Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 
Top Members

Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

Jump to page:

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
abu mohammed
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-10,161
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#196 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 10:17

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

 

bint e aisha wrote:

Let me explain it how I see it. A Deobandi is a person who makes taqleed of one of the four madhhabs of Sunnis and considers followers of all four madhhabs on haqq and he follows Ulama-e-Deoband in aqeeda who were mostly Matureedis or Ash'ari

Do you believe this to be Aqeedah of Asharees and Maturidees and Deobandees? FEEL free to check any Deobandi book before answering?

askimam.org/public/question_detail/17354

In brief, it is incorrect to say that Allah Ta’ala is literally “everywhere” and “on his throne”. “Everywhere” is an area restricted within six dimensions. “Throne” is a restricted entity. Allah Ta’ala is the creator of Makaan (place) and the creator of Makaan (place) cannot be contained within his creation, ie, place. Books stating that Allah Ta’ala is everywhere intend thereby the absolute knowledge of Allah Ta’ala. (Fatawa Al-Mahmudiyya, vol 1, pg 244, Faruqiyya)

FEEL free to check Salafees who have the opposite Aqeedah in this matter i.e. Allah Ta'ala is UPWARDS and ON the throne!


bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

You are changing tactics again!

I have asked you what is a “Deobandi” and a reference and you have been unable to provide anything. Finally, you have come up with a definition it does not matter whether you are interested in it or not.

The question (being asked for the umpteenth time) would a person cease to be a “Deobandi” in your opinion if he (or she) violates the definition put up by yourself.

And for the umpteenth time, you have the option to merely say:

I am making Taqleed of the Ulama by calling myself a “Deobandi” and I actually do not understand the term in depth and its implications to debate and argue.

But you are not saying this! You are claim to be an authority on the topic so my question to you is:

Would a person cease to be a “Deobandi” in your opinion if he (or she) violates the definition put up by you?

sipraomer wrote:
View original post

 It is good to read and understand before posting something.

If you have understood it, please tell us:

  1. What is a “Deobandi”?
  2. What will make a person a “Deobandi”?
  3. How will a person cease to be a “Deobandi”?

Because you are prone to violent outbursts and emotional breakdown, I am not saying that a person will become a Kaafir or get out of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaah, we are discussing “Deobandi”!

So again from the article:

  1. What is a “Deobandi”?
  2. What will make a person a “Deobandi”?
  3. How will a person cease to be a “Deobandi”?
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,329
Sister
1,702
bint e aisha's avatar
#197 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 10:31
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

Quote:
The question (being asked for the umpteenth time) would a person cease to be a “Deobandi” in your opinion if he (or she) violates the definition put up by yourself.

For the umpteenth time I'm answering: Yes

I don't beat around the bush like you.

Quote:
And for the umpteenth time, you have the option to merely say:

I am making Taqleed of the Ulama by calling myself a “Deobandi” and I actually do not understand the term in depth and its implications to debate and argue.

I say: I am making Taqleed of the Ulama by calling myself a “Deobandi” and I actually do not understand the term in depth and its implications to debate and argue.


If you've done with this back and forth, would you care to answer my questions?
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-10,161
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#198 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 10:36

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

But you are arguing!

  1. You are imposing a definition and then erasing anyone who does not fit your definition out of being a “Deobandi”
  2. If you do not wish to argue you can say “I call myself a Deobandi in Taqleed” but I actually do not know the definition and what makes someone a “Deobandi” or a “Non-Deobandi”

1 is reasonable, 2 is a debate.

You are trying to debate! Do you wish to debate? In that case you will be questioned...

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,329
Sister
1,702
bint e aisha's avatar
#199 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 10:38
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

“I call myself a Deobandi in Taqleed” but I actually do not know the definition and what makes someone a “Deobandi” or a “Non-Deobandi”

Ok?
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-10,161
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#200 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 10:41

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

Then why are you debating about something in which you lack in depth knowledge? Make Taqleed and move as Allah Ta’ala has commanded you.

You have no right to ask anything of me because how would you know whether what I am saying is right or wrong?

It’s like asking a Mas’ala in the Hanbali Madhab, how would you know I am telling you the truth or not?

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,329
Sister
1,702
bint e aisha's avatar
#201 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 10:48
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

Allahu akbar! Bhai you were asking me these questions and you asked me for a definition which I had to write myself for your perusal.
Quote:
You have no right to ask anything of me because how would you know whether what I am saying is right or wrong?

It’s like asking a Mas’ala in the Hanbali Madhab, how would you know I am telling you the truth or not?

How clever! I do have a right to ask you these questions because you are instructing us not to use this label and calling it sectarianism. If you don't have an answer simply admit and move on.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-10,161
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#202 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:04

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

For the umpteenth time! I am not, Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) is!!!

You do not have to understand something to make Taqleed of Ulama. Everybody you pray Salah you do not know the in-depth analysis of how each Mas’ala is derived and yet you pray so that is fine and (needed).

In your case you are saying:

1.    I do not understand it
2.    YET, I want to question and debate you

It is a STUPID position to be in.

How can you question someone without having an understanding about something? You are just arguing for the sake of your Nafs and just making stuff up as you go along because you are clearly saying, “I do not understand it”.

Ajeeb…

You can change the question and ask, “I do not understand this issue in depth, and can you help me understand it?” OR you can say, “I would like to understand your point of view, although I disagree with it because other Ulama use this term” and it is amicable situation. Which I am not interested it, by the way…I don’t care if your call yourself “Deobandi” or any other “Bandi” for that matter.

You have no right to question me about a topic which “You do not understand?”

Your whole attitude stinks of arrogance…

1.    I do not understand it
2.    YET, I want to question and debate you
3.    I want to prove you wrong although I do not know the subject and I could be wrong and you could be right BUT I still want to question you

What arrogance!

In which other field do you go around questioning people and also admit, “I do not understand the topic but I will debate with you anyways!”

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF MY ANSWER IS RIGHT OR WRONG? THAT IS MY POINT!!!


report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
2,329
Sister
1,702
bint e aisha's avatar
#203 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:09
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

I back down. Wassalam
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
23,228
Brother
9,814
abu mohammed's avatar
#204 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:21
Muadh wrote:

1. What is the status of someone WHO does not make Taqleed of one of the four Madhabs?
2. What is the status of someone WHO does not adhere to the Aqeedah of Matureedis or Ash'arees?
3. Is this defintion of your apply to everyone AFTER 1866 or before as well?
Are they "Deobandi" according to your definition?

Response
bint e aisha wrote:
Once again writing that is my own definition.
1. He is not a Deobandi but still a Muslim
2. He is not a Deobandi but still a Muslim
3. After 1866. Before that they were called Muslims.


Rewritten to clarify further
1. What is the status of someone who makes Taqleed of a Madhab?
2. What is the status of someone adheres to the Aqeedah of Matureedis, Ash'arees or Imam Tahawih?
3. Does this defintion of yours apply to everyone after 1866 or before as well?

I believe your answers will still be the same you've already provided.

So, on a side track - Is the term Deobandi an innovation that was introduced after 1866?

You may answer, "No, it is not an innovation because it has notihng to do with Islam, it is a label to define what type of Geographical Hanafi I am"

So should we not just stick by the name Allah gave us and leave other labels on the side.

But since the sister has said, "She backs down"

Alhumdulillah it is Monday - So lets call it a day for now (unless there can be positive clarification with very short responses and not cut and paste essays :) )

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
-10,161
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#205 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:21

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

You do not need to engage in silly antics, you need to grasp what is being said:

You ask me to say, “What is your name in Tamil?” Here is the scenario:

  1. You do not know Tamil
  2. But you wish to debate with me about the translation being accurate.

How is that possible?

You can ask me, “I do not know Tamil so I wish to learn how to say it”.

OR you can say, “I know English and Urdu so I will stick to it”

OR you can say, “I know ABC who knows Tamil and he or she says it this way so I will stick to it…Although I do not know whether what you are saying is right or wrong but I will stick to someone I know”

How can you debate with me in Tamil while simultaneously admitting that you do not know Tamil?


report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Arfatzafar's avatar
Offline
India
1,269
Brother
1,525
Arfatzafar's avatar
#206 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:30
@Muadh Khan:

Quote:
That is exactly why you remain STUPID!


Same to you bro

Quote:
''You are a Jaahil!''


Short tempered is always a jahil. Learn to control your anger

Now, I repeat my question 3rd time. Hope, now, you will not reply like an insane person

''You said that you are a Muslim because it's written in Quran.

So if any Muslim says that he is also a Muslim but to follow Islamic teachings he trust ulamae deoband. And for this reason he calls himself a deobandi.

Then

will he become kafir or mushrik or fasiq or fajir or bidati...?
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Asaaghir's avatar
Spinistan Throne
620
Brother
384
Asaaghir's avatar
#207 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:41
Arfatzafar wrote:
View original post

Bro, we know he doesn't become a kafir and that's not the point of discussion anyway.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Arfatzafar's avatar
Offline
India
1,269
Brother
1,525
Arfatzafar's avatar
#208 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:53
Asaaghir wrote:
View original post

Thanks for your reply, bro



report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Asaaghir's avatar
Spinistan Throne
620
Brother
384
Asaaghir's avatar
#209 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:57
Arfatzafar wrote:
View original post

So in plain English, what is Mufti Rafi Usmani saying in that very short clip?
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Arfatzafar's avatar
Offline
India
1,269
Brother
1,525
Arfatzafar's avatar
#210 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2019 11:58
@Muadh_Khan

Quote:
“Salafi” is an identity never used in this Ummah.

“Muhammadi” is an identity never used in this Ummah but given by the British.


Then why do you show double standard....?

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top

Jump to page: