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Who is Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza

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#241 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 08:26
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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That is useful ya akhi.

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#242 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 10:44
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Is also very sympathetic towards Qadiyanis. Offers excuses for them. Not only that but provides them arguments to use against sunnis in his videos.

Can you please post those videos?
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#243 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 11:03
bint e aisha wrote:
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We shouldn't be surprised.

These people are pro Ta'weel. They make their own interpretation, so if they find anyone else doing it, they are not wrong :(

Same thing happened to the Ahle Hadith Imam who did Ta'weel and said he believed that man could've come from monkeys and then evolution took place.


But, yes, if those videos could be found, it makes his defamation worse and more easier to take people away from his ideologies.
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#244 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 14:49
bint e aisha wrote:
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youtu.be/Jto-pwDTzX4

Also in the above video around the 8 minute mark he slandered a former Qadiyani. Who is now a muslim and does Dawah to the Qadiyanis. This was used by the Qadiyanis to then attack that brother across social media platforms.

Ali Mirza was repremanded by his associates and even his own father for this.

So he back-tracked then invited the Brother known as Shamsuddin to his studio.

youtu.be/8CdtTum6cvY

Background summary of this is that everytime the question of Qadiyanis
has come up. He responds that the elders of Deobandis and Barelvis did the same as Mirza Qadiyani.

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Barelvi elder called Chisti. Told their mureeds to recite Kalimah in their names. The incident involving Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanvi was that a Mureed came to him saying he had a dream where he was reciting Kalimah in Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanvis name instead of Muhammad Rasool Allah. The guy worried and anxious he had become Kafir visited the shaykh. The Shaykh did not repremand him and told him not to worry he was not a Kafir. It was just a dream and wasawis. Similarly incidence involving the Barelvi Scholar called Chisti.

Ali Mirza has been repeatinng these isolated incidences over and over again in his videos implying the elders of these groups encouraged or enforced others to recite Kalimah in their names.

The former Qadiyani Brother visited him and told him that his words and video misreprentations were being used by
Qadiyanis to spread propaganda. And were an obstacle to doing dawah to them and asked him why he was not speaking out against them. Instead he made a video slandering the guy that he was doing dawah for funds.


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#245 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 14:55
In the following short video he claims the Qadiyanis have been harshly treated beyond what is justified. And the Qadiyanis in his opinion are sincere people and simply a misguided sect of Sunni Islam. The Barelvis and Deobandis are hypocrites attacking them whilst remaining silent on their own elders.

youtu.be/exbwl1havaU
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#246 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 15:13
I almost took the bait and responded but then deleted my response...I heard both clips and thoroughly

  1. I testify that Nabi Muhammad (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is the LAST and FINAL messenger and there is no scope for any sort of Prophethood after (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).
  2. I testify that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani is a LIAR and A KAAFIR and anyone who believes him as such in any capacity is a KAAFIR!


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#247 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 15:36
Matters such as the one of brother shamsuddin and an ex qadiyani revert sister show us that a large number of qadiyanis are simply following what their leaders feed them. Proactive dawah is needed to show them what true Islam is. Mufti Tariq Masood HA interviewed some ulama of Punjab who did dawah work on qadiyanis and brought thousands back to the fold of Islam. The average qadiyani feels victimized simply for being born into a qadiyani household. It takes a lot of patience to do dawah towards someone who doesn't know any better. This is likely what Engineer Mirza is trying to convey albeit in a clumsy manner.
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#248 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 16:14
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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انا لله وانا اليه راجعون

Mirza is a Shaytan who is creating confusion and misguiding people.

But you have misquoted him here, respected brother.
Quote:
And the Qadiyanis in his opinion are sincere people and simply a misguided sect of Sunni Islam.

He has called them kaafir but at the same time he is offering excuses and defending them saying shirk is a bigger sin than believing in any false prophet. I had no idea he misguides people like this!

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#249 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 16:33
abuzayd2k wrote:
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The same can be said for any kaafir.

Thing is, a line has to be drawn. Using wisdom for dawah is obviously the need of that noble effort, but sympathizing with the ways of those who are transgressing the boundaries defined by Allah and His Rasool (saw) sends a completely different message. The message should be of tolerance not acceptance of their aqaid. What is happening even in this world these days is the kuffar decry about how intolerant Muslims can be. What they really mean by that is how un-accepting of their views we are. Tolerance involves being able to live alongside them despite their beliefs without hurting their interests. Acceptance involves acknowledging that yes, our own beliefs are just one way of salvation, their beliefs too could lead to salvation.
In our admirable haste to invite the kuffar to Islam, we should not and cannot present the wrong message to them. That defeats the purpose of dawah.
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#250 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 16:48
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Whilst the sentiments you have expressed are correct. Infact I heard Mufti Muhammad Saeed Khan of Islamabad . State the same in one of his lectures some years ago. That the historic strategy of dealing with Qadiyanis has been counter productive. More focus should have been placed on doing Dawah to them and to confined the fitnah to the subcontinent. But instead what happened is that not only was Dawah to them impeded. But they have sought asylum across the world and acquired funding from western governments and established centres in over 80 countries and are misguiding muslims globally.

As far as your assesment of Ali Mirza I dont think he is trying to convey that. The contradiction is reflected in the harshness of his argument and behaviour towards other muslims.

I only bothered with listening to his videos in the last couple of days after myself becoming embroiled in a lengthy discussion with a Qadiyani. A search on youtube led me to Brother Shamsuddin and then to the channel of Engineer Ali Mirza.

I spent several hours of going through the clips of Ali Mirza. Essentially what I can tell is the followers he has acquired are from the academic and educated classes.

He deliberately trys to incite a reaction from orthodox muslims. When those groups or their Scholars respond in angry and emotional manner he says " See what did I tell you these Molvis are emotional Jahils and backward, incapable of constructing a rational or academic argument."

As far as the Qadiyanis goes it beggars belief that a guy who uses harsh and abrasive tones towards all and sundry. And is willing to harshly criticise the Sahaba such as Sayyidina Muawaiyyah (RA), who is willing to question and bluntly criticise the classic Scholars from Allama Jallaludeen As Sayooti رحمة الله عليه to Imam Al Ghazali رحمة الله عليه. But is unwilling to use the same tone against Qadiyanis.

From my perspective there is no appetite amongst his audience in the educated classes to target Qadiyanis infact their is an entire movement amongst them including the celebrities like actor Hamza Ali Abbas and people in media that the Qadiyanis are harshly persecuted .

So he is presenting himself as a rationalist and intellectual willing to attack the uneducated Mullah class and as an intellectual willing to criticise the luminaries of the past like any honest academic. He is presenting it as a sign of his integrity the Mullahs attack Qadiyanis because there is alot of money in the Khatme Nabuwwat Movement. I am not interested in acquiring money from the deen and I am willing to take the unpopular position of pointing out the hypocrisy of these Mullahs and their Akabireen.

He has mastered the art of turning any criticism and using it in his favour.

Like following video were he resoponded to the accusation he was a Qadiyani agent

youtu.be/PcDIUpZ1FS4

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#251 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 17:00
bint e aisha wrote:
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Based on the video below I dont think I misquoted him.

youtu.be/exbwl1havaU

I have read the comments from his viewers a common refrain from them has been as to why he is releasing. Non stop Videos attacking the Orthodox muslims and their akabireen. And his failure to issue videos against Qadiyanis. So he has been forced into making videos against Qadiyanis. In first video I posted were he slandered the former Qadiani preacher he seemed to double down on his position. In the above video he clearly states that the Pakistani Constitution has declared them Kafir and it is a sensitive issue but has stated he views them to be better then Christians and Yahood and they are a misguided sect that emerged from Sunni-Islam.

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#252 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 17:37
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Sorry but who is Ali Murtaza?
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#253 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 17:42
What this guy has done is correctly guessed the way to win the hearts of the Pakistani people. Your average Pakistani has so much buguz in their heart for the ulema of deen that anyone who comes along and criticizes those ulema especially in harsh tones with the usage of indecent language, the population of the subcontinent starts believing that guy is a serious buzurg and has seen a side of deen that no aalim ever has. I am sure if any of the Muftisays members were to start making YouTube videos in a similar fashion they'd acquire followers within no time.

There's a clip of a karguzari of Maulana Umar Palanpuri that gives a good idea of how to win over the population in the subcontinent. Long story short someone is narrating of a time when Maulana Umar Palanapuri had to do dawah amongst the Barelvis at a mazaar of theirs and he managed to get them to the Tableeghi markaz by presenting himself as some great buzurg. Or at least that's what the people perceived when they saw him insulting people and using harsh tones that people normally associate with some buzurg. Hilarious, but quite enlightening.
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#254 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 17:47
fod1083 wrote:
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Yes, you can look at the issue in many different ways but I am glad that you are at least thinking of the "core issue" as to why people are listening to him (or those before him).

I do not believe that it is down to just "Buguz", it is the lack of professional content, setting the example and leading by example and talking to the laymen in a tone and manner which they understand...

I speak to Ulama all the time and the issue is deeper and needs evaluation otherwise, Maulana Maududi (RA) and XYZ will just keep coming...

Why is Maulana Tariq Masood (HA) so popular in laymen? and Thousands of other Ulama who are Academically superior not so popular?
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#255 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 17:50
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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This should end the thread. This is all Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza is doing...

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
He has mastered the art of turning any criticism and using it in his favour.


Case closed, our Deobandi (Ulama and laymen) just cannot grasp the need for a strategy on how to counter this.

Take a look at how "Deobandees" reacted when he was arrested and I predicted that this will backfire and he will become even more popular in the public.
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