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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#166 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:33

Rajab wrote:
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  1. Call youself "Muslim".
  2. Allah will honour you and grant you Jannah.
Now hit dislike...
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#167 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:39
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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And when someone asks you a question which school of thought you follow?
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#168 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:43
@Muadh Khan:

I've no time to listen so many parts. I've already seen OP

You didnot answer my Question.

Why do you not have this problem with barelvis or salafis...?
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#169 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:47

bint e aisha wrote:
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When someone asks you a question, you answer it plainly as Allah has commanded but it is not my identity. My identity which Allah Ta'ala has assigned me is "Muslim"

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[3:19] Truly, the (recognized) religion in the sight of Allah is Islam . Those who have been given the Book did not differ (among themselves) until after the knowledge had come to them, (and all this) due to envy against each other. Whoever denies the verses of Allah, then, Allah is swift at reckoning.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[22:78] Struggle for (seeking the pleasure of) Allah, a struggle that is owed to Him. He has chosen you and did not impose any hardship on you in the religion, the faith of your father Ibrahim. He (Allah) named you as Muslims earlier and also in this (Qur‗an), so that the Messenger becomes a witness to you, and you become witnesses to (other) people. So establish Salah, pay Zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your patron. So, how excellent He is as a patron, and how excellent as a supporter!

Question: Which Madhab do you follow?

Muadh Khan: I follow the Hanafi Madhab

But do you introduce yourself as

  1. bint e aisha
  2. Muslim
  3. Sunni
  4. Asha'ri/Maturidi
  5. Tahawi
  6. Hafs Qari
  7. Hanafi
  8. Deobandi
  9. Chishti
  10. Thanwi
  11. Akhtari

?

I know that you are intelligence enough to grasp what is being said in plain language but your Nafs simply cannot let this go, so carry on.

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#170 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:52
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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When someone asks me, I say I'm Sunni Muslim. When they ask further I say I'm Hanafi, but if they insist and want to know even further only then I say I'm Deobandi.

And as I said before I can tolerate everyone and even consider Barelvi, Salafi, ahle Hadith from amongst the Ahlussunnah wal jama'ah. So kindly tell me how is it sectarianism?
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#171 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:54

Arfatzafar wrote:
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That is exactly why you remain STUPID! Because you never bother reading or listening to anything in detail. It is NOT FROM ME but from Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) so LISTEN before opening your BIG MOUTH! Perchance some knowledge may get inside your head if you spend some time trying…

From the front page on the same day!

www.muftisays.com/forums/27-sharing-portal/12376-muftieaz...

Barelwee vs Deobandi divide is not from Salaf it is from 1866…NONE OF THOSE who established Deoband actually officially called themselves Deobandees.

“Salafi” is an identity never used in this Ummah.

“Muhammadi” is an identity never used in this Ummah but given by the British.

The British also coined the terms “Muhammadan, Mosalman and Wahabi”

All of the above are deliberately and tactfully invented by enemies of Islam because they want to splinter and splinter and splinter….

Next time, BEFORE ASKING bother to read! Your second question in less then an hour which is already answered

si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

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#172 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:56
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Are you ONLY Muslim on this planet...?
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#173 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 19:59

Arfatzafar wrote:
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Ask Allah Ta'ala because this is what Allah Ta'ala told me in the Qur'aan:

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[3:19] Truly, the (recognized) religion in the sight of Allah is Islam . Those who have been given the Book did not differ (among themselves) until after the knowledge had come to them, (and all this) due to envy against each other. Whoever denies the verses of Allah, then, Allah is swift at reckoning.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[22:78] Struggle for (seeking the pleasure of) Allah, a struggle that is owed to Him. He has chosen you and did not impose any hardship on you in the religion, the faith of your father Ibrahim. He (Allah) named you as Muslims earlier and also in this (Qur‗an), so that the Messenger becomes a witness to you, and you become witnesses to (other) people. So establish Salah, pay Zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your patron. So, how excellent He is as a patron, and how excellent as a supporter!

  1. Islam is my RELIGION
  2. I am MUSLIM

si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses


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#174 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:06
bint e aisha wrote:
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Ok after you attempt this question, I have one further question. I was discussing it with someone and she made this point.

How do we lay people differentiate which Ulama we consult and adhere to since there are different groups of people in the world with different khiyaalaat in aqeedah. Saying deobandi makes it clear which Ulama we consult and follow in every day life as Muslims.
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#175 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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If somebody says he is a Muslim and to follow Islamic teachings he trust ulama e deoband and so he calls himself a deobandi. Then he is still a Muslim or he has become a kafir or mushrik or fasiq or fajir or bidati...?

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#176 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:18

bint e aisha wrote:
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I have checked and I have answered this multiple times to you, would you like to admit ignorance that you did not understand it and start again?

If you are sincere, we can have this discussion all day all night, if you are irked and emotional then have Mercy on my time and save me the hassle because I have already answered it.

I have understood your point of view (loud and clear) that in your country it is associated with an “identity”…I also know your position that you don’t consider anyone a disbeliever or outside of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaat.

The problem in simple language which Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) is explaining in plain and simple English that it is NOT AN IDENTITY…Even if is used in your circles.

People call Shaykh Ali Hajwairi (RA) “Data Ganj-Baksh” and commonly but he is NOT “Data”…Allah Ta’ala is my “Data”; does not matter that his title is popular and unambiguously understood

Just an illustration.

There is NO SUCH THING as “Deoband” or “Deobandi” for you as a laymen…Doesn’t matter how many Nasheeds you listen to or how many flags you wrap yourself around. It is NOT an identity, I am not saying it, Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) is saying it.

If according to now defunct discussion about “Ravian” is brought up again, it still DOES NOT apply to you because DU Deobandi is not your Alma matter.

So I get that your Nafs is hurting but cross questioning again and again and asking “this or that” DOES NOT absolve you from answering.

In the eyes of Shariah, you are making a CLAIM that you are “DEOBANDI”, it is your responsibility to justify it and NOT MINE to answer your roundabout questions again and again, just stated differently because your brain cannot grasp it.

The issue is raised by someone who is Native of Deoband and is a “Deobandi” and also happens to be the Grand-Mufti so if some XYZ (Shaykh or Maulana) says it; it does not make it right.

Your (Islamic) defence: Allah Ta’ala has obligated you to make Taqleed so you can say that that I am making Taqleed of Maulana Ilyas Ghumaan (HA) and calling myself “Deobandi” fair enough but then you are a Muqallid and you obviously are not knowledgeable or articulate enough to give any reasons. Importantly, you are a Muqallid so you SHOULD NOT be giving reasons but if you are sincere and want to continue, please continue I don’t mind having this discussion all day and all night for the sake of sincerity.

So you can say:

  • I do not make Taqleed of opinion of Maulana Qasim Nanotwi (RA)
  • I do not make Taqleed of Maulana Mahmoodul-Hasan (RA)
  • I do not make Taqleed of Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani (RA)
  • I do not make Taqleed of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)
  • I do not make Taqleed of Mufti Shafi Usmani (RA)
  • I do not make Taqleed of Mufti Rasfi Usmani (HA)
  • I make Taqleed of Maulana Ilyas Ghumman (HA)

I cannot argue with that from an Islamic point of view from Taqleed perspective as it is your choice...

Arfatzafar wrote:
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Has Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) said that anywhere?

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#177 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:29
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Bhai I've understood all these points but you have again dodged my question and tried to become a politician. Let me make a few things clear. You have not hurt my nafs or ego in anyway. I'm only trying to understand. You have made these points again and again but if you have answered my question somewhere in between and I have not understood then I apologise. But please answer it in a simple, straightforward and precise manner (if possible).

And please try to answer my questions in a calm manner otherwise ignore.
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#178 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:38

bint e aisha wrote:
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How do we lay people differentiate which Ulama we consult and adhere to since there are different groups of people in the world with different khiyaalaat in aqeedah. Saying deobandi makes it clear which Ulama we consult and follow in every day life as Muslims.

Part 1:

Answered it so many times and answered it in your second last question but let’s start again.

We are having an Academic discussion…

Deoband is NOT a sect, cult, group, identity of any kind so you cannot say that you are a “Deobandi” because no unique or separate definition exists.

Deoband is a town in India where many Ulama happened to graduate from.

You CANOT have an identity which is not unique.

There are Islamic Institutions which offer classes of Fiqh such as “Tahara according to Hanafi Madhab” and “Tahara according to Shaf’ae Madhab” so at this time you can take a class according to your Madhab because these are differentiating factors.

If you are in university and someone asks you which Madhab do you follow you say, “I am Hanafi” because it is an established differentiating factor. There is reason for you to differentiate and reason for you to distinguish yourself.

Deoband is NOT.

Read Part 1 and disagree with facts. If you disagree THEN tell me the distinguishing factors of “Deobandi” and quote me sources of it…Take “Hanafi” as an example (although remember that I wrote about that as well but for the sake of argument let's go with that...)

Let’s exhaust part 1 and then we move to later parts...

P.S: Let us discuss in sequence.

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#179 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:52
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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After saying Hanafi there is a reason for me to distinguish myself again from those people who

• make sajdah on graves
• ask things from auliya-ullah
• believes Rasulullah صلى الله عليه وسلم knew ilm-ul-ghaib
• believes Rasulullah صلى الله عليه وسلم was not a human, but only noor
• believes Rasulullah صلى الله عليه وسلم visit them in their milad parties
• celebrate birthday of Rasulullah صلى الله عليه وسلم in weird ways

etc etc.

Please don't ask me for references; it will take a lot of time.

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#180 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2019 20:56

bint e aisha wrote:
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Part 1 Continued:

I get what you are explaining but you have skipped the question…

What is “Deobandi”? Hypothetically, let’s agree that being “Hanafi” is an identity so you are “Hanafi”.

What is “Deobandi”? Where are the principles of being “Deobandi” written? Where is it written that a person has have such and such Aqeedah to be “Deobandi”? Remember that you are making a “claim” so it is up to you to clearly define the matter before any other discussion.

Example: “I am Hanafi”

Explanation: “I follow the Madhab of Imam Abu Haneefa (RA)”

Understood and clear! So what is “Deobandi”?

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