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Is it better for woman to go out to the Eid prayers or to stay at home?

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2018 10:47
during prophet SAW time, women went to Eidgah to attend the sermons of prophet saw.
Also we must remember those ladies were Sahabiya;

Today we see fitnah everywhere; also Amma Aisha RA 's narration must be revisited before blaming Indo pak ulema.
In today's society we do have muttaqi women who understand this clearly, who hesitate to go out unless there is a necessity;
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2018 11:27
After Eid Salah, in (walking out of) a mosque near where I was passing (Eid Salah there was about 2 hours after ours) - there was a sister wearing a Pink dress and her hair (uncovered) almost came down to her knees!

Need I say more! (Once again, this is a Hanafi Mosque)
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2018 18:47
Yes that has to be addressed, and addressing it will lead to a better society on the whole. We can start with education, and creating a culture in our masjids. My own thoughts:

Ideally The men should not allow the women to go to the masjid ( really should be anywhere else) dressed inappropriately. If It's the Masjid's responsibility, then Just like you might avoid a masjid because they engage in strange bidas, or they are confrontational, or stop you from doing certain acts, or force you to do certain acts, we create a culture At the masjid, that emphasizes and teaches and enforces to the best of our ability proper dress. Average Women who aren't dressed properly would not want to keep coming to that masjid . We shouldn't be so harsh that we chase them away the first time, just like we won't chase away a male who comes to the masjid the first time but he fornicates, or drinks, or comes to the masjid in shorts . Scholars mention that since we have separate sections and partitions, the rules are 'relaxed a little bit '. For e.g. some senior salafi scholars say if women are dropped right by the masjid door and will be totally separate from the men, they can now wear perfume.

From islamqa:

Quote:
When she puts on perfume and thinks it most likely that her fragrance will not reach people and that men will not smell any of it, such as if she is going out in her husband’s car on a trip to an isolated place, or to visit her family, or she is going out in her husband’s car to a gathering for women only, or she is going to the mosque in the car and she is going to get out at the entrance to the prayer-hall that is for women only and is completely separate  from the men, then she is going to come straight back in the car without walking in the street, and other such situations where the woman does not expect to pass through the streets and her aim in putting on perfume is to keep herself clean in general as enjoined by sharee’ah. In that case there is nothing wrong with her using perfume, because the reason for the prohibition, which is that the fragrance might reach other men, does not apply. 

The evidence for that is as follows: 

(i)                The apparent reason for the prohibition in the evidence quoted above does not apply in this case, so there is no fitnah and there is no provocation of desire.

(ii)              In Sunnah there is an indication that the womenfolk of the Sahaabah used to use perfume when they thought it most likely that it would not be smelt by men. 

It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: We used to go out with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to Makkah, and we would apply perfume to our foreheads when entering ihraam, then if one of us sweated it would run down her face, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would see it but he would not rebuke her. 

Narrated by Abu Dawood (1830) and classed as hasan by al-Nawawi in al-Majmoo’ (7/219) and as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood. 

This is to be understood in the light of the conditions that were known in earlier times, when the caravan of women was separate from that of men, or the woman would be in her howdah and did not mix with men or pass by the places where they were. [/quote]


From a deobandi alim:

enterthesunnah.com/2015/11/18/masjid-partition-its-place-...
[quote]
Why a Partition?

Among the objectives of the Sunnah are upholding modesty, discouraging unnecessary gender mixing, and creating an environment conducive to engaging with one’s Lord. A proper partition is conducive to fulfilling these objectives and brings other benefits as well:

Women do not have to mind their gazes or avoid the gazes of men.
Anyone who works or studies in a mixed environment is aware that segregation of genders allows greater focus.
Breast-feeding, changing clothing, and other preparations for prayer are easier.
Women may focus on their worship without diverting their attention towards maintaining proper hijab.
Women can remain in the masjid engaged in dhikr, recitation of Qur’an and learning.
With a partition, exposing the `awrah or its contours and wearing make-up is permissible in the masjid. However, removing the partition makes all of these forbidden (haram) and sinful effectively inviting the displeasure of Allah in His own House.



Lastly even if that woman wasn't at the Masjid, you would've still seen another women dressed like that outside of the masjid passing by.

I need to find our more about this, but I have been reading that at the beginning of Islam, slave women used to walk about bare breasted, and they were were punished if they covered too much. Does anyone have info on this? So that means they would be walking around outside the masjid covered less than other women. Not sure what they had to cover for going in the masjid. If that is the case , woudl the issue of proper dress more for the woman or for the men who may see them?
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2018 19:49
salaam

why is it such a big problem for women to go to a masjid (taking into account segregation, purdah etc of course), but its fine everywhere else, such as tablighi taleem gatherings/bayans, tabligh jamaat khurooj both local and abroad, talks by shaikhs, dhikr/sufi majlis, deeni evening classes, amil gatherings, charity work in shops and elsewhere etc. and of course the rest of it like restaurants, fun fairs, weddings, college/uni, shopping centres etc. please explain why masjids is not ok, but the rest are.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2018 22:30
When we have the department of Amr bil Ma'roof.....then I'm sure we would openly tell our womenfolk to go for Salah too. Until then, no matter how much education is drilled into them/us, it's not going to be easy.

Even in Makkah, they had gigantic LCD screens outside the mosque (hajj 2012) telling the women to dress correctly and not to apply perfume, but it hasn't worked till this day.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 10:50

xs11ax wrote:
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  1. There is no prohibition for women to attend the Mosque in Islam.
  2. There is discouragement for women to attend the Mosque in Islam because Nabi (Sallallahi Alaihe Wassallam) advised a Sahabi woman that her Salah at her home is superior to her Salah:
  • In Masjidun-Nawabi
  • Behind Nabi (Sallallahi Alaihe Wassallam) as the Imam

Now apply this to her local Mosque.

To understand this simple concept, picture this:

  1. There is no prohibition for men to pray individually
  2. BUT they are discouraged to pray individually and enocuraged to pray with congregation

So anyone who loves the Sunnah should grasp both concepts.

Your argument that women are already outdoors is discussed by Mufti Tariq Saheb (HA) and you will find it in original Urdu and translation here:


What is the ruling for women attending Mosques?


Same concept applies for Eid Salah within the Hanafi Madhab as per the practise of many of the Salaf. There are others who disagree and state that women should go to Eid Salah and the issue of praying in the Mosque is separate and distinct.

Hanafi evidence from the Qur'aan and Sunnah is here

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3548_07-02-2014/are-deo...

The other side state their evidence that women should be encouraged to attend Eid Salah.


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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 16:23

Servant.Of.Allah wrote:
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Let me tell you ground reality.

I was teaching in a Masjid in my class. A Sister knocks and walks into my Class with a whole bunch of Non-Muslims (Dawah Tour) smiling and joking and without proper Hijab.

The Mosque decided to show my class to the visiting Non-Muslims, I don't have a fundamental problem with the approach. BUT:


  1. She was without Hijab
  2. She was interacting with men who were her Ghair-Mahram
  3. It is against rules and decency to disrupt a class

I said nothing BUT the Non-Muslims apologised and said, "O! We didn't mean to disrupt you guys and apologised". She was so unprofessional and STUPID that she didn't even get the point and just kept similing...

This is how STUPID this issue has become. In the same Masjid there are Sisters who are following sunnah and professionals who could have handled the same job better BUT because they are not Deobandees, this (Sister of a Deobandi) was preferred with no Hijab, no manners and half knowledge of Islam.

I had to stop my lesson and switch to basics about Islam in a manner which didn't feel forced so I went "O welcome, we were just talking about....Join the conversation...."

This Mosque is Hanafi and for years DID NOT allow women to pray and now they have women running out doing open days without any restrictions etc.

In another (Deobandi) Mosque which DOES NOT allow women to pray every few months they have Charity collections right in the Parking lot where women (covered, uncovered) are selling things, raising money talking to men openly.

I parked the car and a Sister came smiling to me, "Brother, would you like a Samosa and a Tea"....I am like what? Who are you? What's happening here!!!

The point is that Deobandees have really lost the plot!

They have gone from undue restriction to no restrictions at all.

Go to most Deobandi Mosques in Februrary on Open Days and you will see that it is free for all.  Salafi Mosques don't have this sort of problem. Go back to my posts on SF years ago and I predicted this will happen.

Its a mess...All because our Ulama have never tackled the situation and never trained the local communicities on how to handle this issue.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 16:33
salaam

i just cant understand the hypocrisy.

women are meant to stay at home. but only when it comes to the masjid.

women are meant to stay at home. but its ok as long as its not a masjid.

last week of ramadan i was in mount pleasant, batley. mount pleasant even on normal days gets very busy. even more so in ramadan. hardly any room to drive and even walking is busy at some places. one of the most busiest part of mount pleasant is at the crossroads of oxford street and purlwell lane where the one nation shop happens to be amongst other shops. they had stalls set up on the tiny bit of pavement outside the shop. anyone walking there had to dodge around the staff to get past. thats how tight it is.

the workers who were running the stall were women. out in the open for everyone to see. there was no partition between them and the men. there was no separate pathway for them and men. it was not night time, but in broad daylight in the most busiest part of the afternoon. they were not with their mahram. there was no urgent need for them to be there. but thats ok. but being in a masjid behind walls and doors away from display, away from men and boys walking and driving past, away from tight spaces near men is not ok? i would never allow my mahram to stand on a corner like that. i would rather they go to a masjid that has a stringent infrastructure and rules in place. not on a street corner.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 16:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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salaam

everything you wrote about was definitely out of order. so doesnt it make more sense that we accommodate women, but on OUR terms on not on the terms of the modernists/feminists?

our community has already allowed women free access to everything else outside the home. how long till these women start demanding access to the masjids on their terms?
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 16:53

xs11ax wrote:
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I don't know Mount Pleasant but agree with your thinking. Women can sell Samosas but cannot pray!

Makes no sense.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 20:11
Interesting. Its amazing how so many laymen and laywomen are fighting for the right s of masjid to ban women. Maulanas aren't listening to other Alims advising them to allow the women. All supposedly in the name of ' hanafi fiqh' . And none of those fighting keep their women at home.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 22:17
The reason for the active prohibition is imo also the fact that illustrous fuqaha and tabieen whom hanafis refer to have already passed a ruling (no doubt it's the ideal ruling, and the best in their times). So I think it's kind of easy to say "faqih #1, #2 and #3 have not authorised it so we won't authorise it. The method of today's mufti is also to take into account all aspects and may be sometimes having the courage to go against one ruling; I believe it's easier for them to say "women must never come because it's written in our kutub" and hid their heads in the sand concerning all the fahisha going on elsewhere.

Making everything haram and applying your own taqwa to all people is very easy, but frankly not a sign of having knowledge #IamCoprocreep
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 22:48
Zubayr wrote:
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This is not what the Ulama of our area do. They present the rulings and situations of our era and conclude that it is better to pray at home!

I've said this before in a different thread:
If given an option of getting £1 or getting £100, which would you take? Similarly, praying at home is more rewarding than at a mosque!
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 23:04
But no one has to conclude that it is better to pray At home. The majority that allow women to come also consider it better or pray at home.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 19th June 2018 23:09
abu mohammed wrote:
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salaam brother,

the issue (for me) is not about what is more rewarding or less rewarding. the prophet (saw) knew better than anyone what is more rewarding. but did he (saw) ban women from the masajid?

did the sahabah (rd) ban women from the masajid based on what is more or less rewarding?

did the sahabiyah (rd) stop going to the masajid based on what is more or less rewarding?

as far as i am aware, the prohibition is based on the possibility of fitnah. so if this is the case then why are we ok for women to go to all other islamic events such as womens taleem in peoples homes (where there is absolutely zero provisions made in the infrastructure of the house to prevent fitnah), womens bayans (again held in peoples homes and even in the masjids), zikr/sufi majlis (again usually held in a home or khanqa which are used as masjids), charity events (usually held in open fields, community centres, and even street corners), alima/deeni classes (held in various aforementioned buildings, usually in the evening even when dark in winter) etc?
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