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BBC Program: Deobandi Links with Extremism, Taliban etc.

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 11:52
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This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 12:09
mkdon101 wrote:
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Abu Hamza and his own defence Lawyers, openly admitted and provided proof in court for his work with British intelligence. Abu Qatada also is well known to have worked with British intelligence.

There were Rumours concerning both these characters along with Omar Bakri years before they got arrested, those of us who are old enough, remember when they first emerged on the scene out of now where and started getting a platform to air and make crazy statements, these individuals allowed themselves to be used to defame Islam and Muslims.

These are incontrovertible facts.

Only a matter of time before Anjem Choudhry is exposed....I suppose you feel he is great benefactor of Islam and muslims as well.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 13:12
WifaqulUlama wrote:
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With all due respect you will not receive a fair platform in the media that is rather naive. I would say far more important if you are going to put individuals forward to speak in the Media that you hire a consultancy firm that does media training to teach the tricks these organisations use to defame and slander.

The fact is if an organisation like the BBC invite you on to one of their programmes they are going to set the criteria they are going to set the agenda they will have predetermined objective of defaming Islam and Muslims, even the most experienced speakers will find themselves getting ambushed.

One of the tricks the BBC use is send out of one of their researchers or Producers, "We the BBC are concerned about the rise of Islamaphobia we feel it is important, that the main stream muslim community are given a voice we would like and hope you will accept our invitation, so that you can clarify the misconceptions that are common place." So our naive Muslim Organisations come forward thinking the programme is going to be fair and find themselves at the receiving end of a hatchet job, with a biased programme including professional Islamaphobes on it...It is quite baffling that our naive Muslim leaders and organisations fall for the same trick every time, when these researchers and producers approach you they will act as if they are the loveliest and nicest people in the world, dont be fooled. I remember the Birmingham Central Mosque falling for this trick not once but twice back in the early 2000's. Both documentaries were a hatchet job.

(1) Rather then appearing on the programme wait for the programme to be aired and then do a point by point refutation of the propaganda using social media, probably best option.

(2) If you appear then ensure and insist that you want one of your people to be present and allowed to record the interview as it takes place, better still insist on recording every little interaction from A to Z.

(3) Insist on having a contract with set criteria ground rules and guidelines concerning your appearance, if a BBC journalist is known to be a professional Islamaphobe, such as John Ware then insist that he not be involved on any level etc. If they are inviting other guests insist on knowing the names of these individuals
and what group they represent for example, (Henry Jackson Society, Quilliam foundation etc) This way you will be better prepared.

(4) Dont not let the argument that if we do not appear on the programme or refuse to take part, then dodgy people are going to be invited and get a platform, the fact is in such a scenario the biased nature of the programme sticks out like a sore thumb..The BBC will end up looking foolish they prefer one or two speakers or individuals that can be ambushed so that way they can present the allure of being neautral and impartial to the masses. Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks last year, the BBC did a Panorama programme
with John Ware, all the main stream muslims refused to appear on the show, the programme appeared so obviously biased that the BBC ended up looking rather silly.

The following is an extract of the response I received from BBC complaints at the time the bolded bits are the closest I have ever recieived from the BBC of an admission of bias.

BBC Complaints stated:

Thanks for contacting us regarding ‘After Paris: The Battle for British Islam’ broadcast on the 12 January.

Please be assured that we have raised your concerns with the team at Panorama, who have responded as follows:

“Our programme required a number of difficult decisions and judgements about both content and tone, and I fully accept that not everyone will agree with the position in which we ended up. What we tried to do, in the light of events in Paris, was to explore a debate within British Islam about whether non-violent views and teachings are capable of influencing violent extremism. With the exception of Peter Clarke who led the inquiry into the so-called ‘Trojan Horse’ allegations in Birmingham, and the former French Prime Minister Edith Cresson, everyone we interviewed was a Muslim living in Britain. Although a number of people who we hoped to interview declined to take part in the programme, our ambition was to reflect a conversation which we believe is already taking place rather than suggesting that a new conversation should begin.”

Regarding John Ware in particular, BBC journalists are well aware of our commitment to impartial reporting. They are expected to put their own political views to one side when carrying out their work for the BBC.....!

(5) It is better to maintain complete silence and completely shun the media rather then appearing or participating in a programme and looking foolish...With complete silence the media has nothing to respond to. Only option is to move onto other stories.


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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 13:23
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Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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have u heard gareth pearce ( abu hamza's solictor) or anyone else in his defence team say that? NO. you just heard what the media told u. stop picking and choosing. when its anti deo ur quick to go on defensive but when its non deos its fine cos the kuffar never ever ever ever lie do they now? i told you what he said, his defence said he was APPROACHED by mi5 on many occasions he never tried running or hiding from them and told them what is ROOT cause for all the 'extremism'. which is more than what deos what of done infact they would proabably bark the rubbish the govt does that islam needs reforming anyone who beleives in shariah, califate,jihad etc is an extremist.

secondly we have plenty of organisations and indivuals who mashAllah are very good on media platforms including live interviews such as moazzam begg, raza nadim, cerie, abdullah al andalusi, dilly hussain, yvonne ridly, lauren booth etc. as well as oraganisations like mend. unfortunately they dont get much funding and because most muslims suffer from hazrat syndrome they wont support them because they are not from a darul uloom or beards are too short or aint deos. its a fact.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 13:36
mkdon101 wrote:
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Shaykh Ali al Tamimmi is non Deo, Imam Jamil al Amin is non Deo, Babar Ahmed is non Deo...! When ever an indvidual has been unjustly incarecerated we have spoken up.

If you bothered reading the article posted Abu Hamzas American lawyer who defended him acknowledged that fact, and you will be able to find transcript of Abu Hamzas own evidence in court also.

So I suggest you do your research instead of throwing baseless tantrums.

Before an Anjem Choudhry we had the trio of Omar Bakri, Abu Qatadah and Abu Hamza, defaming the muslim community.

It is a well known fact that British intelligence along with the Americans was using Agent Provocateaurs to defame Islam and to radicalise. The British Media has historically laughed of these allegations as crackpot conspiracy theory's made by muslims who are unwilling to acknowledge that the problem is ISLAM...well when the western media rather begrudgingly are willing to acknowledge that the chain of responsibilty for radicalisation leads right back to their own Intelligence agencies you dont have much of an argument.



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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 19:36

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh

Letters received by numerous Deobandi institutes this week from the BBC News & Current Affairs department has stirred a great deal of interest and frenzy on social media. In light of these letters we would like to point out that the matter is being discussed amongst the ‘Ulama and responses to the BBC are being formulated.

Whilst we are unable to make the contents of these letters public at this time as they are under response, we would like to make a few observations and comments, to bring factual and accurate representation of Deobandi scholars and institutes, as well as to remind Muslims on how they should respond.

Although the letters don’t contain the details of the program, we think that the program is entitled ”The Deobandis” to be aired in 2 parts with the first part going live on Tuesday the 5th of April 2016 between 9.00am-9.45am. We encourage Muslims to tune in to both parts and to listen in.

BBC focus on British Deobandi, how should you respond?

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2016 16:24
Please stick to the current topic. Irrelevant posts, posts inciting a debate or disrespect towards another member will be removed without notice. Jazakumullah
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2016 10:17
WifaqulUlama wrote:
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Assalamu alaikum. Please can you message us with your contact details. We have received letters at our organisation yesterday with allegations concerning our senior alim. It would be helpful to coordinate with your response.

JK.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2016 10:42

IAM2016 wrote:
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W-Salam,

Will be more than happy to with the Taufeeq from Allah Ta'ala.  Wifaqul Uama is consulting solicitors in formulating our response. Check our website and contact us, I am now PM'ing you with a telephone number.

Jzk

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2016 23:03
In response to Media concerns regarding Late Shaykh Hakeem Muhammad Akhtar

We thank you for bringing this very serious matter to our attention.
However, our connection with the late Shaykh Hakeem Akhtar was purely of spiritual nature. He was a well known and highly regarded Sufi Shaykh, all his material is available online for you to research.
"Maulana Shah Hakeem Muhammad Akhtar is a Sufi scholar of the Ashrafia order based in Karachi. He has authored numerous books on Islamic spirituality including a popular commentary on the Mathnawi of Jalaluddin Rumi. Akhtar attracts a vast audience at his spiritual centre or khanqah for islah-e-nafs (self-correction) and online, where his talks are broadcast live daily." [The Muslim 500- The World's Most Influential Muslims].

themuslim500.com/profile/hazrat-maulana-shah-hakeem-muham...

We are not aware of any charity organisation he headed nor have we ever promoted any charity you allege he headed.

If you have evidence to the contrary please do inform us.
We also note from the UN website of individuals on proscribed list his name is not included:
www.un.org/sc/suborg/sites/www.un.org.sc.suborg/files/126...

We take matters of security very seriously and if you have any information please provide us with the details so that we may take appropriate actions. In the meanwhile we are also seeking advice from a law firm.

Thank You.

www.islamictarbiyah.com/single_announcement.php?announcem...
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2016 01:25
Rajab wrote:
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They are even labeling a Sufi someone as Mild and Peaceful as Hazrat Hakeem Akhtar Shah sahib (رحمة الله عليه) as an extremist.

Basically what the BBC have done is contacted every single Deobandi organisation, teaching establishment, institution and labelled it as Extremist, and tried to used the six degrees of seperation strategy of apportioning guilt by Association.

Then after fulfilling their pre-conceived agenda, they used another old school tactic of sending out letters to all these organisations so they can alibi themselves by saying we gave a right of response, "But the following organisations refused to appear on our show and refused to respond to the highly serious concerns that we raised."

I would love to go freestyle on the BBC but since the Wifaq Ulemah are requesting a mild gentle response, best to stay silent.

My response would be along the following lines.

(1) Is to write a point by point response on the allegations concerned.

(2) To question the BBC as to how they can claim to be impartial, when they have used "Assumptive and accusatory journalism" rather then "Investigative Journalism" with the assumptive journalism you set a pre-conceived agenda, predetermine an outcome and then you go about trying to manufacture and fabricate the evidence, to further your propaganda. Rather like a Police detective who instead of following the evidence to see were it leads instead accuses someone of committing the crime and then fabricates the evidence to back up his claims. This is highly unethical and against all the rules of Impartial journalism. Infact probably goes against the BBC's own producers guidelines.

(3) I would flip the accusations by the BBC and question them on the instituitionalised Islamaphobia that is pre-valent within this organisation, the consistent and shoddy journalism being used for decades with programme after programme being made with no other objective except to villify demonise and dehumanise ordinary muslims .

(4) Personally if it was me I'd place the main focus on number (3) reverse the same tactic the BBC has used in this instance, that is highlight the extraordinary number of Islamaphobic news programmes, documentaries etc, that they have produced over the years with the sole objective of promoting Islamaphobia and villifying muslims, and ask the BBC to explain their Blatant Extremism and hatred towards Muslims and Islam..I would tell them that my letter was not one of complaint rather that I am giving the BBC the right response before I publish My findings and go viral on the Islamaphobic extremism prevalent at the BBC. I would then send the letter to everyone and anyone at the BBC... To the Head of BBC news, the various producers at BBC News, The Head of BBC Newsnight, the news anchors at BBC , the various news correspondents national and international.... I would also send letters to the Head of BBC panorama, and its producers and correspondents. The BBC Radio 4, BBC Radio 5, BBC Asian network, infact all the BBC radio stations both national and regional. All the BBC regional TV news stations. The Head of BBC World service, The Director General of the BBC, The Board of Directors at the BBC, The BBC Trust etc etc and top things of the Producers of this programme and the correspondent Owen Bennet Jones....!Just to see how they respond when someone plays them at their own rules.

Realistically speaking commonsense dictates that the initial response should be non-confrontational like the Wifaq Ul Ulemah have stated and also in accordance with legal advice.

I am surprised that the correspondent, in this case is Owen Bennet Jones, from what I recall he was BBC senior Pakistan correspondent for a number of years, he is probably one of only a few BBC journalists who is mildly sympathetic towards muslims and the only one sympathetic towards Pakistan. He still has friends
within Pakistan albeit mainly of the Secular liberal variety.

Surprising how much work has been put into this programme, usually organisation like the BBC makes
a few dubious accusations against one or two institutions...The fact from the sounds of it they have sent accusatory letters to virtually every institution in the country is fairly unprecedented.

It is interesting that one of the producers is called Sajid Iqbal.... My personal feelings are that this programme has (A) Been made at the request of the government who will then use it as an excuse to bring in more draconian measures targeting Muslims once this programme airs more then likely all the Newspapers and tabloids will follow suit in joining the propaganda
(B) most definitely the Quilliam foundation has been at the forefront, they have been lobbying the government for a while to justify their avenues of funding and their existence, they keep writing reports and making baseless accusations against mainstream organisations and individuals.


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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2016 11:11
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Mashallah I like what you have said. About Qullliam those parasites seem to have a hand in many anti-islamic plots. I think it is time we put pressure on shoaib hasan the father of usama hasan. Also some of these guys respect Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and some of the sufi lot. These sufis and Shaykh Hamza Yusuf in particular need to take a stance against Qulliam. We should also pressurise abu layth the so-called mufti as he has some very close links to Qulliuiam but has hidden this publically. So instead of trying to persuade Qulliam we should try to persuade those who have links to Qulliam indirectly and who could possibly influence or pressurise Qulliam founders.

The problem is that most of the above influencers have little backbone except shaykh hamza yusuf who to be fair has a lot of courage though I think his association with bin bayyah etc has made him a pawn for certain governments. The best way seems to pressurise them and get as many people to bombard them to do something about Qulliam. As far as I remeber Ed (Edward?) Hussain even mentioned the likes of hamza yusuf in his book. Shaykh Hamza should publically rebuke him. Also it seems like Qulliam is moving more to the North America scene as the money is to made there.

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2016 13:07
london786 wrote:
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I dont think anyone is going to be able pressure Maajid Nawaz and the Quilliam Foundation these guys are about the Dollars... Maajid Nawaz has disowned almost his entire family for questioning him read the fascinating expose of Nawaz here were his family members and former friends were interviewed by Dr Nafeez ahmed in a great investigative piece here..

www.google.co.uk/urlsa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&...

With all due respect the strategy you have outlined seems rather naive the guys at the Quilliam Foundation are way ahead of you. These guys when they first came on the seen were quoting the names of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and others simply as a Piggyback Marketing tactic a method were one tries to attach themselves to the name of someone who is famous to help increase their own profile , and at the same time try to make themselves sound more mainstream.

They no longer need to do Piggy Back Marketing the Quilliam Foundation is an established brand.. If Shaykh Hamza Yusuf or anyone else speaks out Maajid Nawaz turn on them quicker then he turned on his own family, and label them as extremists.

As for Imam Suhaib Hassan the Ahle Hadith in U.K. have been periodically using their leading Scholar based in Makkah Shaykh Wasiullah Abbas who has very large influence, to make statements against various personalities, I think someone needs to ask his Views on Imam Suhaib Hassan and his complete silence on his sons enemity towards Islam....Here is an interesting article about the Imam Suhaib Hassan and his previous fatwas on what causes a person to be declared a Murtad Ironically they would fully apply to his own son Usamah Hasan...

Here read this fascinating article
www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3...

The real issue here is our leadership are not very media savvy have no media training...The people you find who are good in the Media and good at countering the Media all seem to come from Hizb Ut Tahrir..I think that is probably the one valuable thing this group offers it trains its members in how to intellectually counter and challenge the propaganda against Islam. On The flip side the Validators of Islamaphobia Maajid Nawaz and Ed Hussain also come from a Hizb Ut Tahrir background..Maajid Nawaz to give the devil his due is very charismatic and he puts his propaganda across very well.

The Deobandis dont seem to have anyone and from what I can tell no attention is paid at all to Media training that should be the first step set up an institution to train our leadership in how to deal with Media and knowledge of various methods of trickery and deceit the media use, there is an entire behavioral science and psychology behind it.

All of them are consulting Solicitors on how to deal with this particular programme which is fine but Solicitors can only tell you what legal avenues are available Media and PR are specialised areas...How many of them have contacted those experienced with the Media guys like Dilly Hussain and Abdullah Andalusi should be consulted, before formulating a response.


The ancient Chinese General Sun Tzu wrote centuries ago.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you are a fool you will succumb in every battle.”
– Sun Tzu

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2016 23:23
i heard there is an islamic organisation in Cambridge that train people at how to deal with media. is anyone aware of this? it seems like a good point to start. also althought its true scholars aint really media savvy we do have good personalities who can deal with media as iv mentioned in other posts. shouldnt we just work with them and support them? people from mpacuk,mend and cage do very well. perhaps if someone can help bring some sort of link between them and mainstream ulema it would be a great start
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2016 21:31
Quote:
One Islamic movement runs over 40 percent of UK mosques and a network of seminaries. The Deobandis are virtually unknown to most British people yet their influence is huge. This programme explores who they are and what they believe.

Founded in 19th century India, the Deobandi movement is large and diverse - from the quietest and strictly non-violent missionary group, the Tablighi Jamaat, to the armed sectarian and jihadist groups of Pakistan. The BBC's former Pakistan correspondent, Owen Bennett-Jones, investigates which strands of Deobandi opinion have influence here in the UK.

Presenter/Owen Bennett-Jones, Producers/Richard Fenton-Smith and Sajid Iqbal for the BBC

BBC Radio 4 Publicity

Ep 1/2

Tuesday 5 April
9.00am-9.45am
BBC RADIO 4

www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2016/14/the-deobandis


looks it'll be on radio 4 in 11 days time.
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