Split: on Paris Attacks hypocrisy etc

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 14:00

xs11ax wrote:

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Who are the perpetrators, according to your reports brother?

if it is IS, isn't TTP their ally?
When there was a genocide in Peshawar, there was a fake hadith that these terrorists were displaying to justify their action.

Can you please also show this hadith you refer to?

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 15:08

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but the hadith seems to condone the genocide of all non muslims to the point that not a single one will remain on earth.

This doesn't mean that they will be mass murdered. They can die as a result of famine, earthquakes, diseases, or even reverting to Islam. Those who are truthful to their faith will be guided by Allah and those who are not can die by other means.

If the Hadith doesn't state mass genocide, then this is a twisted analogy.

War will breakout, and many will die, but one can't say that is mass genocide.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also to the other brothers, if the Muslim community are going to be tainted with the same picture as these terrorists, then we must speak up and defend the truth and show what Islam really is. When these people butcher Muslims, we do what is necessary, but that doesn't mean killing of innocent people. Just because these people do evil, doesn't mean we have to also answer with evil. Condemnation is for all those who are doing wrong.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 17:01

by coming out every time condemning these despicable acts we are playing into the hands of islamaphobos and anti muslim rhetoric. surely the best way for muslims and islam to distance itself from vile acts like this is to say and do nothing especially to the media. i don't see white people or non muslims racing to condemn anything which is done by other whites and non muslims.

by giving the media the silence treatment the masses would know muslims won't apologies cos they shouldn't have to. if we keep apologising they will keep expecting it and will eventually say stuff your apologies you keep doing it. its a very dirty game this politics and media

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 17:33

mkdon101 wrote:

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i don't see white people or non muslims racing to condemn anything which is done by other whites and non muslims

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 17:44

mkdon101 wrote:

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 18:16

The Fact is ISIS and its cult of Hollywood Jihadis was created by the CIA, everything was provided from training to how use Social Media more effectively to recruit...Problem is now they cant control them.

Here is decorated American General Wesley Clarke on why and how ISIS was created.... youtu.be/ojcoKnTGf4s

So as Muslims we should condemn this ISIS but we Should also be vocal in condemning the Baron Frankensteins in the CIA for creating ISIS.

When you throw this fact back in their face they have no response. They cant even hide behind the excuse that this is a conspiracy theory the evidence that CIA is behind the origins of ISIS is overwhelming.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 21:02

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by giving the media the silence treatment the masses would know muslims won't apologies cos they shouldn't have to.

I understand your point, and so do majority of non Muslims. I hear it on the radio all the time. Even the radio presenters are saying that they don't understand why Muslims should apologies for these maniac Muslims. Just like how the Christians don't apologies for the crimes the Christians commit.

But, if the Muslims remain silent then it backfires on them to say that they support it, hence the silence.

We don't have to be apologists, but we need to make it very clear to the illiterate public that Islam is not what they are seeing in the news.

Silence is golden, but only at the right time.

We are one BODY and if one part of the body is aching, EVERY Muslim should feel the pain.

Similarly a bunch of hypocritical, mislead, uneducated Muslim makes a mistake, we should be the first to condemn it and distant ourselves from it, since we are supposed to be one!

Apologising or condemning every time doesn't make us small, it unites us as whole. So many Muslimsh ave returned to the truth simply because true Muslims have spoken out and diminished the media propaganda.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 22:17

apologising just makes things worse for muslims. its a lose lose situation. we apologise and they can turn around say nah we don't accept your apology or your not doing enough. also it gives them more ammunition to link it to islam. by remaining silent they will feel stupid asking such questions. crime and criminals has no religion or race. we should treat these kind of attacks like any other crime. if you do condemn it do it cos u want to not cos u feel pressured or obliged to. we not some kind of sick twisted people who default position is yh we like this kind of atrocities.

finally lets face it media don't care how many say so. it don't sell them papers. you could get grand mufti of every country and every darul ul uloom to come out and condemn most you will get is a small section on page 15 of newspapers. i been listening to lbc radio today its scary how many muslims have inferiority complex and feel like they have to say sorry. even then the non muslims ring back and say nah we don't accept they have to do more.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 14th November 2015 22:54

I have to agree apologising in media terms and from a Psychological perspective is seen as an admission of guilt thats why the Media deliberately uses this as a tool "Muslims need to aplogise".Because that is the perception the media wants to create that muslims are collectively responsible.

We should condemn offer condolences to the victims but not apologise as if some how we are complicit in these attrocities. Rather we should ask the Media to apologise for suppressing the truth about how organisations like ISIS were created by their own intelligence agencies.

Whatsmore we seem to completley lack any media savvy at all and a total inability to offer a counter narrative, if it was the Jewish community in the Firing line, the video of General Wesley Clarke admitting that ISIS was created by the United States would have gone viral...So anyone who has one of these Twitter accounts please share the video and ask others to forward it youtu.be/ojcoKnTGf4s , we need a counter offensive.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2015 00:41

www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/10510-some-though...

Please read

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2015 00:53

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Who are the perpetrators, according to your reports brother?

not my reports, but reports from the media. the perpetrators are isis. isis have even released a statement to that effect.

if it is IS, isn't TTP their ally?

i have no idea and dont understand how this is relevant to this thread.

When there was a genocide in Peshawar, there was a fake hadith that these terrorists were displaying to justify their action.

which hadith?

Can you please also show this hadith you refer to?

deobandi source

http://www.inter-islam.org/Biographies/Hazisa135.html

"By He in whose hands my soul rests, Jesus, the Son of Mary, is to descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pig, abolish Jizya and wealth will increase to such an extent that one prostration will be more valuable than the whole world and all that it contains."

"By Him in Whoâ€™s hands my soul rests, surely Jesus, Son of Maryam (Mary) will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind judiciously, by the law of the Quran, as an honest ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pig and abolish jizya. Money will abound in such excess that no one will wish to accept it. A single prostration to Allah, in prayer, will be better than the whole world and all it contains." Abu Hurayrah, the narrator, added, "If you wish, you can recite this verse from the holy Quran :" "And there is none of the people of the book, but must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an apostle of Allah and a human being), before his death, and on the Day of Judgement, he will be a witness against them." Quran 4/159

This Hadith expounds upon the justice of Jesus after his descent. Imam Nawawi(d.676/1254) has explained his ruling to be according to the laws of Islam and the teachings of prophet Muhammadpeace and blessings be upon him. He will abolish Jizya, as it is a kind of payment given by the non-Muslims in lieu of safety and security. Hafiz Ibn Hajar (d.852/1430)has explained the reason behind this as follows: only Islam will be the acceptable religion at the time and thus those who do not profess the faith will not have the option of paying Jizya.

This Hadith has also mentioned that Hazrat I`saâ€™s most important mission after descending on the earth, will be the reformation of his people who shall consist of his antagonists, the Jews and his protagonists, the Christians.

Maulana Sheikh Yusuf Ludhyanwi has stated that in those days, Dajjal will be the leader of all the Jews. Hazrat I`sa peace and blessings be upon him will first put him to death and then make an end to the Jews. Then he will turn towards the Christians and correct them of their misguided notions which stemmed from the beliefs of trinity, crucifixion and expiation. His descent in daylight, before all eyes, this very spectacle, will dispel the deification dogma. A human among humans, his physique will refute the dogmas of trinity, divinity, the cross and atonement. With a living Masih (alayhis sallam) around and spurious beliefs negated, the Christians shall pray to Allah for forgiveness. Naturally, they will all embrace Islam and destroy all the â€˜crossesâ€™.

salafi source

http://islamqa.info/en/43148

Al-Bukhaari (2222) and Muslim (155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: â€œBy the One in Whose hand is my soul, soon the son of Maryam will descend among you [according to another report: the Hour will not begin until the son of Maryam descends among you] as a just judge. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the jizyah, and money will become abundant until no one will accept it.â€

â€œSoonâ€ means it will inevitably happen quickly.

â€œwill descend among youâ€ means among this ummah.

â€œA just judgeâ€ means that he will come down and rule according to this shareeâ€™ah (divine law), and that this shareeâ€™ah will remain and not be abrogated, rather â€˜Eesa will be one of the rulers of this ummah.

â€œHe will break the cross and kill the pigsâ€ means he will declare as false the religion of the Christians by breaking the cross in a real sense and proving false the Christiansâ€™ claims and veneration of the cross.

â€œand he will abolish the jizyahâ€:

al-Nawawi said:

The correct view concerning this is that he will not accept it, and he will not accept anything from the kaafirs disbelievers but Islam. If any of them offer the jizyah that will not make him stop fighting them. Rather he will not accept anything but Islam or death. This is the view of Imam Abu Sulaymaan al-Khattaabi and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them).

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2015 00:56

abu mohammed wrote:

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please check post 19.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2015 01:07

so basically the majority of the christians will join isa (as) and as a result will join islam.

the jews will be entirely slaughtered and wiped off the earth. i.e genocide.

what of the atheists and those who follow a non abrahamic religion such as the hindus/sikhs/buddhists/etc? jizya will not be accepted from them so its either accept islam or die. again, genocide.

Al-Bukhaari (2222) and Muslim (155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: â€œBy the One in Whose hand is my soul, soon the son of Maryam will descend among you [according to another report: the Hour will not begin until the son of Maryam descends among you] as a just judge. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the jizyah, and money will become abundant until no one will accept it.â€

i would have interpreted that to mean that jizya will no longer be required as there will be so much wealth that there would not be any need for it. but the scholars seem to think otherwise.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2015 01:52

Asalamu alaikum I don't see why there is a big fuss being made on social regarding those who are condemning the attacks. Actually most of the posts I saw condemning the attacks were from ulama from various backgrounds, while those ctritisizing the condemnations were people I have never heard of. I would think that condemning such attacks would

1) be considered enjoining good and forbidden evil

2) be a means of dawah

3) help get the message to those who are confused that such attacks are forbidden, as they are many people on social media who I see supporting the actions of IS, even though they themselves aren't violent.

4) help make those non Muslims around us feel comfortable , seeing that we are minorities living in the West, and we have to interact with non Muslims everyday.

Even if the argument is raised that those condemning the incident don't condemn other incidents, then that can be dealt with but that should not stop anyone from condemning this incident as its also wrong.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2015 02:13

xs11ax wrote:

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Or it could mean that all the good people of the world regardless of background will follow Isa (Alyhis Salaam),
and the rest will deliberately despite knowing the truth, rebel and wage war against him. And will be dealt with justly.

No one will suffer genocide, for their will be no one more Just and Merciful on earth at that time then Hazrat Isa (alayhis Salaam). In any case thats why we have Hadith Scholars who are qualified to interpret the texts should not make up our own interpretations.

Nor spend time on Anti-Islam websites reading the propaganda and interpretations of the Islamaphobes.

I dont see how any of this applies here unless what your saying is that this ISIS group considers, this Abu Bakr Baghdadi character to be the re-incarnation of Hazrat Isa (Alayhis Salam).

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