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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2020 11:25
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Please maintain respect for each other and Ulamaa (if topic is about a scholar) by avoiding accusations and slanderous comments. Also remember that in order for criticism to be constructive, it must be channeled in the right direction. If there is any doubt in a matter, it is better to ask, clarify or to remain silent rather than to speak ill of another person.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2020 13:59
I tried to spend some time on this issue but could not process the matter.

Thus I'll need your help.

A maverick has lost credibility. This does not look like much of a loss to me.

Have I got it or missed it?
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 01:07
5
There should be another rating feature in this forum. "Half Truth". When narrative of only one side is being presented in a post and the viewpoint of the other side is completely ignored and a biased opinion is presented to further a certain agenda. This kind of mentality is reflected in the mainstream media today. This was Hilter's strategy in Nazi Germany to control the minds of the Germans. Similar tactic was adopted by Stalin, Mao and every oppressive regime on earth throughout history.

All of the canons are pointed towards the reactions of a certain segment of the society to which these outsiders don't belong. However, they ignore to mention the actions of the authorities responsible who started the whole game. This is unjust, false, fake and deceptive.

It is very clear that media was not allowed in tribal areas during the disturbance. And any fatwa in favor or against the respective organization would have been invalid and one sided, hence the silence of ulema. It is the policy of this forum that disrespecting the ulema is not allowed. Therefore, any such activity from any individual including me should be discouraged by the moderators unmercifully. Pointing out some black sheep is another thing but blaming a whole school of thought or group of ulema for the wrongs of some individuals without fair analysis of the complete situation is disastrous, dangerous and unethical.

This is a public forum and people must be cautious in furthering an anti ulema narrative who are already targeted by the liberals and the secular media. They must not be allowed to spread their hatred filled poison here. They can do their slandering, accusing and hating somewhere else. I am really sad that from the outlooks of this forum, it looks more salafi than sunni.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 04:22
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It is the policy of this forum that disrespecting the ulema is not allowed

Funny, because it seems this is mostly what this forum is about.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 10:41
fod1083 wrote:
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If this is the message we are sending to visitors to our site then we need to rectify this.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 21:18

Maripat wrote:
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All you old Sunniforum people must have memory of a Goldfish when you don't remember things and keep getting confused.

The grand-Mufti of TTP (Tahreek-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan) used to frequently quote Deobandi Ulama (Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)) in particular all the time. Many Deobandees had a soft corner towards this movement. Then Jamia Hafsa happened, once again a Deobandi affiliated incident.

Then things began to turn for the worse and got ugly. The acts of Terrorism came think and fast and the Nation was paralysed, petrified and mortified. Ulama issued GENERAL Fatwa but people did not know what was right or what was wrong because they were not specific. I can tell you Sunniforum members who defended TTP through thick and thin (not their fault) because they did not know.

Then Peshawar attack happened and Pakistan went on a war footing against Terrorism, public opinion turned overnight.

As an example, look at the issue with Maulana Saad (HA), Peer Zulfiqar (HA) etc...The issues surrounding them are clear as daylight but Silence causes two problems:

  1. Some people get involved in Slander and accusations
  2. Some people do not know and then suffer.

This is just an issue, now imagine Terrorism and 71,000 people DYING in PAKISTAN due to not being able to make up their minds. Sons strapped bombs to their bodies and blew themselves up because they were NOT sure which side to follow. I have read Interview transcripts myself of suicide bombers whose jackets failed to detonate.

Lets speak about Peer Zulfiqar Saheb (HA), his Mureeds are in ISI and Army and NOBODY in Pakistan has the guts to talk about it YET the facts are clear.



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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 02:45
The real question still remains unanswered. Who started this all and who brought it to this stage? Where were the "terrorists" before 2004.

The thing is that might is always right in this unjust world.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 03:53
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This seems to suggest that the TTP issue in Pakistan is not as black and white as it is being portrayed. There are some nuances to it.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 04:00
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No sane person justifies what TTP has done. The thing is that why they were forced to do what they did and who forced them?

The late Dr.Israr Ahmed RH acknowledged this fact and he certainly was an unbiased intellectual with good memory and caring heart.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbBYCkQcA6w

No doubt! That lion had the guts to call a spade a spade. He was the best candidate to work for khilafah. My love and duas for him. May Allah increase his ranks in Jannah.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 06:27
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I think you love fish.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 13:20

abuzayd2k wrote:
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You got to understand how things work in life versus in discussion on a forum.

In real life, when Fatawa of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) are quoted, a certain group immediately responds and (at least) their sympathises are shifted towards it.

In the West, Salafees do this by naming their institutions "Abu Haneefa xyz..." and it immediately hits the nail on the head.

THEN, remember that enemies of Islam are pumping billions into causing chaos, destruction and mayhem so they use the sympathises of people and manipulate them.

In the West, (simplistic) Muslims say HOW CAN an organisation called "Abu Haneefa xyz.." be Salafi that doesn't even make any sense!

There are Panjpiri Deobandees in Pakistan who may not even be Muqallids of Hanafi Madhab (in strict terms) but BECAUSE there have the title "Deobandees" in their names, people overlook everything else.

The kind of Muslims who operate at such a simplistic level of being affected by mere quotations of Hazrat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) or "Imam Abu Haneefa xyz" are not grounded in knowledge to be making clear distinctions so they get brainwashed. We are not talking about the likes of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) or Shaykhul-Islam Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) but simpleton Muslims who fall for an Institute called "Imam Abu Haneefa xyz"

For the sake of these kind of people (and suicide bombers are usually this kind of people) you need CLEAR guidance.

Do X

Don't do Y


Majority of people are not Forum vistors who discuss a topic for 500 days in detail, majority of people are simple, innocent and naive.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 14:46
There is a saying "If you tie the knot then you must untie it".

Ulema were not responsible to give a fatwa against an organization which came into being as a reaction of the stupid actions of the state at that time. Ulema are not ideal and certainly not angels but blaming everything on ulema is totally wrong.

The government of that time should have thought about the consequences before hand , before it started to attack her own civilians knowing fully well that India, Israel and USA will take advantage of the situation.

71k casualties are not the result of inactivity of ulema but the wrong activity of the government of that time. Also we must not forget Raymond Davis, Black Water, XE and what not.

The question still remains unanswered. "Where were these terrorists before 2004 and who forced them to do what they did?"

Our people have a tendency to bury the real issue under the dust, hoping that things will get solved automatically by taking superficial and artificial measures.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 15:39

Coronavirus is not caused by the Ulama and neither are they responsible for it. It be made up in a lab by CIA/Moassad OR it could be natural.

But it kills!

Mosques are a potent and potential point where individuals with varied ages and Health conditions interact. It is the JOB of the Ulama to make people understand the hazards of the issue which is PRESENT RIGHT NOW and clearly issue advise on how to safeguard against ILLNESS & DEATH.

No doubt that Ulama can sit aside and declare:

  1. Who caused CoronoVirus?
  2. Why were they careless?
  3. Is it manmade or made by the CIA
  4. Lets examine the issue and perform a root cause analysis

P.S: Replace the word "CoronaVirus" with "Terrorism" and change the setting to Pakistan i.e. 71,000 people died while clear guidance was not issued. It's not a fault per say but lessons learned. It is repeating itself in the case of Maulana Saad and Peer Zulfiqar etc.

I know Ulama who are warning against Peer Zulfiqar in private but REFUSE to issue even the mildest warning in public. Replace the issue with "Terrorism" and change the setting to Pakistan i.e. 71,000 people died


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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 16:10
Even if the ulema would have issued fatwas against the said organization, how could that change the situation knowing it fully well that the state and other powers were killing civilians in tribal areas.

What has happened to the intellect of our people. They throw bombs and expect roses?

How many members of the said organization were from other parts of the country and how many of them were from the tribal areas and from the homes of those who were affected by those illegal operations of the government and international powers?
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