money" over morality. Both damaging and dangerous in their own ways.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:47
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There are people like this in the West as well.

There are people like this on this forum who are from the West.

With respect let me sat this, it seems the issue with you is you start a debate based on an assumption regardless if the assumption is correct or not.

You are comparing people of the West with the East with the assumption that one chases money and material and the other doesn't. I believe both do, but according to their own level and advancement relative to their place and time.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:50
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Maulana this booklet will explain what is "taqleed of west"
Dunya Par Islam Ke Ehsanaat Aur Maghrib Ke Mazalim
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:55
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Kindly read this statement in my OP
Muftisays forum members are in general pious, this may not be the case with these pious Muslims. But the happenings around them is visible, they have first hand experience about this. Can members here share their experiences and then either prove our scholars are/were right or the scholars are wrong.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:57
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Of course people in the West chase money and material life. The same way people in the east do the same.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2020 14:57
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Any chance you can provide bullet points to highlight the key things? It will be very beneficial for everyone. Jazakallah
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