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Why we can't unite with Barelwi's

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 03:29
Abu_Bilal wrote:
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JazakAllah for the reply.
I just found out from your post that you are also a Mufti,Masha'Allah.
I will address you as Mufti sahib in future,insha'Allah.
Just one question, did you do your Ifta course from Darul Uloom Karachi as well, as you mentioned that you studied Hadith under Mufti Taqi Usmani(DB) ?
And do you teach anywhere or do Ifta at any madrassa ?
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 03:42
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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All they know is that they are "Sunni" and everyone else is "Wahhabi" 

a huge point you've mentioned he.

also our own don't know what wahhabi is. many of our own just know that they are Sunni and we are Jamati. for years I've said we're Sunni but it's really been embedded everyone's mind.

all I know from their actions is that they're anything but Sunni.

I have a friend who's barelvi but doesn't partake anything extreme. in fact his family is practising but they seem very tolerant towards the so called " Gustaakh" so I'm sure there's many kinds of them.

the problem are their leaders, poisonous.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 05:35
xs11ax wrote:
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Well can you quote any inconsistency that you have seen amongst deobandi akabir, while interpreting hadeeth? I would love to see a few instances.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 05:39
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Well I have already answered whatever you are asking or implying. Don't want to repeat it over and over again. If I have not been able to make myself clear yet, no use in going further too.
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 06:32
@abu_Bilal
what I asked in my previous post is still unanswered. What your saying about barelvis, almost the same your receiving from salafis as stated in the link.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 11:13
Arfatzafar wrote:
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i wasnt going to respond on this topic anymore but your post was too much, your not one of them goofy soofi guys are you? ur post was full of lies and no i am not a salafi.

you by ur own admission kept saying MAD KHALIS. iv already said the two groups who i will NEVER unite with is brealwis and mad khalis because both are cults who only thrive on division. they will go out their way to call others non muslims. so what mufti abu bilal is sayng is valid. find me mainstream salafis who call akaabir kaafir or stuff?

infact mad khali clowns call other salafis as kaafir and what not. go on most salafi forums they all cuss the hell out of mad khalis. u using mad khalis as salafis is like salafis using mushrik brealwis as hanafi or mamatis deobandis as deobandis. also you do get hanafi teachers in madinah university. its not a darul uloom its run like a normal western uni. u have many different subjects being taught by all sorts of people. u get extreme madkhals to even sufis teaching in there.

back to salafis and brealwis. brealwis are FOUNDED on deobandis being kaafir. salafis are not. did bin baz رضي الله عنه uthaimeen رضي الله عنه albaani رضي الله عنه call deos kaafir? bin laden (shaheed) and all them arab salafis even gave bayah to mullah umar ( shaheed) who is as deo as u get. now go find me a brealwis who gave bayah to mulllah omar (shaheed)? infact find me a brealwi who has ever even uttered a word of praise for a deo. i can find u many salafi scholars who have praisedd deo and deo scholars
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 11:27

A Barelwi says that one should say salaam while entering their homes, even if no one is inside, because in any case rasoolullah saww is in homes of each and everyone of us.

A Barelwi says that Allah has given complete 100% ilm of maa kaana wa maa yakoonu to rasoolullah saww.

A Barelwi says that Rasoolullah saww is watching you, and each and every thing in this world like a grain in your palm.

A Barelwi says that you can ask from such and such buzurg. Buzurg X can give you children, while Y is expert in solving your worldly affairs etc.

A Barelwi says that you may include any thing in Islam until and unless it is hasan, of courseaccording to your understanding.

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In the end a "Tableeghi Saathi" says, ok man! although these believes may be wrong, but they are facing the same qibla and read salaah the same way so no issue (with thier False Believes and Actions).

In response a third person, with no prior knowledge of deen deduces that Aqaid have no significance in Islam.

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 12:08
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 12:13
20+ years of negotiations with Barelwees in USA & UK has taught me something. The essence of Barelwees is opposing Deobandees...When we change to a position which is theirs within 3-6 months they change their opinion.

Their Ulama and leaders HAVE TO differentiate themselves from Deobandees at all costs, I have been through this again and again and again.

Their identity is being Anti-Wahabi at all costs.

There are some good Ulama amongst them like Maulana Ghulam Rabbani Saheb (HA) who have vision and know that we (as Muslims) need to stick together but overwhelming rank and file have serious problems with unity.

Similarly on Deobandi side we also have problems but not as much. Many Deobandees don't want unity but will come around if they see their Ulama endorse a position.

Barelwees have a far bigger problem in their ranks than Deobandees.

I am not an Alim and I am not getting into Fiqh/Aqeedah discussions but just sharing my experience, EVEN if all Deobandees agree on unity you would still have problems (from Barelwee) side.
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 12:13
Abdullah1 wrote:
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MashaAllah hazrat, well written.

Barelwis also do taweel (i.e, false interpretation) and thus escape from kufr. They would say that yes Rasoolullah (SAWW) sees every action of you, but he sees it from his grave, and he witnesses the whole world on his palm, so him being haazir naazir is different to Allah (SWT) being haazir naazir. But Maulana Sarfraz Safdar (RA) was Imam e Ahl e Sunnat for no ordinary reason, and exposed all these beliefs in pure academic and technical terms. InshaAllah, I intend to write on it in English. I have done my fair bit of writing in Urdu but people here won't understand it.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 12:47
Abu_Bilal wrote:
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salaam

is this a general question for everyone or just me? reason for asking is that i never accused the deobandi akabir of any such thing so i dont understand why you are asking me this. if you still want your question to be answered then i suggest you start another thread and define who you mean by akaabir.

i was talking about general laymen (as in this thread) taking random hadith and using their own logic to interpret the hadith according to their own bias. which you in your capacity as an alim pointed out that the hadith was interpreted wrongly.
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 14:05
Arfatzafar wrote:
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what about it? i was first to critizse deos and still do for their blind love for ale salool? u know nothing about me lol people on here will tell u i give deos much harder time than non deos and thats despite me being a deo myself. i can write all the issues/problems and what i hate about deobandis til the cows come home. just read my other posts.

iv said it for ages deos are just living off their akaabir legacies. why are deo scholars so cowarly and boot licking towards the saudi regime? they are a bunch of apostates and enemies of islam. is it because they fund them? or because they want to keep goin for hajj and umrah? i rather be banned from makkah/madinah for calling that family what they are than going there like a coward and sucking up to them fools. apart from king faisal رضي الله عنه hope all the other kings burn in hell. they are a thorn in the ummah whos whole purpose is to stop islam.

Im not a shaykh imran hosan fanboy but in his book the saudi state he mentions alot of good and valid points. why have saudis never claimed khalifat? they claim to be ruling by quran and sunnah and have control of the haramain? he said the brits did a deal with them that in return for their throne they must never claim that title. also according to many scholars to be a khilfah who must have control of the haram in order to provide the hajj. so even if IS where on haq and were good people they still cant be considered as khilafah as their leader cant even enter haram himself never mind taking the ummah with him.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 14:50
Mufti Tariq Masood of Jamiat ur Rasheed,in one of his latest bayans,mentioned why our ulama do not do takfeer of Barelvis.The reasons he mentioned were very similar to those mentioned by Mufti Abu Bilal Sahab i,e that the statements of Barelvis can be interpreted to mean something which is not clear cut Kufr/Shirk .Mufti Tariq Masood said that when confronted,then the Barelvis do not express their beliefs very clearly hence the room for interpretation.
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 15:14
if barelwis can explain their beliefs by doing taweel, then what is the difference between their beliefs and deobandi sufis who also make similar claims? eg i have heard a deobandi shaikh claim the presence of the prophet (saw) at his majlis.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 15:18

xs11ax wrote:
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How about doing Muraqabah at the grave of the dead and receiving Faiz from the dead? I would love to hear an explanation from Deobandi Sufees without Ta’weel upon Ta’weel and caveats upon caveats.

It’s not for common people it’s for “Khawas”, ordinary people can’t understand it.

Barelwees can’t benefit from the dead but Deobandees can appear in jungles, feed people, give them direction IN PERSON etc etc etc

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