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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 17:42
I would like to watch a munazara of Peer Sahab and Shaykh Ilyas Ghumman Sahab on this issue. That would be very interesting. I hope Maulana Ilyas Gumman has also seen this video.
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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 17:44
bint e aisha wrote:
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I don't know what he is but I certainly know that he is a very very complicated person. He is a universe in himself.
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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 17:49
When something isn't understood, it needs to be drilled into them, over and over and over again.

Even Allah does that in Surah Rahman!
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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 17:50
Seriously, after reading this forum, I can clearly see that we are children in adults body. This reminds me of a verse of Iqbal where he mentions that ulema of the past at some point wasted their time in fruitless philosophical debates and forgot or overlooked the real problems of their times.

The more I read this forum, the more I realize this fact that our problem at individual level is spiritual and not material and at global level it's political and not lack of scientific progress.

We are fighting here about labels and the kuffar are crushing us like ants. Is this called intelligence? Is this called knowledge? Is this called maturity?
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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 17:52
I am very sad that our talents are being wasted just like that. Brother Abdur Rahman is far better than us.
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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 17:58

bint e aisha wrote:
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I am going to state the same thing the 3rd time to you and let’s hope this time Allah Ta’ala open your heart so it can penetrate inside of you OR if it is penetrating your heart allows your Nafs to accept it.

Things are said in response and in a context so what is the context:

I know “abu Mohammed”

I was joking and being sarcastic in calling him and others “Deobandi”

If you add the context to this discussion, it will become clear as daylight that he IS DENYING the label in that thread and HERE. In other (and very simple terms) whether I am calling him ABC it is irrelevant because he is denying it openly and unambiguously. If I called you a 90 year Grandfather in another thread (and you said I am not), a 3rd person copies and pastes it here what would it do?

I know that You are understanding ALL OF THE ABOVE in plain and simple English!

Lastly, you have accused me of being pedantic and ignoring the obvious. Well! The obviousness (in your perception) also escapes the Mufti Azam of Pakistan (HA) and his father and a whole bunch of others. What is a non-issue (to you), is such an issue to him that he has decides to discuss this a GRAVE PROBLEM to a gathering of Ulama….So again, I know that you are clearly grasping and understanding it in plain English but your Nafs will keep on arguing and keep on twisting and keep on going.

The issue which your esteemed companion is raising about Maulana Ilyas Ghumman (HA) is also superfluous because multiple generations of scholars from Deoband (as in lineage) and graduation are denying the usage!

To top it all off, a large number of Indian/Bangladeshi Muslims DO NOT classify themselves as such. Since your exposure is to Pakistan (North Indian Muslims) this term to you is as dear as the Qur’aan and Sunnah…It is meaningless to most Muslims in native India where it originated from to many Muslims and is it NOT their identity.

In your mind you are misunderstanding a few concepts:

  1. Appreciation of the efforts in establishing the Deen by graduate of DU Deoband and its predecessors
  2. Appreciation of practise of Sunnah of those who are associated with DU Deoband and its branches
  3. Appreciation of sacrifices of those who are associated with DU Deoband and its branches
  4. Identification of “Deobandi” as a specific sect/cult/branch etc in Islam with specific tenants and underpinnings. 

There is no doubt about 1,2 & 3 but 4 is void! This is what Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) is saying in plain Urdu!

I know that You are understanding ALL OF THE ABOVE in plain and simple English!

sipraomer wrote:
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If you had the understanding and/or purity of Nafs you will REALISE that we are asking you to DROP the label, you are ARGUING in favour of a label!


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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:02
I think and I believe that Brother Maripat is the real hero of this forum. Okay! I don't understand the value of his methodology. Okay! I disagree with him. But I love that man's attitude, the way he behaves, the way he expresses himself. I admire that hazrat and love him from the core of my heart. What a gem we have got. He is a real human with enormous intelligence and such a beautiful, flowery and fragrant soul. What a kind hearted gentleman he is. What a civilized man he is. Never for even once, I have read him disrespect anyone or accuse anyone with false accusation. You think of others as you are yourself. He always finds the positives in others. Even in a person like Ghamidi. Ma Sha Allah, what an angel he is. May Allah give him more health, wealth, wisdom and long life. I absolutely love that guy even if I disagree. If Imam Mahdi doesn't come in the next 12 years then maybe I have to agree with him strategically also. But despite the disagreement, I love that person's mannerisms, his language, the way he expresses himself, his attitude. Marvelous. If I had access to his locality, I would have done bayt on his hands. Such a beautiful human being. Masha Allah La Quwata illabillah.
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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:11
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Please prove to me where i have said that Deoband is a sect. Give one example please. Seriously brother,

What can I say...

You ignored my "it" statement and other comments as well. I am only using this label to make my life easy. Okay! Out of necessity. I don't practice milad and I also don't go to Aulia kiram's graves and do tawaaf around them and I also don't do sajda to any other than Allah. I only want to say that neither i am barelvi nor salafi nor shia or any other person. I am Hanafi but because Barevlis call themselves Hanafi too so I am obliged to say that I am Deobandi Hanafi with the teachings they took from their teachers who were Hanafi even before Deoband came into being. From the video of Maulana Ilyas Sahab, I am not concerned with the terminologies he used about aqeedah etc etc. I was pointing out that if someone studies from his ulema and then he doesn't follow the teachings then he must not be associated with those ulema because it is the teachings which matter and not just the label. This is what I am saying and this is what you are saying. We both agree on this. So if that British Alim celebrates Christmas then it doesn't mean that all his teachers are corrupt. He has made this mistake. His teachers didn't teach him this. So when I say I belong to that group, I mean that I associate myself with those in that group who are still clinging to the true teachings of Ahnaf and not the polluted ones.

After that I don't know what to say...

Your nafs becomes happy when you just want to pick and choose statements of others out of context and turn small things in huge hurricanes and at the end win a trophy when you silence the other party because of your vast study. Sorry to say that. Allah Hafiz. (Yes I am running away. I don't want to continue... I think this will make you happy). So be happy.
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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:17

Zardari of Muftisays wrote:
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  1. I am asked to Prove...
  2. Then he says that he is running away

In two days this guy has lost his temper, he has abused, he has conflated, he has obfuscated, he has fled, he has accused and people say, “I am confused!

:lol



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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:20
I edited the post above and added some more clarification. Please re read that so that you get what I am trying to say.
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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:22
Call me names as much as you can. i am accountable for my words in front of Allah and I will refrain from treating you the same way. I apologize if in anger I have said wrong things to you. At the time I was posting those comments, I was literally shaking with anger and I recited my dhikr five times after Asr that day to calm myself down.
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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:26

sipraomer wrote:
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Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) i.e. Grand Mufti of Pakistan (not Mufti of England, not CIA, not Mossad, not Illuminati) has a problem with you using that label!

I understand that the rest of the technical arguments in this thread are beyond your understanding but I know that you fully, clearly and unambiguously understand in plain English what is written above.

Not saying that you agree OR accept it BUT saying that you understand it.

sipraomer wrote:
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Logoff, go away and drink water!

The Sunnah tells you to do so but your Nafs cannot bring you to follow it!

 
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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:28
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Are all the Muftis unanimous about it? If yes then I leave this label. If no then I keep this label for my own ease.
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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:34
Lol!

More like a lack of IQ!

Why do people automatically think it's the others at fault?

Why do people overlook their own faults?

I tell you what it is, it's pride, prejudice and arrogance.

We think we can't be wrong! We think we know what we are talking about! But from all of us, who actually has the courage to accept their misunderstandings//errors//confusion//lack of knowledge?

I might have got on certain members nerves, but I do it on purpose to make a valid point that they may be overlooking, but in reality, its others who are running away and walking along with a false impression.

I read something on this forum once where the example was something along the lines of....

When a thief was sitting in the gathering and the imam talked about thief's, the thief got annoyed. After the talk, he confronts the imam and asks, we're you talking about me? The imam said, Are you a thief? The man said no, so the imam said, then I ain't talking about you.

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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 18:35

sipraomer wrote:
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No but trying to treat you like a child and discuss one issue at a time.

Yesterday (or day before or whenever) you made a point that maybe in UK (Muslims or Muftees) advise not to be Deobandi.

First point is that it is not British Muslims or British Muftees or British Ulama but “Grand Mufti of YOUR OWN COUNTRY” who says it.

Once your Nafs swallows the first part, then we can discuss the rest of your misunderstandings in a clam, calculated manner.

As long as, you don’t have another emotional breakdown or go crazy and start opening more threads.


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