You are putting giving further credibility to my point and either deliberately or innocently not understanding what I am trying to say.
Dr Allamah Iqbal (RA) is in your psyche due to your environment and education, you have studied him (later) but the impression was set at a younger stage because he is all over the Media, education system. To such an extent that all legitimate issues are brushed under the carpet because he was a perceived “Ashiq-e-Rasool”.
This was NOT the case in his lifetime or even afterwards as there were legitimate concerns about his personality and his poetry (both). NEVERTHELESS at your request let’s put all that aside because that is not my point. My point is not Dr Allamah Iqbal (RA) ALTHOUGH if you wish to start about him let us set the record straight (in history) but let me repeat I DO NOT WANT TO…I don’t care what you believe or don’t believe…I am trying to say to look at issues from the perspective of others.
My point is that Turkish people grow up with a manic fervour for Ata-Turk and they legitimately don’t come across the material which you may have knowledge of .
Shaykh Sudais is a Qadhi (judge) and Imam of Haram…Knowledge of Imran Khan (as you have rightly alluded to previously) is rudimentary in Islam and he is a politician.
Shaykh Sudais is praising a tyrant to his FACE (or close to it)
Imran Khan is a politician who is making diplomatic remarks about (dead) Hero of a country, ABSOLUTELY they are not the same thing BUT you will keep arguing until the cows come home so carry on…
We are not discussing closeminded Pakistan in 2018, we are discussing Ottoman empire! Let’s assume that Ata-Turk was a Jew, it DOES NOT mean anything because there were plenty of Jews (and still are) to this day in Turkey.
Nations look at Heroes irrespective of religion
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Chaudhry
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Robert_Cornelius
Unless you are in Pakistan in 2018!
Ata-Turk PREVENTED Greece from taking over parts of Turkey so he is a national Hero
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%931922)
In your rudimentary mind, this can be equated to General Akhtar Hussain Malik who was a Brigadier during 1965 war and performed remarkably saved parts of Pakistan from being taken over by India
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhtar_Hussain_Malik
He was a Qadiyani
In terms of military professionalism his religion plays no part
ONCE AGAIN, NOT ASKING BOTH OF YOU TO AGREE…Asking you to understand the point of view and REFUTE FACTS
Not even saying that agree or disagree, just presenting facts which MAY LEAD someone else to a different set of conclusions then you…In other words, being a Jew during Ottoman Empire was not a big deal (assuming that he actually was).
I know that in Pakistan Imran Khan can be called a “Jew” because he married Jemima…
But whatever dude...
I believe that Allah Ta’ala will Insha’Allah grant me entry into Jannah not because of any extraordinary cats of worship but because of exercising patience with the Ummah of Nabi (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) to the utmost of my human ability.
THIS WAS NOT MY POINT!
My point was that just like you are a product of your environment, your background, your upbringing EXTEND THAT COURTESY AND RESPECT to others that they are also a product of their environment, their background and their upbringing. Their views are shaped by their events and the matter might not be as clear to them (as they are to you). Dr Allamah Iqbal (RA) was brought as an example to make a point. Your extraordinary and over the top REACTION is actually evidence that when emotions become charged, fair-minded discussions cannot occur. Apply your behaviour to someone in (Turkish) shoes.
THEN you are equating the actions of a Qadhi (Judge) who is also Imam of Haram to Imran Khan and I respectfully submit that these are not the same.
You are merely focussing on the ACTION while the entire context needs to be looked at. The error of judgement of a Qadhi (who also happens to the Imam of Haram) is FAR WORSE than a politician.
In 3 cases you are APPLYING YOUR JUDGEMENT to others and I am asking for you to look at the issue with the perspective of other people (if you can), if you cannot MOVE ON.
Let’s agree to disagree because you are simply unable to look at an issue from someone else’s perspective.
Turkish people (religious people included) DO NOT view Ata-Turk as a Kaafir or a Jew at all; it is YOUR & SIPRAOMER's perspective and of course both of you are entitled to your opinion.
Now tell me which points of your have been missed?
This conversation took place today regarding the views of the one of the Major Pakistani scholar in the world (today), he in Sunni, his Aqeedah is sound and has written much about the history of Ottomans...He is fluent in Turkish, Urdu and Arabic.
Years of experience of Turks, Turkey, local situation, extensive links and knowhow etc.
Q: Was Ata-Turk a Jew?
A: No
Q: Was Ata-Turk a Kaafir?
A: No
Q: What is his reality?
A: His actions are major and blameworthy. He was maybe motivated by money, may be motivated by power or prestige…Similar to many politicians of Pakistan who sell their religion and their land to others…
I do not have permission to reveal his name.
P.S: I have asked this question so many times to Turks over the years. I understand that Sipromer will open a thread and blame me for defending Ata-Turk, to all reasonable people I am neither defending Ata-Turk nor justifying his actions! I am merely commenting on a separate issue and trying to get to the bottom of the issue with facts.
Do as you wish with this information.
Wrong!
I am not presenting any theories.
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
Please wait...
