Muslims in the West: Rude, Nasty, Obnoxious, Bad-mannered

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 21:34

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Very good point. Im trying to rack my brain to disprove your theory, but so far I can't. Why do you think that is?

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 22:30

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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lol most people who are vile,rude,obnoxious usually hide behind the term ' i am direct'. its no different to the dogs ( couldnt resist) who spew islamaphobic BS and say im not racists im just telling it how it is.

btw im not address u personally so no need to get defensive but even if you are direct, why should that lead you to speak in a way that others consider rude? this this the akhlaq of rasoolullah (saw)

? from expereince everyone i met who says im not rude im just direct are in fact rude arrogant and thin skinned as they are first to cry when someone speaks to them in the same way,

i can give you 100 examples. if X is doing something wrong then being direct will be ' brother/sister etc this is wrong and this is the reason' were as those who pretend to be direct but are in fact jsut rude tend to say ' wtf are you doing? are u thick? were u get this from why doing this u idiot its not allowed' then turn around to their friends and say yh bro thats me im direct.

ive even seen fools act like that and then compare themselves to umar رضي الله عنه lol. yh umar رضي الله عنه was harsh but never rude or vulgar and he also put his cheek on floor when he was wrong but they seem to forget that part of his life.

now back to the topic at hand, it depends who you come across. muslims who grew up like thugs tend to still speak like thus and also especially in east lon its the language they use as its their normal every day way of showing their discontent for something. recent example is hamza yusuf who shamed himself with his praise for uae leaders but many on whatsapp will message look at that dog or sell out. people here are accustomed to it so dont batter an eye lid but i can understand why non english see it as rude. i guess its like old uncles who speak punjabi you should see some of the words they use in between sentences but for them its normal.

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 22:45

sipraomer wrote:

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May Allah bless you

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 22:58

mkdon101 wrote:

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Thugs from the West (or East London) doesn't mean everyone from there have the same attitude, manners, Akhlaq or are what Muadh had described.

I lived most of my life in Hackney (East London) and now my local Masjid is the same as yours (Still in East London).

What we see in a few people does not mean everyone is like that. Similarly, just because Islam teaches us to be the best of examples, doesn't mean that everyone will be the best of examples.

If we can't judge Islam by looking at Muslim's, then we can't judge Western Muslim's by looking at a handful of Western Muslim thugs!

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 23:10

abu mohammed wrote:

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i agree.i didnt say east lon muslims are like that but saying if you come across any who are its more to do with just the culture they were raised in. i mean even among friends during a friendly convo u here brothers say allow it man stop being gay. to us its not being being rude or offensive but if someone who isnt used to that kinda speech will be like guy just called u gay

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 05:31

I don't know why it happened that the thread is focused more on Muad khan rather than a general discussion....

Allah swt shows his unique skills of creation by making us different to each other in many ways,despite being all the progeny of syedena Adam علیہ السلام. We differ in colour,language,culture,habits and many more things across the globe.We also differ in our approach and attitudes,our ways of expression and our preferences.As long as we remain within the limits outlined by Allah swt and his Rasool pbuh,we are all equally right....

One of my friends faced the wrath of Muad khan here on this forum,apparently for no reason, he got many likes EXCEPT that Muad khan turned on him and my badly bruised friend left the forum.His first reaction was of intense anger and hatred for Muad,but he restrained himself....

Let us try to find good in our brothers.Allah swt has made people different. Let us accept each other as we are,once it is clear that the reason behind what we do is honest and sincere devotion to Allah and his Rasool pbuh.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 06:11

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Take bay't of whom Pir Muadh sahab? Lol

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 06:18

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Shaykh,

If someone is direct and straightforward, that is not an issue.
If someone points out a mistake and he is polite, respectful, that is also fine.

However, if someone uses the word "DOG" or "PIG" for ANYONE, with whom he disagrees, then that is indeed rude and bad mannered, and completely against the sunnah of all the Prophets.

Some examples: MBS the dog, Shaykh X the bootlicker of Trump, UAE Conference (dogs, pigs, zindeeq, murtad), Zardari the dog, Shaykh Z the dog, etc etc.

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 06:22

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Second thing: It is completely OK to "expose" someone, who is a hypocrite and is damaging the Ummah.

However, during the campaign of this "exposure", people get personal, and all of the "hidden" sins of that particular person (which are limited to him, and not the ummah) are being "shared" on all of the social media across the globe.

This creates Ujub and Kibr too (not looking at one's own faults, and looking down on others), besides being a major sin also.

The last issue is people do not pardon the sinner. That sinner has to be HANGED and taken to the task. There is no middle way. Allah will forgive him, but we have to expose him and HANG him in public. This is again, completely against the Sunnah.

Lesson: Tassawwuf is a must!

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 06:27

In my experience, people these days are too sensitive when it comes to their own selves. They get triggered by anything they perceive as hostile even if it is just a very slight indication. So if anyone is direct and straightforward in today's times, more often than not people tend to perceive that as hostility. Everyone is on edge these days, and patience is wearing thin. So it's not just the fault of some individuals who, it's almost everyone who needs to change in this sense. Learn to forgive and let go more. Then you won't even have the problem of rudeness and bad manners.

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 06:29

He is an old man now. Spare his shortcomings and apprecciate whatever good he has. In our daily life, are we always polite with our family? With those who are weaker than us? Be patient with him. He is an elderly citizen now. Old people have their limitation. Bear him with patience and understanding.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 07:23

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Red is viewed as an aggressive colour

When you use red for emphasis, know that you are leaving the level of emphasis to be determined by the other side. Risky at at best. Therefore, why not work on choosing the proper words that relay your intent and tone? The English language offers a plethora of words for you to choose from to make your point!

Red has a long history of being an aggressive color. For the ancient Romans, a red flag was a signal for battle. Because of its visibility stop signs, stoplights, brake lights, and fire equipment are all painted red. To “see red” is to be angry.

All caps - Association with Shouting

A 2014 article on netiquette (online etiquette) in New Republic titled "How Capital Letters Became Internet Code for Yelling",[11] which states that

According to Professor Paul Luna (department of typography and graphic communication at the University of Reading), all caps have been used "to convey grandeur, pomposity, or aesthetic seriousness for thousands of years", and for many years to express anger or shouting in print. Examples are cited such as pianist Philippa Schuyler's biography titled "Composition in Black and White" in the 1940s which used all-caps to "yell", and Robert Moses in the 1970s who used all caps to "convey rage" at a draft of a book.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 07:33

As far as Tassawuf is concerned, here are my two cents.

1. It depends upon the type of shaykh. His level of taqwa and knowledge about his field.

2. It depends upon the mureed. How much capacity and capability he has to learn and rectify his mistakes.

For example,
In a four month tabligh trip a person has the chance to change his entire life style and his attitude towards deen. He can learn many good things and leave many bad things. On the other hand another person could take little benefit from that trip. It all depends upon the quality of work any particular individual has done.

If you have followed the 12 usools laid down by buzurgs in letter and in spirit then you will become a high level momin (if not a wali) after four months of tabligh. The more you practice the better you become. However, if you have wasted your time in La'yani and "Awaaragardi" and mobile phone then don't blame tabligh for your own shortcomings. You get what you work for. Nothing is free. I swear by Allah! Anybody who will put his sincere effort in the work of tabligh while following the 12 usools will definitely take benefit from this blessed work.

Same is true with tassawuf, madrassah, jihad. It all comes to the capacity of that individual and level of sincerity and effort.

3. You can't compare people of the current age with previous generations. The level of piety and goodness was higher in previous times because the level of fitnah was less and institutions of islah were plenty and of high standard. Every previous generation will be better in akhlaq than the next generation. So don't compare the religiously motivated folks of these times with books. Because in books are recorded ideal examples of previous times. However, what you may try to find is a kind of nisbat. A resemblance of character in some manner or level of qurbani in some manner with previous generations. And also you will compare today's practicing Muslims with non practicing ones. Do you see a difference in attitude between the two. I can see a huge difference. In my observation, regular namazis are more kind hearted and ready to listen to naseeha as compared to non namazis. People linked with a genuine shaykh (generally speaking) are more tender hearted and well mannered as compared to those who lack suhbah of ulema and the pious.

Tassawuf does increase the quality of your ibadah, the level of inner peace and contentment. Your salahs become better and you become focused. This results positively in the practice of your entire deen.

Also, islah in these troubled times of fitnah is not easy. I was addicted to video games and movies and it took me many years of tabligh, masjid environment, dhikr etc to leave these addictions.

So don't compare a person with other pious examples who have had the benefit of better upbringing and good company for a very long time in madrassah/khanqah setting. If you want to compare people then compare them with their past selves. If a person is currently better than his past self then be rest assured that he/she is on the right track and Allah will not waste his/her efforts.

4. A balance has to be maintained between being direct and too much direct. You can correct a mistake with the right amount of pressure. If you put less pressure, the other person may not nudge but if you over pressurize someone, then he can become aggressive and defensive and could stop listening. However, with the right amount of pressure, he could have gotten the point and could have improved himself. I have observed it numerous times, you become too hostile or critical and the other person will leave you and instead of islah it will become a balah (disaster).

5. Dawah and education are not so easy that you blurt out the thing just like that and then think that to hell with the other person, whether he listens or not. My job was to just blurt out whatever, I thought was right. No! You have to understand the psyche of other person and deal with him/her accordingly. Yes! On the internet it is difficult.

6. Many times, the correct approach is not to address the wrong ideology of a person but to address the inner spiritual problem he has. Maybe, he had a fight with his wife or parents and is taking out anger somewhere else. Maybe, he has difficulty in his job and is unable to properly address his frustrations. Most of the times, it is more of a spiritual problem than an educational or ideological problem. You have to first remove the spiritual barrier which is stopping that person to grasp the haq. Once you solve it, he will automatically get corrected. I have noticed this thing and here I salute to tabligh buzurgs. This approach of telling the other person about what is right and wrong is fruitless. First bring that person to the environment of masjid so that his heart softens and gets prepared to absorb the truth and after that tell him the correct thing in a polite manner. As the saying goes "strike while the iron is hot". Heat the iron first and then strike. Don't strike on the cold iron, otherwise you can't mold it. It will only hurt and tire your hands.

7. We (Muslims) need to learn human psychology to become better educators and mentors. A good teacher is not only he who knows the expertise of his field alone but he also knows the psychology of his students and how to deal with them and how to present what he knows in the best of manners. I often see it in teachers, that they may be competent in their fields but most of time many teachers fail to present what they know in a manner which their students could digest and absorb. Teaching and educating is not an easy task. It takes extra amount of effort, wisdom, caring and sincerity. Be a mother to the ummah not a hitler for this ummah.

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 09:09

bint e aisha wrote:

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Wao,great information...
Honestly,I did not know about 'All caps' part of it..
Can you please write some more on the subject ?

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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2018 09:24

"ALIF wrote:

One of my friends faced the wrath of Muad khan here on this forum,apparently for no reason,but as my friend told me after a honest analysis of himself,my friend was wrong and Muad was right.He wrote a reasonably good post,quoting Ayat and ahadeeth in it (all without translation), may be some poetry (again without translation), he got many likes EXCEPT that Muad khan turned on him and my badly bruised friend left the forum.His first reaction was of intense anger and hatred for Muad,but Allah swt guided him and instead of nourishing hatred in his mind,he started praying for Muad khan after each salat.Allah swt opened his heart to understand his own wrong doing of writing for self projection and ego serving.Without Muad being aware of it,he acted like a Shaikh for him for his Eslah :)

I don't wish to name names, but was this particular incident regarding a joke on Twins? if so, then yes, I sided with Muadh on that too. A joke should not have been made on the Deen. Also, this member, if the same or another should return, we can learn from them too - who knows who's words will have an effect on anothers soul.

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Muslims in the West: Rude, Nasty, Obnoxious, Bad-mannered

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