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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 18:18

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salÄmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullÄhi wa-barakÄtuh

This program is meant to be aired in the first week of April, as it has now become common knowledge that BBC has contacted many Deobandi Ulama, Institutions and given them the chance to appear on the program. It is unfortunate that the contents of some of these letters have been leaked to the wider Muslim community and speculation is rife amongst British Muslims.

The first part of response from Deobandi Ulama is addressing our fellow Muslims and this should be made public tonight, Insha'Allah.

The later parts of the response is being consulted and formulated behind the scenes and we will make it public as directed by the respected Ulama and legal experts.

Jzk

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 19:08

I think its time to go on the offensive, this defensive posture is not working in the face of the media. As far as this programme a youtube video with a point by point refutation of the allegations along with a counter offensive against the BBC concerning there institutionalised Islamaphobia exposing all their previous programmes going back 20 years were they have consistently shown there policy of hatred and vilification of Muslims.

I had a very lengthy correspondence going back and forth over several months approximateley 18 years ago, with the then Head of BBC News department TONY HALL his p/a who kept referring to himself as Special Assitant Simon Smith, was correspondening on his behalf. This guy TONY HALL a generation later has been promoted to the position of DIRECTOR GENERAL of the BBC. Need less to say Special Assistant Smith had very little to offer except just ludicrous denials " It simply not true BBC does not have a Policy Of Islamaphobia", " We The BBC are Impartial" "The BBC does not have a anti-Islam agenda".

I told him his denials were akin to somebody sitting in a rain storm and denying its raining, the BBCs programming bore witness to its hatred and bigotry towards Muslims, and that it was not sufficient to chant over and over "we BBC impartial" like a religious mantra, whilst the programming itself disproved that statement, and proved the BBC were Liars and bigots, and the organisation itself exposed itself as fanatically extremist organisation. It and its correspondents were incontrovertibly purveyors of Journalist Terrorism.

Its time we take these incendiary words "extremism" "Fanatcism" Terrorism" and throw then right back at TONY HALL and the BBC.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 19:14

salaam

what are they saying in the program? what are the accusations?

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 20:16

staying silent wont work. need to take the legal route against BBC and make full use of the social media

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 20:46

everyone is talking as if they already know the content of the program. can some one fill me in?

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 20:51

The program WILL AIR in April, hasn't been shown yet...

Posted via the Muftisays Android App

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 21:22

xs11ax wrote:

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Given the past record of the BBC in particular and British mMedia in general its not Rocket science is it? will be something along the lines, Deobandis are extremist, Terrorist, Ultra conservative, against integration, against British Liberal Values etc.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 21:24

Here is a refutation of what has already been reported in the press so far. Going by the article below the ones leading the charge behind the scene and no surprises here have been the Quilliam Foundation Dr Usama Hassan in particular a thousands curses upon him.

The slander of â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™

Suspicion is forbidden in Islam, however the irony is that under the governmentâ€™s Prevent, counter terrorism strategy, all Muslims are themselves under suspicion. Not even little four year old children at nursery are exempt, as demonstrated by the recent 'cooker bomb' incident, which was deemed as a sign of obvious radicalisation.
(www.bbc.co.uk/nâ€¦/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-35783659).
It beggars belief that nursery nurses can even qualify as a nursery nurse if they honestly believe that a four year old can develop this type of complex thinking and reasoning, in between doses of Teletubbies and Peppa Pig.
However, even more worrying have been the recent national press articles regarding the soon to be released independent review of prisons being carried out by Ian Acheson. Two articles in the The Sunday Times, have particularly caught the eye and really sail close to the wind in being outright blatant sectarian propaganda. The articles are
'Most jail imams teach anti-western values' (67/2/16)
(www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/â€¦/â€¦/Crime/article1675486.ece)
'Jails advisor may lose job over hiring hardline imams' (6/03/16)
(www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/â€¦/Natioâ€¦/article1665618.eceâ€¦)
The articles make a number of claims:
Firstly that the Muslim Advisor for prisons, Ahtsham Ali, was personally responsible for the recruitment of the 'hardline' Deobandi chaplains who make up nearly 70% of Muslim chaplains. Secondly, and the most damaging of accusations, is the slanderous accusation that chaplains from a â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™ background are propagating "anti-British values" and that they are potentially a hindrance to the "deradicalisation of Islamists in prisons".
The first point to clarify, prior to further analysis of the articles, is the term â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™. The term is a relatively new term and does not signify the emergence of a different Islam, despite its divisive use by some. It is a term attributed to the Islamic revival for the preservation and dissemination of religious heritage which emanated from a small town in India by the name of Deoband.
The fundamental purpose of these two articles in the Sunday Times is the slander of â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™. As Yahya Birt has pointed out in his blog dated 8th February 2016, Ahtsham Ali is being set up as the fall guy. However, as the right wing press and organisations such as The Quilliam Foundation know all too well, if Ali falls then so will the Deobandi chaplains and as a consequence â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™. Hence, the defence of Ali is critical in this game of falling dominos.
The defence of Ahtsham Ali is actually very simple. As those who are familiar with the recruitment process within the Civil Service will testify, one individual cannot be held responsible for the recruitment of all prison chaplain in the UK. Appointments are made through applications which are based on competencies, and all interviews would be carried out by a panel of interviewers who score on the basis of an agreed set of criteria. Hence, any influence in this recruitment process would have meant that Ali would have had to have influenced at least 200 interview panels consisting of up to 600 individuals - all of which is highly improbable. Secondly, and far more importantly, 70% of prison chaplains are 'Deobandi'. This is hardly surprising when 16 of the 25 (64%) darul ulooms (seminaries) in the UK are of a Deobandi persuasion. (Birt, J. and Lewis, P. 2012. The Pattern of Islamic Reform in Britain: The Deobandis Between Intra-Muslim Sectarianism and Engagement with Wider Society). Hence, far from the numbers of Deobandi chaplains being an Islamist takeover, it is clearly just a reflection of statistical prevalence. All said and done - it will not take any independent review to recognise that there is no case to be made against Ahtsham Ali.
So what is all the real fuss about?
The real deal, is all about â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™. Dr Usama Hasan (Quilliam Foundation) said that "The Deobandi movement is generally anti-western and anti-integration in its spirit." These sentiments have been held by Quilliam for some time now (see Unlocking Al-Quaeda, 2009) and have been regurgitated at each and every opportunity. Dr Usama Hasan's slander of â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™ is a bit rich, coming from an individual who is not a averse to hurling insults, such as "ignorant extremist" at Muslims who hold mainstream views even on national television. (youtu.be/F0SmOgEsXUk - time 16:00)
It is staggering that claims of being anti-British are being made at â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™. There is clearly no evidence to justify this. In fact, just some cursory analysis would show that a recent unannounced inspection of the oldest seminary in the the UK, Darul Uloom al-Arabiya al-Islamiya, Holcombe, demonstrated that it is clearly promoting British values.
(m.burytimes.co.uk/â€¦/14313912.Bury_independent_schooâ€¦/)

Additionally, an Ofsted inspection of Jamiatul-ilm Wal Huda, Blackburn, in August 2015, stated "The inspectors witnessed one of the unitâ€™s regular visits to the school where officers gave a presentation to younger students about stereotyping. Officers also work with students and staff on e-safety issues, covering not just extremism and radicalisation but also cyber-bullying, internet grooming and sexual exploitation. This close cooperation is invaluable in keeping boarders safe as well as strengthening their engagement in British society."
(reports.ofsted.gov.uk/â€¦/find-â€¦/provider/CARE/SC005870)
â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™ is the dominant type of Islam in the UK. The majority of seminaries in the UK are of Deobandi persuasion and as such many mosques are also the same. Its origins date back to 1867 in a town called Deoband, 90 miles from the former Mughal capital of Delhi. Its inception coincided with India's colonial resistance against British rule. Deobandi scholars participated in this struggle, however, this is just a historical fact and consequence of colonial rule. The 'Indian' struggle was demonstrated by the fact that Muslims fought alongside Hindus against the British. This historical fact is now stated at every opportunity by the right wing press, with the obvious deceptive desire to demonstrate that â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™ is somehow innately anti-British. Interestingly, the same anti-British slur is never applied similarly to Hindus.
Scholars at Deoband have taken a hard line in regards terrorism. In 2008, Darul Uloom Deoband hosted a conference of Islamic scholars to debate the issue of terrorism. The conference resulted in a united fatwa (religious edict) condemning all acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. The declaration stated that Islam has taught its followers to treat all mankind with equality, tolerance and justice.
This anti-Muslim rhetoric seems to have taken an unusual turn, with recent press articles setting its target on a strategy of divide and rule - with its sights set clearly on â€˜Deobandi Islamâ€™. These slanderous comments are clearly not based on any facts, research or credible evidence. Such allegations need to be categorically refuted and dismissed publicly. More importantly, the Muslim community needs to stay united and show that attempts to divide us will always fail.
Mukhtar Master

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 22:10

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

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Yes this was posted on Islam21c:

The slander of ‘Deobandi IslÄm’

Piece by Mukhtar Master

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 22:35

apparently it will be about how the madrasah system is out dated and how its students come out without the necessary skills and mindset leaving them out of touch with british life; this part i must say is kinda truth. iv been saying for ages the whole system needs modernising ( not the islamic teachings) but the way its taught and language.

as for the attack on deoband i can only say shame on us, and i mean ALL of us. scholars non scholars tabeelighs the whole lot of us. we deserve to be the whipping boys. we were soo pathetic and selfish when the media came after the salafis n feeling all smug with outselfs now the chickens have come home to roost. i respect likes of islam21c and shaykh haitham who are one of the few scholars and organisations who defend all muslims and not so narrow minded who cant see the bigger picture.

brother in earlier post mentioned about going on offensive, with all due respect but why now? is it because its our turn? we should of done it from the beginning. when they came for salafis,jihadis, abu qatadah (HA) abu hamza (ha) . it was obvious we will be soon. its the oldest trick in the book, divide and conqure. i really do urge all the people reading this to listen to imam anwar al awalki (shaheed) lecture called 'story of the bull' it sums up our pitful state.

well look on the brightside at least some deobandis have now woken up and hopefully we can now work together with others and fight back against the media and govt narrative

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 22:54

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With all due respect Many Deobandis spoke out when others in the Muslim Community have been targeted especially when the notorious documentary undercover mosque was released a decade or so ago,
The Deobandis have themselves as a group previously targeted most notably in 2007.

I along with others was corresponding with the Media, a generation ago probably before you even were old enough to know what the word "Media" even meant.

The reason "Why Now?" is important is because we have the platform of social media which is at its Zenith, we are in a position to counter the BBC and other media organisations and counter them hard the platform of social media was not available to us in previous decades the usual response by the BBC was to send a pompous arrogant response denying they were biased. Besides that I have previously highlighted the need for muslims to use Social Media to counter the Media here along with others such as the poster BHAI1, so our reaction is not based solely on this programme targetting Deobandis.

As for the Likes of Abu Hamza he has openly admitted his contacts and for working with British Intelligence as well as other Agent Provocateurs such as Omar Bakri Muhammad and Abu Qatada, so they have only themselves to blame. You should choose your examples wisely .

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 23:26

mkdon101 wrote:

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Abu Hamza worked for British Intelligence wrote:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10814...

Abu Hamza, the radical Islamic preacher notorious for his hate-filled sermons, was in reality working secretly with British intelligence "to keep the streets of London safe" by "cooling hotheads", his lawyer claimed in a US court.

Holding up what he said were reports from Scotland Yard, Joshua Dratel described the cleric as an "intermediary" who cooperated with MI5 and the police to try to end foreign hostage-takings and defuse tensions with the Muslim community in Britain.

[/quote]

Bakri worked for British Intelligence wrote:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-nafeez-mosaddeq-ahmed/mi5-ter...

But around the same time, the Wall Street Journal's Pulitizer Prize winning journalist Ron Suskind was told by an MI5 official that the cleric "had helped MI5 on several of its investigations." Bakri confirmed the same in an interview with Suskind years later from Tripoli, Lebanon, where he now resides. As Suskind wrote in his book, The Way of the World:

"Bakri enjoyed his notoriety and was willing to pay for it with information he passed to the police... It's a fabric of subtle interlocking needs: the [British authorities] need be in a backchannel conversation with someone working the steam valve of Muslim anger; Bakri needs health insurance."

Bakri maintains regular contact with his British followers from Lebanon. Why would MI5 and MI6 retain the services of someone so dangerous given the overwhelming evidence of his centrality to violent radicalisation? Is MI5, through Al Muhajiroun, hatching many of the plots it lays claim to successfully foiling - as the FBI has been doing in the US?

It is the ISC's job to find out whether this strategy has repeatedly backfired - the committee must ask MI5 probing questions not simply about pre-Woolwich intelligence "defects", but about the security service's longstanding relationship with the extremist network incubating terror on UK soil.

[quote=Abu Qatada worked for British Intelligence]

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/article1969239.ece

Allies say warnings were ignored

ONE of al-Qaeda’s most dangerous figures has been revealed as a double agent working for MI5, raising criticism from European governments, which repeatedly called for his arrest.

Britain ignored warnings — which began before the September 11 attacks — from half a dozen friendly governments about Abu Qatada’s links with terrorist groups and refused to arrest him. Intelligence chiefs hid from European allies their intention to use the cleric as a key informer against Islamic militants in Britain.

Abu Qatada boasted to MI5 that he could prevent terrorist attacks and offered to expose dangerous extremists, while all along he was setting up a haven for his terror organisation in Britain.

Among the scores of young militants who came to visit him in London was the chief suspect in the Madrid train bombings. His followers also included people who wanted to be suicide bombers for al-Qaeda, such as Richard Reid, the shoe bomber.

A special tribunal that has investigated his operations in Britain described him as a truly dangerous individual. A ruling by the Special Immigrations Appeals Commission revealed yesterday that there was evidence to show that Abu Qatada has been concerned in the instigation of acts of international terrorism.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2016 23:36

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Just to round things Of Abu Qatada .... www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7...

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 05:16

(1) It is unlikely that BBC will raise muck or even dust against Deoband today when the west, some how or other, has successfully decimated the Islamic State and made their own creation Al-Qaida irrelevant. West is quite well aware of Deoband and its stand on terrorism. UK has its own share of Tony Blairs but from a distance my own impression is that the overall British foreign foreign profile is less strident then the posture of the neo-con segment in the US.

Of course one could always be wrong.

(2) Nevertheless if Deoband finds an explicit mention in the media narrative then we do not remain passive by-standers anymore.

(3) We know you can be a Deobandi in three ways: One by being born in Deoband, Two by studying at the Darul Uloom there or similar seminaries the world over and finally by adopting their interpretation of Islam. My impression is that most of us here are in the third category. I, for one, belong to this category only.

(4) I am happy to be that without any regrets at all.

(5) Sooner or later we should have expected that the western authorities will look us in the eyes. After all we are Muslims and right from day one Christianity was not OK with Islam. This issue is there in the Noble Qur'an.

(6) The west did leave Christianity behind to a large extent but not completely. Yet they never left their old active, assertive, non-accepting attitude towards Islam and Muslims completely.

(7) This non-accommodating attitude towards Islam and Muslims can be summarised in the phrase and the statement that the west does not accept Islamic values as legitimate. ( To be continued.)

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2016 11:19

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salÄmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullÄhi wa-barakÄtuh Brothers,

British Deobandis play a very positive role in our country and run a large number of Mosques, seminaries and institutions. We are also well integrated into British civil society. We believe that we should be well represented in the media and our voice should be heard. However, we don’t believe that this is a gang fight and our points should be articulated with nuance and subtlety. The purpose of this thread is to provide a background to the laymen and keep them updated with an evolving situation.

The response to the BBC will after consultation with Scholars and legal experts.

We will then follow it up with more efforts to highlight the rich tapestry and mosaic of British “Deobandi” tradition.

Please stay tuned, no pun intended :P

Ø¬Ø²Ø§Ùƒ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡Ù Ø®ÙŠØ±Ù‹Ø§

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