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From Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (RA) to Maulana Saad (HA): THE PROBLEM!

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 11:17
Mirza Ghlam Ahmed Qadiyani (1889-1900) is important for this discssion, look it up people.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 13:11
First,the circumstances :His period was known for the religious polemics. The educated people of the time had a relish for religious debates and controversies.Christian missionaries on one hand and 'Ariya samaj' on the other hand were busy challenging Islam and propagating against it.One of them had the power of government behind it,the other had the support of majority of Hindu population.

In such an atmosphere,anyone who rose to defend Islam,naturally caught attention of Muslims.Any nation in its time of degradation becomes desperate for a "Messiah like figure",who can restore their self respect and reassure them about their faith.Mirza smelled the opportunity and filled the gape by announcing to write 'Barahin e Ahmadiya'....

Please note,it was not the book in itself which caught the attention of so many,it was the "challenge" thrown along with it which brought Mirza from obscurity to limelight.Mirza announced a huge sum of money for anyone who could give an answer to his book. As it turned out later,the book carried no real academic value,but Mirza became a well known name in the academic circles nevertheless....

Next was the nature of his gradual transformation from a Preacher to Mujaddad to his claim of being the promised Messiah to the position of prophethood. His book took 23 years to complete,and there were glaring hints in those five volumes of the book about his real motives,still he was either taken lightly or ignored by those who were responsible for the protection of the IMAN of this Ummah. They kept on doing more important things like defending Hanafi Fiqh as compared to other schools of thought.....

In his book 'Barahine Ahmadiya' we find some indications of the driving forces of the Mirza's personality,like his habit of 'boastfulness' and 'self-glorification' and his confidence in 'heavenly signs' as a means of establishing his claims and his preference for using 'Elham' as a daleel. The central theme of the book is that "Divine inspiration had not ceased and should not cease,that such 'inspiration' in itself is the most powerful proof of the validity of any claim and the truth"

The British may or may not have 'created' this fitna but they certainly provided it an umbrella under which this fitna could flourish.The announcements made by Mirza that his followers should show allegiance to the crown,citing the services he and his family had provided to the 'English sarkar' and his outbursts against jehad may have made him the favourite of The British rulers. In any case,he was useful for them,because :

1. He was creating rift between Muslims,forcing them to get involved in useless discussions about issues long settled,(like the finality of prophethood and the details about Syedena Isa علیہ السلام). Such discussion certainly served to turn the attention of people away from real political,social and economic issues of vital importance

2. The British had bad experience about a true Mujaddad,syed Ahmad Shaheed and his followers,in not too distant past.They loved the idea to have a fake Mujaddad amongst people who was against jehad,the false prophet was an even better option...

In summary :

The following factors coming together served to facilitate the rise of a 'false prophet' amongst Muslims :

1. Feeling of oppression,worthlessness and desperation amongst Muslims coupled with yearning for a saviour to guide them and help them out.The 'encroachment' upon Muslim space had become unbearable.In such situation traditionally Muslims start looking for Mahdi.

2. Centuries of ajami influence upon Muslim minds had created a softening of their approach towards kashaf,Elham and cult like structures,making some of them easy targets for any new aspirant to claim the position of the awaited messiah

3. The gradual way in which Mirza introduced his real motives (from a preacher to Mujaddad to messiah) made it difficult for most of Uluma to identify the true evil in him,except a few outstandingly intelligent amongst them,most of them Ahle Hadeeth.

4. Mirza first created a 'turbulence' amongst people by making tall claims about 'Barahine Ahmadia' and overnight got himself introduced in many circles by making an unusually loud challenge about his book.That turned him into a celebrity from being a nobody...

5. Help by the might of British empire in many material ways,including finding new recruits for him, and creating secure atmosphere for his work.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 13:38
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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There are so many threads on this clown, we can open a circus!
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 15:55

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani was a nobody and nothing important to the British. He was not known for his debate prowess but his fame came from challenging the British missionaries in debate. It’s like me challenging the world heavy weight boxing champion of the world! I will become famous not because I am a great boxer but because of the audacity of my challenge.

Two things happened which catapulted Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani to fame which is EXACTLY where we are today!

  1. Printing Press: Religious books were written and consumed by those who sat at the feet of the Ulama, with the advent of Printing Press in India Mirza was able to bypass Ulama. For the first time in the history of India, books were being compiled and consumed without the guidance of Ulama.
  2. Begum Bhopal: Miraz was also poor so he could not have taken advantage of the Printing Press. His break came when Sultan Shah Jahan, Begum of Bhopal (1838-1901) decided to pour (thousands) into his publications. Begum Saheba was married to Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan (1832-1890) was a famous Ahl-e-Hadeeth and he also had access to HER vast sums of money. Miraz went to them for charity and they obliged and gave Mirza the financial clout to publish and become famous.

It MUST BE NOTED that neither Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan nor Begum Saheba were aware of Mirza’s true Aqeedah as he claimed Prophethood after the passing away of Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan and Begu, Saheba was too ill for the last ten years of her life to know anything better. The court continues charity as in the lifetime of Nawab Saheb and Begum Saheb.

The Point!

Ulama COULD NOT compete because their influence was bypassed by Mirza as printing press was a brand new invention. In our times we have YouTube and Internet, anyone can write and have access to thousands of more people then Ulama and influence thousands.

The solution of issuing Fatwaas against Maulana Maududi (RA) etc does not fully work AND we need to be able to compete on the platform and take eyeballs away from the medium. Some Ulama try to become IT experts or train in Social Media which is THE WRONG APPROACH. Ulama should specialise in knowledge but hire the best people who can advise them of Social Media and Internet, this is not happening as most Deobandi Darul-ulooms, institutes and scholars are surrounded by Hazrat-Worshippers and not the best experts in their fields. Even money is not the issue as Deobandees are mega-rich!

Example? Darul-uloom Deoband! take a look at the website and output of the most prestigious institute of the Sunni world…what is most unfortunate is that India has thousands of IT people who can help out voluntarily or provide professional grade Services at a relatively cheap cost.

The YouTube celebrities of today pose a similar challenge and in competition is Darul-uloom with their level of professionalism and output, guess who wins?

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 17:48
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2020 02:43
Please tell me if I've understood correctly:

1. Misguided people of unsound knowledge have access to money and resources.
2. They use these resources to propagate their unsound knowledge.
3. Common people have access to this unsound knowledge and ignore the supervision and guidance of Ulama.
4. Ulama are not countering the unsound knowledge in the manner in which it is being presented to the common people.
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2020 09:52

abuzayd2k wrote:
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Leave the experts to do their job.

An IT expert should not be allowed to issue a Fatwa.

Ulama should let IT experts propagate their work and not interfere.

Both are needed to do their jobs in their area of expertise.

Money is important but not as important as letting the right person do the right job



 
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2020 12:08
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Those with piety and knowledge must build a team of those with skills, money and expertise of dunyawi fields so that they could propagate their knowledge and dawah through modern channels and counter the liars.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2020 13:21

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Part 2:

The second idea this thread is trying to portray is to Crush Nepotism. It is against the Sunnah of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and the Sahaba (RA), best man for the job was their policy.

IF it was a Non-Muslim, then they asked for the Non-Muslim to train Muslims and develop the (missing) skillset

Piety and Knowledge has NOTHING to do with a skillset. If a person is a fantastic mechanic or weapon developer or scientist then it is what it is.

In my limited experience, many Muslims are cheaters, liars, deceivers and not very good at their profession but they are Muslims. I regularly get cheated by mechanics, plumbers, builders etc because they are Muslims (I lose the money for the sake of Allah Ta'ala because they live in my community so let it be)

But for a project, best person for the job.

Darul-ulooms etc employ Mureeds etc for the job (when they don't have the right skill set) so projects fail.

Nepotism over Skill is a CANCER!

 
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2020 22:00
I'm still confused. How does all this tie in with Maulana Saad (HA)?
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2020 23:26
Sorry to say this, but the hazrats need to have some humility and understand their limitations. They live in a bubble and have managed to convince themselves and their people around them that they can never be wrong. And it seems that way to them because they never leave their confort zone.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2020 06:56
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Tableeg was safe, because mashwarah was near to wajib. No one is "All In One", that is what Br @Muadh is saying.

Consultation and all Inclusive mechanism is the very fundamental principle of tableeg. Wherever this was diluted, chaos were witnessed.

Mashwarah must be done with "Zaabte ki shura", the members have wisdom, the members know they are accountable. They fear while offering their view.

It is taqdeer, whatever has happened can not be undone.
shoora fitna hai saad sab.jpg
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2020 18:32
ssaad wrote:
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Maulana Saad:

Shura is Fitnah

13MAY2020 (Edit): Someone accused me that I partially quoted "Maulana Saad (HA) and it is not fair. To quote him further is even more damning!

Shura (consultation) is a command of Allah Ta'ala, to create a Majlise-e-Shura (a consultative body) to consult upon the affairs of this body is thus necessary by extension.

In this quote, he says that to create a Majlise-e-Shura (a consultative body) is a path to division and should be abandoned and in fact regards it to the BIGGEST FITNAH!

I don't know what kind of Jackasses believe this guy? To create a Majlise-e-Shura (a consultative body) is generally the FIRST and FOREMOST act of any Islamic endeavour and proven directly from the Qur'aan. It is the action of the Sahaba (RA) in Government, in legislation, in war etc.

How can Muslims get this ignorant that they believe the rants of "Maulana Saad" which directly and empathically goes against the Qur'aan?

Can they not R-E-A-D?

Loading Qur'aan Verse

So will people listen to someone who wrecked the work of Tableegh OR Allah Ta'ala?





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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2020 11:57
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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This post is from 2018, today is 13th of May 2020.

Darul-uloom Deoband has been repeatedly approached to fix their website. We have even offered to fly someone from UK to India to sit down with their IT team and explain them the issues.

We have offered to explain on Phone, Skype, email...Begged the Shura to put us in touch with them.

This issue has been ongoing since 2016 and so far NOTHING.

Each approach is answered by "Masha'Allah, sure we will have a meeting" and then nothing.

Last approach by me personally on Saturday, 25th of April 2020 and this time I was again promised that someone from their IT department will contact me, NOTHING

I again offered to have someone fly to India to sit down with them to fix their website (search and indexing), once again I explained in absolute details and examples of the problems and the impact.

NOTHING!

The Muslims are in India are in a mess and there are genuine reasons of incompetence for it. Some of these Institutions in India have budgets in the Lakhs/Crores of Rupees

Since this post, Indian Muslims have gone from one debacle to another, from BJP Riots to Maulana Saad's dismantling of Tableeghi and making it the villain of India.

The depths to which the reputation of Indian Muslims are sinking is still not visible, they are still sinking!

Good and bad happens from Allah Ta'ala but you don't have to be a genius to figure out Dunya reasons for decline of Indian Muslims.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2020 15:30
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Sir, please, with the greatest of respect, you are well aware that to partially quote someone is not just and equitable.

I do not doubt that you have sound evidence for your position, but this is not in your typical style of thorough refutation.

If an alim has said "hadith is a misguidance" then it is unfair of me to not quote the background in which this was said.

EDIT (May 14, 2020): Thank you for calling us "Jackasses." We deserve it. This is why elders such as Maulana Ahmad Sadiq Desai (HA) rebuke in the particular style that they use. They know what disease needs to be cured using which bitter medicine. I am genuinely happy to see people emulate him. May Allah سبحانه وتعالى increase his tribe and open my eyes to the truth. Ameen.
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