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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 01:57
@mkdon101:

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if we follow imam abu hanafi رضي الله عنه why not just stick to calling ourselves that rather than deobandi?


Which type of hanafi you are...?

Mutazila, qadriya, jahimiya, murjiya etc...?

Because most of them followed fiqh hanafi......!
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 10:32
Arfatzafar wrote:
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well IAH didnt follow any of their aqeedah so if u just say hanafi you are by default distancing urself from them deviants. also if you are giving aqeedah as preference as to what u identify youself as then why not just say ashari or maatruidi?
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 11:17
mkdon101 wrote:
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Point is whether or not someone can adhere himself/herself to any group of this ummah as an identification?

If someone calls himself as hanafi and he is surrounded by barelvis and deobandees and both are hanafis, then what is wrong if he says that he is a deobandee hanafi....?
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 11:23
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 11:34
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 11:59
As far as madhab is concerned, Hanafi is Global standard.
No point arguing with someone who is against madhab or Imam Abu Hanifa,..

Whats your verdict on Those who doesnt follow Deoband?
In Arab, Asia, Africa - there are madarasas 1000 years old and also they dont have link with Deoband,
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 12:06
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 12:16
Servant.Of.Allah wrote:
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No problem if someone doesn't follow deoband but the question is whether or not it's wrong to adhere to any sub group of hanafi madhab in case several sub groups of hanafi madhab exist...?

If not... Then which sub group of hanafi madhab represents true hanafi madhab...?
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 12:36

24 Hours later, no "Deobandi" has attempted to translate the speech or offered any explanation of calling themselves “Deobandi”.

Deoband was established in 1866, DO NOT obfuscate and switch to “Hanafi Madhab” as it is a separate argument.

Please refute Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA), his father Mufti Shafi Usmani (RA) and those before him who DID NOT identify themselves as “Deobandi” because there is NO SUCH THING!

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) NEVER called himself a "Deobandi" when he was a direct graduate of DU Deoband and he was in the middle of arguments with Maulana Raza Khan Barelwee (RA). In simpler words, he had a reason to distinguish himself from “Barelwees” because he was arguing with him (in real life) much more than any of the “Deobandees” on this forum.

The honourable sister can twist and turn all she wants instead of addressing the issue but I genuinely mean that “we live in a democracy” and she (and others) can call themselves whatever they want; just DO NOT involve Islam in it!

Identity Politics:

If you believe that from the time of Islam to 1865 you had no reason to use a label but from 1866-2018 you now need to identify yourself as “Deobandi”, the argument in itself leads to splintering as we now have “Hayati Deobandi” and “Mamati Deobandi”. Those who think that this is FICTION here is Darul-uloom Deoband Fatwa that praying behind a “Mamati Deoabndi” is Makrooh

www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/ur/Islamic-Beliefs/38882

www.banuri.edu.pk/readquestion/%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%A6%D9%84%D...

If you believe that “1866 Deobandi” is an extension of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat (earlier) then you need to provide:

  1. What was the title they used before “Deoband”?
  2. Why was that title abandoned?
  3. What was the purpose of abandoning that title and now changing to “Deoband”?
  4. If they did not use any titles before 1866 then would you at least accept that this is a brand new development in Islam?

The issue here is Allah Ta’ala calls you M-U-S-L-I-M but you have chosen to abandon that and chosen a title from 1866 (not from Salaf).

Let’s see how much more changing the subject people can do to try divert attention to “Hanafi Madhab” etc

You are arguing about an identity tag from “1866” and not from the time of Sahaba (RA), somehow make yourself come to this painful realisation! The Salafees are ascribing themselves to “Salaf” while you are ascribing yourself to “1866”…Calling oneself Salafi is equally wrong using the same arguments which I have made but at least it GOES BACK TO SALAF, not 1866 (India)!

Azhari or Nadwi vs Deobandi

Those who study at Jamiatul Al-Azhar are called “Azhari” and those who graduate from Nadwa are called “Nadwees” but they do not identify themselves as a sect or ideology, simply their alma mater. Laymen who follow these scholars do not call themselves as “Azhari” or “Nadwi”

V-E-R-S-U-S

  1. “Deobandi” is being identified as a sect/cult/ideology against being a “Barelwee”…Right or wrong is a different topic
  2. Laymen are calling themselves as “Deobandi” when they have never attended any Darul-uloom thus it is a sect/cult/ideology

These two points are which has the stench of sectarianism which Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) is referring to.

All those calling themselves “Deobandi”, know every well that they call themselves Deobandees as opposed to “Barelwees” or “Salafees” etc

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 13:26
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Use Hikmat , dont/Never use SECT names.
That will split us further.

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 13:44
@Muadh Khan:

You've taken several topics in one post:

1: Ulamae e deoband didnot choose this title themselves, it was barelvi sect which gave them different titles... Deobandi, wahabi, gustakh e rasool etc.

2: What Mufti Shafi Rh etc have advised ulama e deoband I agree to it but what I'm saying is related to common people, whether or not they can adhere to ulamae deoband for following hanafi madhab as barelvis are also hanafi...?

3: Sahaba ikram ra were ''Muslims'', they weren't Sunni or hanafi, maliki, shafi'i, hambali etc (hope all these groups are sects in your opinion..?)

they didnot have intra related disputes which could result in formation of 'sects' but later on this ummah began to divide into groups, e.g. Sunni Muslim or Shia Muslim

4: If you think adhering to any group is wrong then tabqat hanafia/shafia/malkia/hanabla should be considered as ''sects'' as well.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 13:46
10
Muadh_Khan wrote:
There is no such thing as Deobandi

Muadh_Khan's blog post:What is a Deobandi?

Muadh_Khan's thread: Documentary on Deobandees
Muadh_Khan once upon a time wrote:
Deobandees are nothing but followers of Normative Islam, not a sect or a cult

Bhai you only argue for the sake of arguing. Sorry but you are being disingenuous and there is no point discussing with you.

السلام علیکم
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 13:54
Arfatzafar wrote:
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The Sahaba were Muslims and they were from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah!

A verse of Surah al-Nisaa states: "Whomsoever opposes the Rasool after guidance has become manifest (Sunnah), and follows a way other than way of the believers (Jama'ah), then we will turn him towards al the deviant ways he wishes to turn but the result will be Jahannam. Such a bad abode."
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 14:04
abu mohammed wrote:
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Bro, you took me wrong. Sahaba ikram ra didnot call themselves as ahlesunnah wa al jamah. It's imam tahawi rh who used this term in his 'Aqidah Tahawiyya'.

And it's based on ''Ma ana alaihi wa as'habi''
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2019 15:02
bint e aisha wrote:
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Sister, I'm not defending Muadh (for the record). He's more than capable of doing that himself.

But those posts were from 2014 (Blog) and 2016 (forum). The UK post didn't look like it got anywhere and as you can see, other users had the same concerns back then too.

That can be considered in the past, just like how Mufti Rafi Usmani "used" to "label" himself a "Deobandi" but now he no longer doesn't.

Do you see where I'm coming from.
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