Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Why we can't unite with Barelwi's

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
abu mohammed
Rank Image
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
4,070
Brother
4,052
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
#46 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 15:45
Yasin wrote:
View original post


I am from a Barelvi background, couple of other points to note here... Traditionally amongst the Barelvi masses there is great affection for the love of and stories of awliyah.

Growing up mostly heard stories of Awliyah, most prominently "Baba Farid" Shaykh khwajah Faridudin Masud Ganj Shakar (RA), as well as Shaykh Abdul Qadir Gilani (RA) amongst others.

Traditionally many Barelvis have never heard of "Ala Hazrat" or if they have they only know he is the author of the naat recited on at Barelvi gatherings " Mustafah Bazme rahmat Koh Laakhon salaam" given that amongst your average Barelvi someone who is known to have performed "Miracles" is considered of high status and it is these Sufi luminaries were the affection of Barelvi awam has been most strong .

"ALa Hazrat" not having any Miracles to his name has failed to achieve the same affection historically amongst ordinary Barelvis.

But amongst the younger generation over the last 15 to 20 years or so... The name of "ALa Hazrat" is more familiar and greater attachment , and in every gathering they now refer to as "We The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat, the followers of the Maslik of Ala Hazrat".

The buzz words "Maslik Ala Hazrat" have been promoted heavily to differentiate between true "Ahle Sunnat wal Jamat" that is Barelvis and everyone else. Traditionally Barelvis have been very lax and infact mediocre in delivering an attractive message to the youth they seemed to have very few speakers who were well versed in English, over the last decade or so this has changed, and after seeing many youth attracted by the lectures of Deobandis and Salaafis, they renewed their hostility with added vigour, most prominently against Deobandis. You will find that on their forums the hostility being promoted against Deobandis is greater then everyone else.

The more well known and popular a Deobandi speaker the greater the hostility, years ago it was Shaykh Riyadh Ul Haq (DB) these days its Shaykh Zahir Mahmood (DB)

No gathering of Barelvis is complete unless some mention is made of "Wahabbis" I recently attended a Janazah of a relative, and even in the short talk given by the moulvi before the Janazah was about Wahabbis, in some Masjids every Jummah Khutbah is about the fitnah of Wahabbis.

Despite this I have personally only encountered amongst my relatives and friends only one individual who had developed a blind takfiri attitude after being brainwashed even he after listening to a lecture of Shaykh Riyadh Ul Haq (DB) was forced to admit "I have never heard a lecture like this before", and as he stated whilst the bayaans of the Barelvis are stories parables and rhetoric, lecture by Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq (DB) was based on Ayaats of Quran and Hadith.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
27,454
Brother
9,578
abu mohammed's avatar
#47 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:07
I see change in the family too. Also from a Barelwi background but never bought up as one since our madrasah was Deobandi. Nevertheless, I used to be called Wahabi when I would visit my dad's family, and my dad used to always taunt me about it too and when I would take it to the next level, I would be re labelled as a "Najdi"

Miss the good old days. It was like Fact Vs Comic book.

Anyways, things have changed dramatically. My dad's side of the family is still more or less Barelwi (those back home) but the ones here are more in-betweeners! "sunni" but Deobandi leaning. The reason for that is television, believe it or not.

Today, my dad and his family (in the UK) are Peace TV addicts - And since it is biddah/shirk free with evidence :), they are more inclined towards their methodology, yet will not speak ill of Barelwism - rather they have appreciated the goodness that Deoband has instilled in the youth of this country and say that the Barelwi's back home have become ignorant as they DON'T go back to the source.

When I was younger, I had to debate with my dad what and where Barelwi teachings were wrong, today, he is an expert in that field. BUT now I have to correct him when he starts preaching Fiqh issues learnt from Peace TV :( One small example was when he told my son to combine his Salah :(
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,704
Brother
289
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#48 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:09
Its not Wahabi the word is "wobblers"...You all showing your age :P
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
27,454
Brother
9,578
abu mohammed's avatar
#49 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:16
Quote:
Traditionally Barelvis have been very lax and infact mediocre in delivering an attractive message to the youth they seemed to have very few speakers who were well versed in English, over the last decade or so this has changed, and after seeing many youth attracted by the lectures of Deobandis and Salaafis, they renewed their hostility with added vigour, most prominently against Deobandis. You will find that on their forums the hostility being promoted against Deobandis is greater then everyone else.

Their new kid on the block is Shaykh Muhammad Asrar Rashid - Not heard anything of his yet, neither intend to do so, unless its a farce or debate video.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
4,070
Brother
4,052
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
#50 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:29
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


Yeah "Wobblers" and "Devbandits"....

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
4,070
Brother
4,052
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
#51 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:38
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


Yeah him and several others who have completed their studies in Syria, and some others who have been to Yemen and Al Azhar. They are very good at polemics and fiercely takfiri not just against Deobandis/Salafis but also against the likes of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Nu Ha Mim Keller, Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad, Dr Tahir Ul Qadri etc .!

Those educated purely at Barelvi Madrassahs are not as good.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Arfatzafar's avatar
Offline
India
1,269
Brother
1,586
Arfatzafar's avatar
#52 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 19:01
mkdon101 wrote:
View original post

They are 'ale saud, not ale salool'.

Why are you sending them all in hell except king faisal? Mind your words.

How many deobnadi scholars are their boot lickers? Can you write their names. plz?

Were sh ibn baaz, sh uthaymeen, sh al albani king's boot lickers?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
46
Brother
69
#53 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 23:49
Takfir of all barelwis can never be justified. It was never done by Ml. Sarfraz nor by Ml. Khalid Mahmud. Even then: to state that only these scholars have the right to assess their beliefs is wrong. We have plenty of scholars who have read their works and concluded their beliefs do not reach kufr. Barelwis are not a homogeneous group. You have extremists and you have mild barelwis. Especially the barelwi laymen who dont know anything. One should differentiate between those who are well aware of the aqida points of the barelwis surrounding hadir nazir, mukhtar al-kull, ilm al-ghayb, nur and bashar etc. and even then you have their scholars explaining this issue in a manner that would not be kufr but only innovation.

The letter of Mufti Rafi to the late Shafi Okarwi was a good start to bring unity between the groups. It was propagated strongly again when he visited UK and appeared on the iqra satelite channel of ml. Qasim.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Abu_Bilal's avatar
Offline
Pakistan
196
Brother
268
Abu_Bilal's avatar
#54 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 04:38
xs11ax wrote:
View original post


I am sorry, I misunderstood you.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abu_Bilal's avatar
Offline
Pakistan
196
Brother
268
Abu_Bilal's avatar
#55 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 04:50
xs11ax wrote:
View original post


There is a big difference between the actions of Deobandi Sufis and Barelwis. Deobandi Sufis have clear tawheed in their aqeedah. That's why I keep it mentioning again and again that our deobandi awaam should read the works of Maulana Sarfaraz Safdar (RA), since he dealt with these issues in an academic way. Just one of his books on Ilm ul Ghaib is a 1000 pages long. A deobandi sufi doing muraqabah on a grave, or helping someone in a jungle, and a barelvi claiming that Rasoolullah (SAWW) is present everywhere, are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT issues.

Deobandis believe in tawheed, with Ma Tahtul Asbaab criteria. Barelwis believe in Ma Fauq ul Asbab. Two are miles apart.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abu_Bilal's avatar
Offline
Pakistan
196
Brother
268
Abu_Bilal's avatar
#56 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 04:55
mkdon101 wrote:
View original post


Although I see where you are coming from, and I do agree with you, but I can tell with full conviction that salafies are also venomous against deobandis.

Albani was very very biased against hanafis. Similarly, shaykh usama (RA) (although he did give bayah to Mullah Omar (RA)), but he for sure was a strict salafi/hanbali with a takfeeri nature. Since this is a barelwi thread, I shall write about the salafis separately somewhere.

Just making a point ..

Also brother, I hope you don't mind, but you are sometimes very aggressive and harsh. Our akabir didn't refute the batil sects with aggression. Instead they did it academically and with a lot of hikmah and baseerah. I would like you and others to read the below article. It is brilliant. Maybe someone can translate it in English. Just one point from the article, that a young maulana called Mirza Ghulam Qadyani as a dog who barks. Immediately, his teacher (who was actually running the course against qadayanis) stopped him and said that you should say like this "Mirza Sahab says this, but we don't agree with him".

www.facebook.com/mufakireislam/posts/1040396416006315:0
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Like x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Abu_Bilal's avatar
Offline
Pakistan
196
Brother
268
Abu_Bilal's avatar
#57 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 05:09
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


I have heard Asrar Rashid. I gave him a try with an honest intention. It was good at the start, but as usual it ended up in anti-deobandi and anti-wahabi rant.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,704
Brother
289
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#58 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 09:58

Abu_Bilal wrote:
View original post

Is this Maulana the father of "Maulana" Ammar?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abu_Bilal's avatar
Offline
Pakistan
196
Brother
268
Abu_Bilal's avatar
#59 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 11:22
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


Ji.

It would be very beneficial if you or someone else could translate it .. how our akaabir tackled the misguided groups.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
xs11ax's avatar
Unspecified
3,243
Brother
2,561
xs11ax's avatar
#60 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 12:15
Abu_Bilal wrote:
View original post


salaam

the same way we explain things away by doing taweel, so do the barelwis. so what is the difference?

Quote:
Deobandis believe in tawheed, with Ma Tahtul Asbaab criteria. Barelwis believe in Ma Fauq ul Asbab. Two are miles apart.


can you please explain these 2 terms. jazakallah khair.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top