i dont knw too much abt JJ so i cant really speak in his fav much but i dont see why people attacking him still. he said he has made tauba so leave it now. why go on about it? otherwise we can go into the past sins of anyone. even sahaba رضي الله عنه had their bad stuff from jaahilya days. i dont see why we are highlighting JJ, not like he is a scholar anyway who could have misguided anyone with his bad choice of words.
what concerns me is no one is talking about the brealiwis in general.. i warn you guys brealwis will come up to bite on the backside in the near future. they are just like shia. u cant trust them at all. if there founder was nothing more than a house muslim sellout what makes u think his followers will be any differnet? funny how a site which tends to have a lot of hazrat worshippers and people who go overboard with their love and affection for the akaabir are very quiet on a group who consider most if not all the akaabir as kaafir. strange. we should disassociate ourselfs with brealwis. now i know i ususally go on about unity but brealwis go out their way to disunite. ur either a brealwi or a wahhabi according to them and consider wahabbis worse than hindus. they even help islamphobes on TV and newspaper write anti muslim stuff saying its all wahhabis and deos. be warned. DO NOT TRUST BRALWIS
My blood boils when I see videos like this. This is precisely the reason, that I think that we can not be on the same page with barelvis (atleast in Pakistan). Amongst our akabireen, Maulana Sarfraz Safdar (RA), Maulana Murtaza Chandpuri (RA, khalifa of Hazrat Thanwi), Mufti Zar Wali Khan (DB), Allama Khalid Mehmood (DB) etc, have the same views, and have openly declared barelwi aqaaid as shirk.
No matter what you do, barelvis will ALWAYS hate deobandis and call them "gustakhe rasool". The amount of hatred, and the vulgar and disgusting language used by even senior barelwi ulema and mashaykh is absolutely disgusting.
There have many efforts by deobandi ulema to make barelwis closer, but to no avail.
Sunnah will never unite with Bidah. Tawheed will never unite with Shirk.
this is what i cant understand. some of the aqeedah of the barelvis are clear cut shirk and goes not just against the sunnah but also the quran. so why do our ulama flip flop when calling them out on their shirk? the role of the ulama is to explain and implement the deen. it is not their job to cover up and pick and choose from the deen. they may think that they are using hikmah, but allah is the wisest of all. just explain and implement the quran and sunnah the way it has come to us. allah will take care of the rest. all power and all might belongs to allah alone.
Ulamaa is a special title with many qualities and attributes associated with it. Many Ulamaa personally don't even consider themselves worthy of being amongst the true Ulamaa.
Having read in detail, the books of barelwis, I have seen two types. One are extremist, and have definite shirk in their aqaaid. The second one are dubious, and there is some "doubt" in calling them mushrik, however they have definite bidah in their actions. From the first category are Ahmad Raza Barelwi, Molvi Umer, Dawat e Islami, etc, and from the second category there are Ghulam Rasool Sayyidi, Peer Karam Shah, etc.
Now why don't ulema openly declare them kafir, there are two answers to that. Firstly, as per the books of fiqh, if there are 99 interpretations of kufr and 1 interpretation of islam in a person's aqeedah, then fatwa shall be given of him being a muslim. The barelwis have many shirk related aqaaid, but they do some taweel to it, and save themselves from kufr. According to some ulema, they may be muslim in this world but would be raised amongst the kuffar. Allah knows best. And the second answer is that, ulema have been striving for unity and don't want to make barelwis their open enemy, like the shia or qadayani.
However, both the groups of barelwis are equal when it comes to hatred of deobandis.
I am a graduate of Darul Uloom Karachi, and very close to Usmani family. I consider Hazrat Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) to be a mujtahid of today's times. This is one of the few issues, where I disagree with my asaatiza. I consider barelwis to be mushrik and bidati, and I think we can never align with them. The pathetic language used by them against our akaabir, and openly calling all of our akaabir kaafir .. it is just sick.
And all this debate is about barelvi (so called) ulema. The majority of the barelwi awaam are OK, however, they do have bidah in their actions.
Maulana Abu Bilal sahab,
As Masha'Allah you are an Alim e Deen,and have studied the Barelvi books, you came to the conclusion that the founders of Barelvi sect such as Ahmed Raza Khan etc were Mushrik.Even Mufti Zar Wali Khan sahib has mentioned that few of the Barelvi leaders including Ahmed Raza Khan were Kafir and out of fold of Islam.
However,what would you say about the ordinary Barelvi ulama,the aimmah of masajid etc?
Dear brother, whatever I have written is my personal opinion only and not a fatwa. As a mufti, I would still give the fatwa that barelwis are muslim and salah behind them is valid, but it is best to avoid praying behind them. As a mufti, one is bound by the principles of fiqh and giving fatwa. And unless there is something extremely clear and explicit, one should always avoid takfeer, since it is a very sensitive issue and deals with the emaan of a person.
But within my heart, my person opinion is whatever I have written above. Many other muftiyaan e kiraam have the same attitude too.
The issue of takfeer varies from person to person, and one can not paint the whole group with the same brush. The normal barelwi aimmah are no different. If they have studied at a barelwi madressah, and own the aqaaid of Ahmad Raza Barelwi, they are in the same boat. But I can not make takfeer of them unless shirk in their aqaaid is clear cut and beyond doubt. I personally never pray behind barelwis. If I am out in jamaat, and our tashkeel is in a barelwi masjid, then I'll repeat my prayers.
The above applies mostly to the Subcontinent. For UK and the west, you should consult your local ulema there.
mashAllah you put it perfectly and much better than i could. but i still dont see why deo scholars are using unity as a reason not to call the brealwis what they are? thats like me saying for sake of unity in uk lets call shia and qadiyanis muslims. i agree most brealwis are thich ignorant idiots but so are most shia so why make excuse for breawlis. u average shia on road wont know much about imams being masoom and quran being changed. at most they prob think Ali رضي الله عنه was wronged but that wont make them kaafir. we have to judge a group by their core beliefs and teachings which is in their books and leaders. they promote open shirk, calling saints for help, asking dead DIRECTLY for help, go on yanabi.com and see how filthy the mushriks are incase u think im exaggerating. they even spread crap like on night of miraj when rasoolullah رضي الله عنه reached sidratul muntaha and couldnt move up anymore the soul of hazrat abdul qadir jilani رضي الله عنه came along to give a boost up. if i have time il even find u text and video of their imams saying this stuff.
if we met shia who curses sahabah and did shirk out of ignorance or a qadiyani who thinks mirza the dog was a prophet but doesnt really know anything about him or confuses him with the prophert we wont make excuse for them will we?
brealwis have a deep rooted hatred for all non brealwis except for shia whom they love. they are always running to the media telling them how we are the good guys and go after salafis/deos/wahhabis .
I already wrote, that whenever I goto a barelvi masjid for tableegh, I don't pray behind them. So yes, we will give them dawah. The problem I see is, when many ulema start saying stuff like "oh barelwis are also sunnis, they are very close to us, they are just ignorant, we don't have any big differences with them" etc etc.
Any ordinary student who has gone through Fatawa e Rizvia or Hassam ul Haramain or Anba ul Mustafa would testify that there are atleast 4-5 MAJOR differences between barelwis and deobandis in aqeedah with Tawheed on the line, and atleast 10-12 MAJOR differences in their actions with clear Bidah involved. That's why I have always maintained that different ulema have different areas of expertise. Tableeghi ulema will explain tableegh better than non-tableeghi ulema, and similarly jihad and politics and so on. Similarly, refuting the batil sects is a major part of Deen, and such issues should be asked from the ulema who are experts in the field.
For barelwis, the expert was Maulana Sarfaraz Safdar (RA). For shia, the expert was Allama Ali Shayr Haidri (RA) and Mufti Abdus Sattar Tonswi (RA). For salafis/ghair muqalladeen, the expert was Maulana Ameen Safdar Okarvi (RA). For qadaynis, the expert was Mufti Yusuf Ludhianvi (RA).
The problem arises, when you goto a tableeghi aalim and ask him a aqeedah related question about shia.
Well I already told you that the issue is with barelwi elders. The common layman barelwi on the road is a muslim, and knows only meelaad and khatams, etc.
And barelwis ARE different to shia and qadayani. The former is an off shoot of Sunnis, and have same principles like us, with hanafi in fiqh and maturudi in aqeedah and agree with 4 salasil of tasawwuf. However, shia and qadyani are kafir because of their principles being based on kufr.
Assalaamu alyakum
I pray everyone is in the best of health aameen.
Slightly off topic somewhat but what about the shirk openly committed by Muslims who celebrate Easter and Xmas ......they are not ignorant to the reasons why these celebrations are held.....if we look at brewlvis there are quite a few different sects.....some hardcore grave worshippers and others who do major or minor bidat.
Allaah will judge everyone accordingly ....I pray we are raises amongst the mumin Aameen
there is a world of difference between what i am saying about brealwis,shia,qadiyanis and what that woman was saying about the mujaahideen, al qaeda and foriegn affairs dont see what connection you are trying to make. im talking specifically about uniting with a group who go out their way to cause disunity. there are only 2 groups in the UK i find scum and a hinderence to unity and muslims progressing they are the brealwis and the mad khalis. i dont mind other salafis and will happily sit and mingle with them but as for the former two they have a cult like mentality. apart from their own click everyone else is a kaafir/wahabbi,bidati and god knw what other names them two have for us. they will go on tv radio and newspaper as well as MPs lick their boots telling them we are your house muslims go after the others. alhamdulillah so far deos have sunk that low and sided with kuffar against fellow muslims.
i understand scholars dont want to make things worse and fair enough but done sleepwalk yourself into a mess u cant get out of. brealwis will be the new qulliam soon. if u do what they do you will be a good moderate muslim but if u oppose them you be a radical extremists etc etc. the non muslims already have a soft spot for the corrupto form of sufism which the brealwis have mastered. free mixing and dancing with quwali and music.
Yesterday a Barelvi Muhammad Shafiq Head of Ramadhan Foundation who appears on the Ummah Channel and also regularly appears on British News channel was threatened by other Barelvis at Birmingham's Ghamkol Sharif Masjid for condemning Mumtaz Qadri similar to the attack on Junaid Jamshed they then posted the Video on the internet .... t.co/4ojy15q9XU.
The Barelvis are divided amongst themselves into many sub-groups with plenty of infighting only time they are united when they feel threatened by "Wahabbis".
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
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we wont make excuse for them will we?
