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Disagreement with Ulama refusing to Pray Funeral Prayers

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2017 21:25

coolnessofhind.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/a-comment-on-the-...

I had not intended to write in the context of the most recent attacks. Ramadan is upon on us and hearts are in dire need of purification, especially when one can see the policies that are on the political horizon.  However, a brief interjection into the incredibly loud echo chamber that has been created, if I may.

No doubt the lurch of the government will be authoritarian in the best of neoconservative moulds, with more calls to implement closed society measures. Hilariously, the precarious Theresa May has just announced that she will tear up “human rights laws” to fight terrorism.  In doing so she will become the very PREVENT-defined “extremist” she and mafia of neocons endlessly harp on about.  PREVENT officers, you may need to refer this unstable lady as she has very publicly and vocally opposed “British values”.

As for the Muslim response, much can be said on a number of alarming behaviours. However, I will for now limit it to a statement by some 200 Muslims scholars and activists urging Imams to refuse the burial of terror suspects.

 

With the greatest of respect to our dear Ulama and organisations that have signed the statement (excluding of course the CVE/PREVENT propagating opportunists like Shaukat Warraich, Manwar Ali and Qari Asim), with great consternation, I am struggling to see the benefit of this statement.

I have briefly outlined six points in this regard.

  1. If the aim is to deter future attacks, the “khawarij”, “takfiri” attackers don’t take you as a source of authority, frankly.
  2. If the aim is to send out a message of rejection of the attack, then Muslims have been doing this for over a decade and it has only sought to cement the notion that Muslims as a collective are responsible for a nut job. And herein lies the damaging effect: the realm of the political as understood in the modern context. This assumption of collective guilt feeds the virulent neoconservative clash of civilisations dogma that Muslims are potential terrorists and Islam is inherently problematic. It divides the Muslim community further as those who take a different theological view or indeed take steps to ensure the religious burial rites are fulfilled are going to be framed as supporters of terrorists and therefore “extremists”.
  3. In relation to point 2, if Muslims proceed to bury the suspects and are persecuted as a result through the draconian counter-terrorism/extremism frameworks, have the signatories to the statement unwittingly aided in their persecution?
  4. A further comment with regards to point two: my question is, are the “moral reasons” outlined cryptically in MCB’s statement genuinely part of theological discussions or is the stance a PR exercise driven by political convenience as point 2 indicates? This question is perhaps better understood with a further question: notwithstanding the variant contextual assumption of utilising a classical opinion in the present context, would everyone on the statement be so readily willing to put their name to a statement which espouses a similar call against Muslims that join the British army and contribute to the terrorising of civilian populations in the Middle East and Afghanistan over the past fifteen years? The answer to this question will give a good indication as to whether the statement is political posturing.
  5. If particular reporting around this statement are analysed, it swiftly becomes evident that this exercise is being framed in a manner which makes it concordant to a corrosive narrative set by Theresa May. This narrative is against the backdrop of shocking calls for internment of extremists, which will no doubt be framed in a manner that respects superficial liberal sensibilities.
  6. In relation to point 5, the counter-extremism agenda is intrinsically linked to Muslim cognitive change and ultimately a deformation of Islam. The purpose of state repression is to psychologically and physically modify the behaviour of the target. The fact remains that we have ourselves modified our own behaviour to the detriment of the Muslim diaspora. The issue of “condemnation” is an example of effected behavioural change, with neocons and crusader Anglicans demanding extractions of condemnations from Muslims over 10 years ago, explicitly as the first step to the deformation of Islam.  Indeed, if our behaviour can be changed little by little, the deformation of Islam agenda can be implemented little by little. Placing aside the fact a loon like Katie Hopkins has endorsed the statement signed by scholars, it is telling that US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has also welcomed the move. Tillerson has supported ardent neocons like Iraq war architect and signatory to the warmongering Project for a New American Century Elliot Abrams. He has failed to rule out the obnoxious “Muslim registry”, and explicitly stated that “radical Islam” – which includes the Muslim Brotherhood – would be his “top priority” when he became the Secretary of State.  Whilst welcoming the Imams’ statement, Tillerson added,

“We have to win this fight in the ideological sense as well, and that means getting into the social media space, getting into the mosque, getting into the majlis, getting into the conversation Now, only the Muslim faith can handle this. And in the discussions with the Muslim countries in Riyadh this was one of the commitments we asked, and there was a center created to counter extremism.”

In other words, for the likes of Tillerson and their discriminatory policies of persecution targeting Muslims, such statements dovetail counter-extremism efforts as exemplified by the counter-extremism centre that was inaugurated infamously with Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, Trump and Salman bin Abdul Aziz placing their hands on an illuminated globe. Sisi, backed by the likes of Tony Blair, US neocons and white supremacists, is at the forefront of driving a deformation of Islam as part of his “counter-terrorism” efforts.  Saudi Arabia, to the chagrin of Trump, has entered into a diplomatic spat with Qatar demanding that it ends its support for the Muslim Brotherhood. And per form, the compromised Al-Azhar University has given the isolation of Qatar its religious approval.

Whilst there is no doubting the sincerity of the respected Ulama, I fail to see the benefit of this statement.  In fact, the harms reverberate both in terms of time and space; long-term for the Muslim diaspora, and geopolitically in relation to Muslims. This politicisation of Islam is detrimental to the Muslim minority and strategically a bad move.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2017 22:39
In the eyes of these evil people, the 3 murderers are Martyrs and the refusal to offer their janazah, these Imams will strengthen their evil and corrupted ideologies

They will use this as their evidence:
The majority of scholars said that the funeral prayer should not be offered for him. That is the view of Imam Maalik and al-Shaafa’i, and the two views narrated from Imam Ahmad. See al-Mughni, 2/334. That is because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not pray for the martyrs of Uhud (narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1347), and because the purpose behind the funeral prayer is to intercede for the deceased. But the martyr receives expiation for everything (so he has no need of intercession), apart from debt; debt is not waived because of martyrdom, rather it remains owed by the deceased.

So would it not be better to offer the prayer or just get a layman in the the least to offer their janazah prayers!

Don't strengthen their false beliefs
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2017 23:01
abu mohammed wrote:
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That's a distortion on their part with false comparisons. The main thing is that we shouldn't practice our Din based on what others think but for Allah Ta'ala, according to the Sunnah, as explained by the fuqaha of the 4 madhahib. The fuqaha's rationale behind not making their janazah (by the leaders) is such acts are major sins committed against the public, making official and community sanction of them unwarranted and that those who perpetrate such acts and endanger public safety don't deserve official/public endorsement.

Nothing to do with the rationale behind not praying for a martyr. The former has to do with explicit text of his forgiveness (due to a good act) while the latter has to do with official censure, not supporting a crime which endangers the public.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 00:41
our imams dont have issues praying over gangsters, pimps,druggies, and other lowlifes so why make this exemption for the fools whos carried out the attacks? to please the kuffar who will never be happy with islam? not to down play wot these guys did but they are better than the former group of people i mentioned who probably never prayed fasted who knew anythin abt islam. these 3 guys just went extreme and got exploited. if they cant learn true jihad from real scholars they will learn it online and 'hate' preachers
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 00:43
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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Haafiz saab, it's not about how we interpret the deen, it's how others could! take this for am example.

Fictional News story.
Daesh celebrate martyrdom
It has emerged that Daesh and Al-Muhajiroon, the banned Islamist group have celebrated the martyrdom of their 3 musketeers on their website.

Daesh tweeted earlier today that their musketeers were officially recognised as shaheed by the imams of UK as shariah law dictates that martyrs are not given a funeral prayer and the British imams recognised their high status.

Daesh praised the imams for showing the world the supreme status of a martyr.

Al-Muhajiroon supporters took to the streets of the UK with ISIS banners and plaques with the words, "We Won!" putting to shame all the good work done by Sunni Muslim's.

MCB are still too comment as it looks like their decision has backfired.



You see, it's not what we base our Deen on, it's how these rotten apple will see it.

To defeat them, we must not give them a glimmer of hope.

They take the words of Allah out of context, what's stopping them from taking MCB's decision out of context?
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 00:47
mkdon101 wrote:
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Allah says:

“O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand.

119. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur’aan]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’

120. If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but if some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it. But if you remain patient and become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious — See V.2:2), not the least harm will their cunning do to you. Surely, Allaah surrounds all that they do”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:118-120]

“Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) till you follow their religion. Say: ‘Verily, the Guidance of Allaah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.’ And if you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’aan), then you would have against Allaah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper”

[al-Baqarah 2:120]
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 01:52
Asaaghir wrote:
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Wouldn't that put us on the other side of the same coin and make us fall into the very thing we're accusing the others of?; changing a mas'alah based on what others may think or claim.

Hypothetically, why can't we announce that these men due to their crimes are not afforded an official, communal burial as to make an example of censure and disapproval of such acts and explain that their burial is to give them the basic human and Islamic right of a deceased person? Criminals according to Islamic burial laws aren't considered as martyrs. Simple.

There's always gonna be those from ahlul batil who deliberately misconstrue texts, laws, statements, situations etc so we can't entirely prevent or stop that.

Sincere intelligent people (although it's hard in these times) can and do discern Haqq from Batil. We just have a lot of work to do...
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 10:21
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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Quote:
Sincere intelligent people (although it's hard in these times) can and do discern Haqq from Batil. We just have a lot of work to do...


Actually we Muslims have to grow up. We simply have not come of age in modern times.

*****

No one asked the Imams to exhibit their resentment of the deceased in such an overt and vehment manner. They did it out of their own volition. From Fiqh point of view it was not warranted. If the deceased were thinking of themselves as maryrs or there are some people who think of the deceased as martyrs then this should not confuse us to bring martyrdom into discussion.

With that taken care of just allow, as suggested by Hafiz Sahab, some less than high level religious or temporal functionaries to do the Funeral prayers.

Looking from a distance the British society does not have any inclination to wear your faith on your sleeve and they do not demand that you wear your opposition to acts of terrorism on your sleeve. If we take that for granted then there was no need for these Imams to go over board to make spectre like gesture of their stand and viewpoint. By such explicit actions these honourable people will send out signals that are not beneficial and these are not dignified ones.

And for the sake of Allah SWT everytime Muadh Khan speaks we need not make it a weakness of his personal character by resorting to ad hominem. If he takes a stand then it is, Masha Allah, strength of character and not weakness.

Finally I personally feel that British Muslims fall at the core of that sector of Ummah which will decide the collective stance and stand of the Ummah vis-a-vis the modern west. In view of this our British Muslims must smooth out their internal wrinkles and make conscious effort to take a leadership role.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 10:30

Sulaiman84 wrote:
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Hafiz Saheb,

Your principle is fine (theoretically) but falls short in practise because of two reasons:

Timeline:

  1. 3rd of June 2017: Terrorist incident occurs
  2. 5th of June 2017: Police name the first "attacker"
  3. 5th of June 2017: MCB issue statement
  4. 6th of June 2017: Police name the third "attacker"

So far there has been no trial and no official conviction in a court.

Ulama have no independent verification, no witness and nothing to back their position. In Islamic Shariah there HAS TO BE credible and authentic evidence of the person engaged in Kabai’r.

Ulama who issues this Fatwa, do not.

Precedence:

As everyone is rightly pointing out that we have fornicators, drug peddlers, murderers and our Ulama have never invoked this principle.

Therefore this is a political stance.

Time will further prove why this is an extremely bad idea for British Muslims when this provision won’t be invoked for anything other than Terrorism.

You are a sensible person and surely you can see that invoking this for Terrorism (only) is dubious.

We could understand if our Ulama woke up this week and refused to pray Janazah for those commit major sins.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 11:37
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I agree with you on this. Whenever the terrorism card is played blaming all Muslims, which go hand in glove when some young Muslim chap commits a crime, the legal process, logic and the right to question and investigate all get tossed outta the window. For everyone else, it's an individual crime, lone wolf act, or because of mental problems.

The political and social environment has made us mostly reactionary and that's a weakness no doubt.

I understand the decisions our Ulama and leaders have made is a political shot in the foot from one angle but, we need to be more inclusive of them if we want to change our plight in the future.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 19:01
5. It is not merely the sin of mass murder in itself that is deserving of this response, but *specifically doing so in the name of Islam.*
This is what differentiates it from general crimes like murder, drug dealing, etc.

from dr. asim yusuf.

read his justification here: m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1270667906384511&id=1...
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2017 21:04
did the killers of usman رضي الله عنه ali رضي الله عنه hussain رضي الله عنه get janazas? if so then so should these clowns. what they did is nothing compared to what the killers of sahaba did
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2017 01:58
Shaykh Zahir Mahmood

Enough is Enough

#Enoughisenough of these vile, inhumane, irreligious attacks on innocent civilians in the name of our beautiful religion.
#Enoughisenough of the government denying that their foreign policy has "nothing to do with attacks on our shores", when there were zero attacks before the invasion of Iraq, placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Muslim community.
#Enoughisenough of these “superhero imams, scholars and organisations” who only voice their outrage when an atrocity is committed on Western shores and have never uttered a word regarding the injustices in Burma, Congo, Syria and other places. They should not be surprised when their hypocrisy is called out and their words have zero impact, creating distrust for them in the eyes of the very individuals they need to engage.

#Enoughisenough of Muslims using these evil attacks as an opportunity to grind old axes and exploit sectarian divides.
#Enoughisenough of our government embracing policies from the most right wing Islamophobic think thanks in the UK and then express surprise in the alienation of the Muslim community and a climate of distrust.
#Enoughisenough of the unfettered demonisation of the Muslim community by the tabloids, news, MPs and every perceivable bigot.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2017 18:24
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2017 19:17
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