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Is there Ijma on Earth being stationary

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 10:07
Yasin wrote:
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What about this brother Yasin?

Quote:
Quraan_says :
"Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing (Zawaal)"
[Surah Fatir, 35:41]

The Messenger of Allaah (P.B.U.H) said regarding Abdullaah Ibn Mas'ood :
"Learn Qur'an from four people, (firstly) Abdullah ibn Mas'ood..."
[Saheeh Bukhaari 1:531]
"The thing which Abdullaah Ibn Mas'ood tells you, consider it authentic"
[Jaame' Tirmeezi 2:221]

Explanation_of_the_verse [35:41] by Abdullaah_ibn_Mas'ood :
Hadrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood was made to know that Ka'b said that (the Earth and) the Skies are on the shoulder of an angel and they are rotating, he replied to them that Ka'b said the wrong thing and read the above verse, 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing...'
[Ad-durr Al Mansoor, Saheeh Bukhari and Muslim]

This proves that near Hadrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood, neither of the skies or Earth is rotation or revolving, he believed that the Skies and Earth are stationary.
Thus, by the command of the beloved messenger of Allaah, it is necessary for us to believe in the stationary of the Earth.

Allamah Nizaam ud Deen Nishapuri wrote in Raghaib ul Furqan under this ayah:


إن الله يمسك السموات والأرض
أي يمنعهما من
أن تزولاً
أو كراهة زوالهما عن مقرهما ومركزهما


"Meaning, Allah has stopped the heavens and the earth; that they do not move from their stations and places."


The word قرار refers to stillness and negation of movement, it says in Qamus al Muheet: قر سکن , which means قر refers to stillness.

Under the ayah ٱلَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ ٱلأَرْضَ فِرَٰشاً, Imam Fakhr ud Deen Razi writes in Tafsir Kabeer:


اعلم أن كون الأرض فراشاً مشروط بأمور: الشرط الأول: كونها ساكنة


"Know that the earth being a bed is conditioned by it being stationary"


الأرض غير متحركة لا بالاستدارة ولا بالاستقامة


"The earth is not moving with rotation nor is it moving directly"


سكون الأرض ليس إلا من الله تعالى


"The stillness of the earth is not except from Allah Talaa"


بقدرته واختياره ولهذا قال الله تعالى: إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُمْسِكُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوٰتِ وَٱلأَرْضَ أَن تَزُولاَ


"By His Qudrat and Ikhtiyaar and for this reason Allah Talaa says: 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing’"


Under the same ayah in Gharaib ul Quran it is written:


لا يتم الافتراش عليها ما لم تكن ساكنة

"Making the earth into a bed is not complete until it is not stationary”


Afqahus Sahabah after Khulafa Arbaa, Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Masood and Sahib e Sirr e RasoolAllah ﷺ Hazrat Huzdhayfah bin al Yaman RadiAllahu Anhum understood the ayah in Surah Fatir to mean absolute negation of movement, to the extent they narrated that even staying in one place and rotating around its axis is also Zawaal.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 10:15
saa10245 wrote:
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Brother, please define the term "Convulsing"
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 11:26
abu mohammed wrote:
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I just quoted what the ulema of the past says and what is your view of them?

Allamah Nizaam ud Deen Nishapuri wrote in Raghaib ul Furqan under this ayah:


إن الله يمسك السموات والأرض
أي يمنعهما من /أن تزولاً / أو كراهة زوالهما عن مقرهما ومركزهما


"Meaning, Allah has stopped the heavens and the earth; that they do not move from their stations and places."


The word قرار refers to stillness and negation of movement, it says in Qamus al Muheet: قر سکن , which means قر refers to stillness.

Under the ayah ٱلَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ ٱلأَرْضَ فِرَٰشاً, Imam Fakhr ud Deen Razi writes in Tafsir Kabeer:


اعلم أن كون الأرض فراشاً مشروط بأمور: الشرط الأول: كونها ساكنة


"Know that the earth being a bed is conditioned by it being stationary"


الأرض غير متحركة لا بالاستدارة ولا بالاستقامة


"The earth is not moving with rotation nor is it moving directly"


سكون الأرض ليس إلا من الله تعالى


"The stillness of the earth is not except from Allah Talaa"


بقدرته واختياره ولهذا قال الله تعالى: إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُمْسِكُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوٰتِ وَٱلأَرْضَ أَن تَزُولاَ


"By His Qudrat and Ikhtiyaar and for this reason Allah Talaa says: 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing’"


Under the same ayah in Gharaib ul Quran it is written:


لا يتم الافتراش عليها ما لم تكن ساكنة

"Making the earth into a bed is not complete until it is not stationary


Afqahus Sahabah after Khulafa Arbaa, Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Masood and Sahib e Sirr e RasoolAllah ﷺ Hazrat Huzdhayfah bin al Yaman RadiAllahu Anhum understood the ayah in Surah Fatir to mean absolute negation of movement, to the extent they narrated that even staying in one place and rotating around its axis is also Zawaal.


Hazrat Imam Abu Malik Tabi Thiqah Jaleel Tilmeez e Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas gave Tafsir of Zawal to mean absolute movement.

Hadrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood was made to know that Ka'b said that (the Earth and) the Skies are on the shoulder of an angel and they are rotating, he replied to them that Ka'b said the wrong thing and read the above verse, 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing...'
[Ad-durr Al Mansoor, Saheeh Bukhari and Muslim]
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 11:46
The verse you are talking about with its translation from Mufti Taqi Usmani
سورہ فاطر آیت نمبر 41
اِنَّ اللّٰہَ یُمۡسِکُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ اَنۡ تَزُوۡلَا ۬ۚ وَ لَئِنۡ زَالَتَاۤ اِنۡ اَمۡسَکَہُمَا مِنۡ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡۢ بَعۡدِہٖ ؕ اِنَّہٗ کَانَ حَلِیۡمًا غَفُوۡرًا ﴿۴۱﴾
ترجمہ:
Undoubtedly, Allah holds back the heavens and the earth from leaving their existing state, and if they were to leave, there is none who can hold them back, except Him. Surely He is Forbearing, Most-Forgiving.
آسان ترجمۂ قرآن مفتی محمد تقی عثمانی
goo.gl/2ga2EU
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 11:51
Now if you look at this image, tell me what would happen if Allah wasn't holding them back. What would happen if they left their existing state?

Again, taken from the Tawaf thread
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 11:59
saa10245 wrote:
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Pretty much this brother...

Yasin wrote:
So yes it's very possible past scholars and maybe some today as well who may say the Earth is stationary but that's not evident from the Qur'aan.


Not just scholars but the whole world thought the Earth was stationary. There are many verses that became so much clearer with scientific and mathematical advancements.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 12:05
If the Earth stopped turning
Halalified YouTube Audio

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyCyJ2f6mQU

TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEO
But what would happen if the Earth suddenly stopped rotating?

Keep in mind, this is totally impossible.

Still, I find topics like this super interesting to think about.

If the Earth actually stopped rotating instantly, it would be very *very* bad for everything on the surface of the planet.

Consider this. If you're standing on the equator, you're traveling at 465 meters/second from West to East.

If the Earth put on the brakes, your momentum would keep you flying at the same speed until *friction* slowed you down.

Imagine the jumbled forests, oceans, buildings and unfortunate animals after that event - it would be carnage.

The atmosphere is also turning at 465 meters/second with us. If everything suddenly stopped, it would be like a simultaneous hurricane of epic proportions on almost every part of the planet.

The closer you get to the poles, however, the less damage it would cause.

If you were standing on the North Pole, you'd hardly feel it.

Let's imagine the Earth slowed down more gradually, taking a few days to come to a halt that didn't tear the landscape into fine mist of dirt, seawater and a variety of organic material.

The stars would hang fixed in the sky; only the planets would move around, continuing their paths around the Sun.

A day on Earth would now last 365 days. In other words, it would take a full year for Earth to fully orbit the Sun, bringing it back to the same location in the sky. Each year would include one long day, and then one long night. You can imagine how that would be devastating to plants and animals.

We get a hint of this at the poles, where you can experience weeks of permanent night and then weeks of permanent day. But imagine 6 months of night, followed by 6 months of day.

The planet's tilt gives us our seasons. As we define the Earth's tilt as its rotation in relation to the Sun. A stationary planet would effectively have no tilt at all.

Without that tilt, there'd be no axis, and no seasons. Although we would still have North and South poles.

Because of its rotation, turning once every day, the Earth is actually a flattened ball, or if you prefer, an oblate spheroid.

Without that rotation the Earth would become a perfect sphere. This sounds interesting and probably harmless, but it's actually a *big* problem.

Because of the Earth's bulge in the middle, the oceans are held out at the equator by 8 km. On perfect sphere Earth, the world's oceans would redistribute, flooding many regions of the planet with an immense volume of water.

We'd end up with a single continent around the middle of the planet, with oceans surrounding the north and south poles.

Let's assume that if the Earth stopped turning, the Earth's core would stop rotating within it as well.

This natural dynamo generates the magnetic field that surrounds our planet and protects life from radiation from space.

Whatever life still alive would be irradiated from the Sun and cosmic rays if it didn't live underground.

So, if the Earth suddenly stopped turning, it would be very bad, even catastrophically bad.

Fortunately, it's completely impossible for this to happen.


Maybe this could happen when Dajjal comes making 1 day equal to 1 year and so on.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 14:27
Yasin wrote:
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Ofcourse in Islam, scholars are NOT considered Masoom especially pertaining to secular sciences owing to the fact that science was at its infancy.

But what about the Hadith?

"Learn Qur'an from four people, (firstly) Abdullah ibn Mas'ood..."
[Saheeh Bukhaari 1:531]
"The thing which Abdullaah Ibn Mas'ood tells you, consider it authentic"
[Jaame' Tirmeezi 2:221]

And

Hadrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood was made to know that Ka'b said that (the Earth and) the Skies are on the shoulder of an angel and they are rotating, he replied to them that Ka'b said the wrong thing and read the above verse, 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing...'
[Ad-durr Al Mansoor, Saheeh Bukhari and Muslim]

Q) Surely, when Prophet (P.B.U.H) told about Abdullah Masood (R.A) that what he tells you consider it authentic, it is the belief of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah that whatever Prophet (P.B.U.H) spoke is the truth. How do you explain the hadith of Abdullah Masood?
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 14:32
saa10245 wrote:
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The Hadith still stands correct. It is the meaning of it that needs to be understood.

The translation you and the other scholars of the past have given, is not exactly accurate.

Hence:
abu mohammed wrote:
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And:
abu mohammed wrote:
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Therefore
abu mohammed wrote:
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 15th February 2019 14:41
saa10245 wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 16th February 2019 09:43

abu mohammed wrote:
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Problem we have as Muslims like using HALF SCIENCE, if someone wants to use science then use FULL SCIENCE

What is entropy?

In its simplest sense, the tendency for all things to go from order towards disorder.

Proof of Allah Ta'ala

The fact that planets remain in orbit and do not fall out or away from the orbit and their path is never affected by entropy is a PROOF that Allah Ta’ala is looking after their affairs.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 16th February 2019 16:15
saa10245 wrote:
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So what about the cases where madhabs differ from the position of Abdullah ibn Masood r.a.?
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 18th February 2019 23:56
abu mohammed wrote:
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Yasin wrote:
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I agree with your replies. However, there ARE some intricasies to this subject.

1)The basic principle for understanding the ayahs of the Quran and Hadiths of the Prophet (P.B.U.H) is that they be taken at their most absolute, literal and apparent meanings, unless there is a proof why they shouldn’t. Such proofs would be other ayahs, other hadiths, and ijmaa, while mere preference is not acceptable for this.
2) The scholars made an Ijma pertaining to this.The ijma of this ummah is infalliable. The ijma on this issue is based on Quran and the hadith. Such an Ijma cannot be called to be incorrect. It is impossible that all mujtahids agreed on certain tafsir of the verse. The point i am making is to search whether such an ijma exists or not. And i am looking for it.Some scholars do err in their declaration of ijma.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 10:03
Yasin wrote:
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Would you deem me in a position to translate this word in reference to the verse in question, other than what ulema (traditional) of the past has defined with?

1)How can I give the meaning of the word in reference to the verse without a scholarly qualification?
2)How can I interpret this figeratively when i don't have proof i.e. Ayats, hadith or Ijma?
3)How can I go against Ijma when it is known that it is impossible for all mujtahids to "err" pertaining this issue? The Ijma is based on evidence from Quran and Hadith.
4)The tawil is only valid if the evidences in support for this are not Mutawatir and Qati'yy Al istidlal.

Please Note: this is not an attempt to dodge your question but to make you see the significance of the matter, therein.
I would give the definition of this word "Shaking uncontrollably or violently" with the intention that this is not done to offer venue of "Tawil without proof" for the verse in question.

The thing i am looking for whether such an Ijma about the stationary nature of the earth exists or not. If it does, there's no need to offer tawil. The door for tawil is shut. One cannot go against an Ijma as far as i am aware.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 10:20
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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