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Barelvi fanatics attack Junaid Jamshed

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 12:07

Abu_Bilal wrote:
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Mufti Saheb,

I have had very detailed conversations with British Deobandi Ulama so I know a lot more about this issue than what I can write on this forum.

Jzk

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 12:23
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Yes, I remember having some conversation with you on email too, about this topic. Infact I came to knew recently that Junaid Jamshed has established islaahi ta`aluq with Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB).

Hazrat Mufti Sahab (DB) is extremely busy and doesn't take mureeds. But Junaid has managed it somehow. So he should be even more careful now. And I fully agree with you, that we have ALLOWED him to become an entertainer. Saeed Anwar is also a tableeghi, but you won't see him on media. He is a proper tableeghi and does everything with mashwara.

However, my posts here were for the beating that he got. That was terrible, the bidati barelwis beating him. Terrible.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 13:20
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I heard a lecture by him on his lengthy story in his own words some years ago, he did not fully commit until around about 2004 prior to that he kept yo'yoing there was several years were he kept getting tempted or sucked in to his previous lifestyle for financial reasons or otherwise, went through financial hardships offered a massive contract by Pepsi to take part in an advert shaved his beard. Then at the last minute changed his mind and did not do the advert, finally heavily in debt started a fashion label etc. Quite a compelling story there was no overnight change that took place. He would comeback home from performing at a concert there would be tablighis knocking on his door to take him to the Markaz this went on for years.

I am fairly ignorant myself...But from my understanding when an individual comes from the background theat JJ has he needs to make a complete break with his former lifestyle and cut of his former friends and associations there are no "ifs and buts", otherwise those friends and those relationships will slowly drag you back in. Secondly you need to spend some years away from the spotlight, the spotlight for a performer or athlete itself is very addictive , otherwise the yearning for it will quickly return...!

All of Junaid Jamsheds friends and former associations were people involved in the industry. So even after years he may still be tempted by celebrity and other aspects of his former life, surely his religious mentors and elders would have known that for this guy its going to be a lifelong challenge.

My perceptions is the Maulanas mentoring him, instead of looking at what would be best for Junaid Jamshed, focused on how JJ's celebrity could be utilized for Dawah.

Why was he encouraged to speak in matters that he is not qualified for? I heard a few of his lectures I think the only one I found compelling and inspiring is his personal story, there is no need for him to speak on anything except his personal story. His personal story is inspiring in enough for the youth.

Why was he encouraged at the embryonic stage of his journey to appear on TV for "Dawah purposes" I heard a lecture by Professor Mufti Muhammad Aslam Naqshbandi (DB) of Islamabad, a straight talker and senior Khulafah of Shaykh Zulfiqar Ahmed Naqshbandi (DB). He was against even Ulemah appearing on TV he said something along the lines of this bemari is such that soon as these Ulemah appear on TV they start Dying their Beards Black trying to look younger, then slowly they start trimming it real short, they themselves become ill whilst trying to treat others of illness...So if this is the case of Ulemah what can you expect from Junaid Jamshed.

Whats more Junaid Jamshed was encouraged to do Dawah to his former friends in the music and entertainment industries.... And every group of friends has at least one individual who is charismatic and has natural leadership qualities and ability to influence others. In Jamsheds case that friend is the musician Salman Ahmed a former band member of Vital Signs and also
the group "Junoon" he is also heavily involved in charity fundraising and a supporter of Imran Khans political party. Salman Ahmed from reading his stuff seems like some kind of liberal Perennialist Sufi who has been trying to tempt Jamshed back into the music industry for years...In dawah it is commonsense that if you try to do Dawah to your friends from your past jahilliyah background there is a danger that you may end up being influenced by the Dawah of these friends.

Then you have Elders themselves who are pushing the boundaries for the sake of Dawah when dealing with the educated classes and the famous as to not appear illiberal..I am sure you saw the picture of one elder who did that exact same thing, by attending an Eid Dinner at a famous ex-cricketers house, the Barelvis and Ahle Hadith had a field day with that. this elder also has videos of lectures at mixed gatherings from the Educated middle classes on youtube, so this American style of Dawah seems to have effected the Tabligh as well. I feel Mufti A.S. Desai has some valid objections in this regard.

I understand your point about the hypocrisy and dont think Zakir Naik is a comparative example considering he comes from a different background.

Probably the nearest example would be Brother Yusuf Islam (aka Cat Stevens) his return to the entertainment after nearly 40 years away from the music industry seemed to be even more shocking that to at the age of nearly 70. The reaction of Deobandis towards him is way different in comparison to JJ.

In Yusuf Islam he has had people encouraging him for decades to return to music for Dawah purposes and to help build bridges,that there is nothing wrong with it, one of his mentors the late Azhari Scholar Dr Zaki Badawi stating music was a food for the soul and fatwas against it were a misinterpretation. etc.

We are living in confusing times.... I just feel that Jamshed is being judged harshly by some who are failing to take his extinuating circumstances and background into account whilst others a blindly supporting him because he is "One Of Us".

On top this celebrity culture infecting Tabligh seems quite bizarre, and also the deliberate chasing after celebrities to do Dawah... Never been in Tabligh from what I have read Tabligh has always been about humility and shunning publicity. A Brother wrote on Sunniforum how the inspiring Indian Elder of Tabligh and a non-scholar the late Abid Khan (RA) was banned at one time from speaking in public for 6 years because he had become too famous, and they felt people were turning up to be entertained by the speeches of Abid Khan (RA) rather then for the sake of ALLAH..This aspect seems to have deserted tabligh in recent years.

After reading a thread on Sunniforum..I spoke to several Brothers in Tabligh some who have been involved in Tabligh for many many years, and mentioned the name of Colonel Amiruddin (RA), non of them had heard of him. The foundations of Tabligh and the special grace and favour Of ALLAH this movement has was built on the humility of individuals like Colonel Amirudin (RA), Abid Khan (RA) and many others who we most us of have never heard of.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 13:32

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Advice to Junaid Jamshed:

Perhaps you are beginning to actually believe Deobandi excuses put forth in your defense!

 من اهتدى فانما يهتدي لنفسه ومن ضل فانما يضل عليها ولا تزر وازرة وزر اخرى وما كنا معذبين حتى نبعث رسولا

[17:15] Whoever adopts the right path does so for his own benefit, and whoever goes astray does so to his own detriment, and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another, and it is not Our way to punish (anyone) unless We send a Messenger.

For Deobandees:

IF you can stand before Allah Ta'ala and answer that you have given as many excuses for Maulana Maududi (RA), Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) etc as you have for Junaid Jamshed you have nothing to worry about.

P.S: The circumstances of Yusuf Islam & Junaid Jamshed have no comparison whatsoever! Former is a Revert with limited access to original to Islamic material & Scholars while later does not.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 13:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I appreciate my post above was fairly long...I suggest you go back and read what I wrote without skimming through it. Then respond.

Seriously a Musician cannot be compared with a Musician?

But he can be compared with intellectual and academic giants like Syed Abu ala Mawdudi (Ra) and Dr Israr Ahmed (RA)? you mentioning JJ in the same paragraph as Syed Abu Ala Mawdudi (RA) and Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) is disservice to both.



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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 14:06
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You are comparing Fisq in amaal with fasaad in aqaaid o nazriyaat.

You are comparing two different things that can't be compared.

This is a show of poor analysis I would say. Please understand my point. No one denies what JJ is doing. But if a person says that JJ is sitting in mixed gathering but some XYZ Shiite never ever did that, so he is better. What would you say?

Fasaad in believes is far more worse than fisq. When this fasaad is found in a scholar, every one can understand the results.

If Modudi was doing pop music and mixed gathering, that would have reduced his following. So shatan didn't take that risk to call him towards that filth.
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 14:56

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How about the simple Husnud-Dhan against a Non-Deobandi that he simply disagreed with some of the views of Deobandi Ulama

WHILE

Junaid Jamshed is engaged in OPEN SIN

Allah Ta'ala has deprived you of the Tawfeeq to view things in a fair and unbiased manner which is the hallmark of Islam.

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 15:08
The whole point of Tabligh is/was to

Quote:
003.104
SHAKIR: And from among you there should be a party who invite to good and enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong, and these it is that shall be successful.


But today it is more about brushing it under the carpet rather than forbidding the wrong

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 15:28
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in my experience tabligh jamaat doesnt enjoin good and forbid evil. instead their modus operandi is to act as a reminder to the muslims and to teach the very basics. some could argue that they enjoin good albeit in a limited fashion. but in no way can it be claimed that they forbid evil. in fact in my tabligh days we were explicitly told not to forbid evil, but only to encourage good.

this ayat is more fitting for the religious police such as those in the taliban that actively went around enjoining good AND forbidding evil, and also the mujahideen (as per Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80 :
Narrated by Abu Huraira The Verse: "You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind." means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.)
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 15:32
muadh bhai, you are taking the discussion off on an unnecessary tangent by bringing up maududi saheb's name. why?
if you are unhappy with deobandis' opinion of him, then bump that earlier thread about maududi saheb instead of messing with this one.

anyways, i agree 100% with your comments about JJ's open sinning. but many of my paki friends don't want to hear them. they keep defending him even though he is no longer naive, jaahil, or young. he has probably spent much more time in the suhbah of great ulama and mashayikh then many of us have.
pakistanis get very emotional sometimes when defending personalities, even people amir liaquat.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:07

kanzoorbhai wrote:
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Are the Pakistanees defending him or the Deobandees defending him? Where is the opinion of Deobandi Ulama openly condemning him for indulging in Music and mixed-gathering? If you have some clear examples I will be happy to be enlightened.

The reason I am asking pointed questions is that in the eyes of People he is Tableeghi/Deobandi and if our Ulama disagree with him (which I know they do), it’s time to come clean openly.

The point I am making is that if Dr Zakir Naik did 10% of what JJ is doing, the guns of Fatwa would have started firing at full tilt by now, do you disagree with this assessment and on which grounds? Is this not the case with Deobandees that tehy pride themselves to be the first and foremost in highlighting Fitnah so what is the situation with JJ? Is he not indulging in clear sin?

He owes his CELEBRITY status to British and Canadian Muslims and openly admits it.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 16:50
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Then they will have to first question or condemn his Mentors..... Question is has he been taking all his decisions unilaterally or has he been taking his decisions after doing Mushwarah with his elders.

Did he decide that it was Okay to record Patriotic Songs unilaterally or with consultation with elders for the sake of Dawah. etc.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 17:16

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i've only spoken to pakistanis.

western deobandi ulama openly condemning him by name doesn't seem like a good move. most people don't really like "refuter" type scholars. also, deobandi ulama aren't so great at it anyways. how does the famous uk hazrat refute abu layth al-maliki on his facebook page?...he posts a fatwa about how abu layth doesn't wear sunnah libaas.

we made JJ famous but we also used him because he was famous. many of these "annual conferences" are competitions between masajid and they call JJ for the same reason they call Shaykh Sulaiman Moola, he's a celebrity speaker who brings in the crowd. But here in Canada, it's been some years since a masjid has hosted JJ.

but Ulama should make it clear he's his own man. A lot of people, including myself, seem to think he still under the tutelage Maulana Tariq Jameel and other Ulama. so they either refuse to condemn him or they extend their blame to these Ulama as well.

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 18:24
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You are comparing apples to oranges. JJ and Modudi are incommensurable.
I never backed JJ for his open sins. But I said that comparing him to Modudi and making the point that ulama aren't condemning and issuing fatawa regarding JJ when they have written books against modudi, is totally wrong. This isn't the duty of ulama to deliver fatawa against each and every zaid and bakr. Mududi was modudi that's why ulama spoke against him. Why should they treat a layman JJ likewise.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 30th March 2016 19:57

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JJ's Music Single from last year had 1.5 Million Hits within a few months from facebook. Millions watched Karachi Kings play in PSL sponsored by JJ.

How many in today's generations even know Maulana Maududi (RA)? Now compare the reach of JJ to Maulana Maududi (RA) and you will get your answer.

Jzk

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