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#361 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:21
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Is Alaihi Salam not used for Prophets?

Either accept that you made a mistake by using AS with Sayyidina Mahdi or give Sharai' evidence for your writing Alaihi Salam with Sayyidina Mahdi.

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#362 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:30

Authorizer Update: Correction posted in later post


sipraomer wrote:
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Firstly, the issue IS NOT about "AS", once you understand and grasp the basic fact the issue can move on.

  • You have misunderstood
  • You have made accusations on me
  • You have made accusations on Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA)
  • you have belittled and tried to be funny with the cousin and son-in-law of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)

ONCE your poison and arrogance is subdued and you RECOGNIZE that you will STAND before Allah and answer for your slanders and accusations, rest of the issues can be discussed.

Humans make mistakes and Islam tells us to ADMIT and back down. Instead, you keep on escalating and have reached the cousin of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) in your slander!

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#363 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:31
sipraomer wrote:
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Please translate عليه السلام
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#364 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:32
Muadh Khan wrote:
you have belittled and tried to be funny with the cousin and son-in-law of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)

The Avatar is the same for two different users; sipraomer and muslimman. Please do not mix them up.
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#365 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:35

abu mohammed wrote:
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My sincere and unreserved apology to sipraomer for getting it wrong.

I am sincerely Sorry.


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#366 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:43
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You are a true gentleman. I admire and respect you.
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#367 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 10:45
I announce that I am changing my avatar.
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#368 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 11:19

sipraomer wrote:
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I do not require your praise or acknowledgment, I require my books to deeds to be free of sins and errors on the day of judgement. Your arrogance can take you to wherever you desire...

I made a mistake on the ancillary parts but the main issue remains the same. The objection is not to (AS) but to the prefix "Imam". If I had time I will consult Hazrat Mufti Ebrahim Desai (HA) but it is not important to me...

It is not used in classical Islamic terminology and it is a cultural issue borrowed from the Shias. None of the earliest and reliable books of Aqeedah or Fiqh use "Imam" Mahdi at all. This is non-existent concept!

We have nothing to do with "Imam" Mahdi but we have everything Insha'Allah to do with Sayyiduna Mahdi (AS), "some" Malikees disagree but it is overall a consensus of opinion among all 4 Madhabs and a bedrock of Sunni Aqeedah.

Mahdi is not a name, its a title and out of respect to the Aal of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) I (and others) suffix "AS" to it, it is not restricted to Prophets alone.

I can also get away with just "Mahdi" but I do not wish to.

The prefix "Imam" was/is the problem when I made my post. It is blindingly obvious to everyone reading it except for you because poison and hate cannot let you understand clear text.


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#369 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 12:06
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
Mahdi is not a name, its a title and out of respect to the Aal of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) I (and others) suffix "AS" to it, it is not restricted to Prophets alone.


This was the thing which I was asking. As for your accusations of arrogance and blah blah blah! I will call it your style of expressing your views. Because after your pointing out, in that thread, I have stopped using Imam and instead started using Sayyidina with Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه. So I don't know where I have not retracted from my mistake in my "arrogance".

You haven't given any evidence in support عليه السلام not being restricted to Prophets alone. according to the teachings of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaat.

Shias use عليه السلام for Sayyidina Ali رضي الله عنه , Sayyidina Hassan رضي الله عنه and Sayyidina Hussain رضي الله عنه and also Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه.

By the way, Imam also means "Leader". So it is not necessary that if a person is using Imam with Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه then he is agreeing with the concept of Imamate as par the teachings of Shia. Also there are some Sunni ulema who use the prefix Imam with Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه. For instance



So it doesn't make these ulema Shia. Or does it?
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#370 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 17:10

Demand for Evidence?

Another proof of stupidity...

Certain Muslims "celebrate the birthday" of Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam), when they are told that Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) never celebrated his birthday they demand:

Prove us that celebrating birthday of Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) is HARAM!

AS or عليه السلام Alayhis Salam is a general and translates in English to "peace be upon him", it is indeed used for Prophets but it is N-O-T restricted to Prophets alone.

Case of AS:

  1. I am using it because there is no prohibition against using it for someone other then Prophets
  2. G-E-N-I-U-S is suggesting that it is restricted to be used for Prophets O-N-L-Y

And then demanding me to prove my point instead of his point which is restrictive. As a general ruling matters are Mubah (permissible) unless specific evidence exists to the contrary which makes the issue HARAM (impermissible). G-E-N-I-U-S is suggesting an issue to be "impermissible" in Shariah but asking me to prove permissibility (which is by default).

My point has N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with AS at all. It is to do with I-M-A-M

Shia "Imam" Mahdi:

  1. Shiahs believe in 12 Imams with "Imam" Mahdi being an Imam in hiding for hundreds of years in a C-A-V-E
  2. Sunnees do NOT believe in any Imams and do not believe anyone to be hiding in a C-A-V-E

Quote:
Imam Hasan al-Askari (the 11th Imam) who was born on the 15th of Sha’ban 255/869 in Samarra, Iraq. He became the divinely appointed Imam when his father was martyred in 260/874. Imam al-Mahdi went into occultation (disappearance; leaving among people while he is not identified) at the same time. He will re-appear when Allah wills. He was 5 YEARS OLD when he went missing in a cave.

Sunni Sayyiduna Mahdi (RA):

  1. A normal person who will be born to normal parents
  2. Live a normal life
  3. He will be a "Mujtahid"
  4. N-E-V-E-R in the history of Sunni Islam (Aqeedah+Fiqh) has he been declared an "Imam" in the sense of Shia Aqeedah.  

Proof by the G-E-N-I-U-S:

  1. I said that the in the classical books of Aqeedah and Fiqh he is N-E-V-E-R called the "Imam"
  2. I then said that Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) writes that the prefix of "Imam" comes from Shia influence
  3. I never said that a person becomes a Shia by using the term, here are my exact words for the 3rd time in the same thread

Quote:

Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) and others have advised to refrain from addressing Mahdi (AS) as "Imam" Mahdi (AS). There is no such thing in the Sunni doctrine at all, no one calls him "Imam" Mahdi (AS) it is a Rafidhi terminology. I assumed that you are Sunni, previously.

Consider it or have your ego brush this aside, don't really care...

Why do we need to "forget" about Sayyiduna Mahdi (AS) to speak about these topics? These are genuine and grave concerns and so is the emergence of Dajjal, second coming of Sayyiduna Isa (AS) and Mahdi (AS). Why does it needs to be neglected?

There is a serious problem with garbage collection in Karachi:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49562462

W-H-Y do we need to F-O-R-G-E-T about Mahdi (AS) in order to address the filth problem in Karachi?

So how does the G-E-N-I-U-S respond?

He responds by quoting the cover of a book by the head of Al-Qaeda (India/Pakistan) in Urdu to justify his use of "Imam"

  1. Doesn't quote books of Aqeedah
  2. Doesn't quote books of Fiqh
  3. G-E-N-I-U-S quotes the head of Al-Qaeda in response!



The reason for the Facepalm is that G-E-N-I-U-S states:

Because after your pointing out, in that thread, I have stopped using Imam and instead started using Sayyidina with Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه

I never called anyone Shia or made Takfeer of anyone on the issue but the G-E-N-I-U-S is presenting books of Al-Qaeda to prove a practice which he has abandoned!

G-E-N-I-U-S is arguing that AS should not be used for Sayyiduna Mahdi (AS) but rather it should be Sayyiduna Mahdi (RA), either is a honorific title but G-E-N-I-U-S believes that using "RA" is permitted while "AS" is forbidden and I need to provide him evidence for using it while he is fully permitted to use "RA".






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#371 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 18:55
The wise man must know that Sunnis use the prefix Imam with Hazrat Abu Hanifa رحمة الله عليه, Hazrat Shafi رحمة الله عليه, Hazrat Ahmed ibn Hanbal رحمة الله عليه, Hazrat Malik رحمة الله عليه. Does this make Sunnis Shia?

The wise man has also said that "I assumed you are Sunni, previously"

Quote:
There is no such thing in the Sunni doctrine at all, no one calls him "Imam" Mahdi (AS) it is a Rafidhi terminology. I assumed that you are Sunni, previously.


Well some ulema from Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaat do call him Imam Mahdi.

Ulema have always used عليه السلام with Anbiya but the wise man has introduced a new biddah of using عليه السلام with Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه and is not willing to provide evidence for what he is doing. It is the practice of Shia to use عليه السلام with those other than Prophets because some of Shias consider their Imams higher than Prophets or even higher than Allah himself. (Nowudhubillah min zalik).

The wise man can make all sorts of noises but can't provide evidence.

The wise man is literate enough in Arabic to quote Arabic answers in reply to questions asked in English. However, the wise man doesn't want to admit that Imam means leader and if used as a prefix then it doesn't necessarily mean that the person using it with Sayyidina Mahdi رضي الله عنه has become a Shia.

Shia's Mahdi is different than the real Mahdi رضي الله عنه which Sunnis believe in based on the ahadith of Rasoolullah (s.a.w.)

The wise man has made different rules for others.

However, since we are living in a democracy, it is the right of the wise man to do what he wishes. :P
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#372 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 19:52

To Everyone else:


  1. "Imam" Abu Haneefa (RA) is the same according to Shia and Sunnees
  2. "Imam" Mahdi according to Shias is a boy who disappeared into a cave hundreds of years ago and will reappear near the day of judgement and will revive Islam which has been corrupted and bring true Islam
  3. Sayyiduna Mahdi (AS) according to Sunnees is a Mujtahid Imam who will review Islam according to Sunnah of Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam)

It is preferred NOT TO PREFIX "Imam" to Mahdi (AS) to avoid resemblance with the Shia. The Shia distract, spin and change the topic to hide their Deen and inflict their untrue belief upon the Sunness, [like what is being done in this thread by the G-E-N-I-U-S]

It is preferred NOT TO PREFIX "Imam" to Mahdi (AS) to avoid resemblance with the Shia. The Shia distract, spin and change the topic to hide their Deen and inflict their untrue belief upon the Sunness, [like what is being done in this thread by the ]

sipraomer wrote:
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To the G-E-N-I-U-S:


Loading Qur'aan Verse

I am on the Aqeedah of Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) while you call people towards Confucius and Shia, I make Dua to reach my end on whom I love and call while you belong to whom you love and call people towards!

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#373 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 20:01
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#374 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 20:18
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Keep on accusing me of the things I haven't done and help me in increasing my rewards. Jazak Allah. I am loving it.
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#375 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2019 20:26
To the rest of my Brothers and Sisters

Please don't use عليه السلام for other than prophets as it is the practice of Shias unless you have proofs from ulema from Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaat doing it.
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