MY AQEEDAH?
Salafi: I wish to discuss some matters with you and I require answers from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah
Muadh Khan: Sure, Go Ahead.
Salafi: Where is Allah (SWT)?
Muadh Khan: Allah (SWT) is Mustawi upon the Arsh and the evidence is as follows:
ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنُ عَلَى ٱلۡعَرۡشِ ٱسۡتَوَىٰ
[20:5] The Rahman (Allah, the All-Merciful) has made Istawa on the Throne.
Salafi: How is Allah (SWT) Mustawi ?
Muadh Khan: I have no idea! If you can provide me the answer from Qur'aan & Sunnah it would be most appreciated.
Salafi: Isn't Allah (SWT) "Above"
Muadh Khan: What makes you say that?
Salafi: "Above" the Throne! Throne is above the Sky...Sky is above us
Muadh Khan: You asked me to respond from Qur’aan and Sunnah, where is Qur’aan and Sunnah in your answer? This is your conjecture and interpretation The Earth is round so if you take it literally ABOVE (for a person is North Pole) is BELOW (for a person is South Pole).
Salafi: Isn't it common sense that all of these are ABOVE?
Muadh Khan: Allah (SWT) has specifically commanded me to ignore common sense when it comes to Allah (SWT).
Salafi: Where?
Muadh Khan: When it comes to Allah (SWT), WHATEVER comes in my head is WRONG and I explicitly deny it.
لَيۡسَ كَمِثۡلِهِۦ شَىۡءٌ۬ۖ وَهُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلۡبَصِيرُ
[42:11] Nothing is like Him. And He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.
Salafi: How did Imam Malik (RA) answer this question?
Muadh Khan: Do you accept Imam Malik (RA) as Salaf and will accept his Judgement between us?
Salafi: Yes
Muadh Khan: OK, then here we go!
A man asked Imam Malik (d. 179): "How did Allah make istiwa' on the throne?" Imam Malik inclined his head and was silent until the sweat of fever covered his brow, then he looked up and said: "Istiwa' is not unknown (ghayru majhul), the modality of it is inconceivable in the mind (al-kayfu minhu ghayru ma`qul); but belief in it is obligatory, and inquiring about it is a heretical innovation. You are an innovator." And he gave orders for him to be taken out.
ثبت عن الإمام مالك رضي الله عنه ما رواه الحافظ البيهقي في كتابه "الأسماء والصفات"، بإسناد جيد كما قال الحافظ ابن حجر العسقلاني في "الفتح" من طريق عبد الله بن وهب قال: كنا عند مالك بن أنس فدخل رجل فقال: يا أبا عبد الله، الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَى كيف استواؤه؟ قال: فأطرق مالك وأخذته الرحضاء ثم رفع رأسه فقال الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَى كما وصف نفسه، ولا يقال كيفَ وكَيْفَ عنه مرفوعٌ، وأنت رجل سوء صاحب بدعة أخرجوه، قال: فأخرج الرجل
Conclusion 1 (Me):
I already said Allah (SWT) is Mustawi upon the Throne and Imam Malik (RA) also confirms that.
Conclusion 2 (Me):
I already said I have no idea HOW Allah (SWT) is Mustawi and and Imam Malik (RA) also confirms that.
Conclusion 3 (Me):
I believe in this and and Imam Malik (RA) also confirms that.
Conclusion 4 (You):
Imam Malik (RA) then gives a Judgement that asking this question is a HERECTICAL INNOVATION!
Conclusion 5 (You):
Imam Malik (RA) then gives a Judgement that people like you should be REMOVED!
IS ALLAH (SWT) EVERYWHERE?
Salafi: So you believe Allah (SWT) to be everywhere?
Muadh Khan: Where have I said that? Please repeat my words
Salafi: If you deny Allah (SWT) not to be on a Fixed location (ABOVE THE THRONW) then the alternative is that he is everywhere.
Muadh Khan: That is figment of your imagination! I have repeated a verse of the Qur’aan in your response. Quote the Qur’aan or Authentic Sunnah in your response to say that the opposite of affirming your “Guesswork and Conjecture” means I automatically affirm that Allah (SWT) is everywhere? Evidence, please? My evidence once more is:
ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنُ عَلَى ٱلۡعَرۡشِ ٱسۡتَوَىٰ
[20:5] The Rahman (Allah, the All-Merciful) has made Istawa on the Throne.
IS ALLAH (SWT) NOWHERE?
Salafi: So Allah (SWT) is NOWHERE THEN? Because if he not ABOVE the Throne and he is not EVERYWHERE that leaves just 1 possibility.
Muadh Khan: You have a vivid imagination! You should try writing for Bollywood they need someone with your (hyperactive) imagination.
I will keep affirming what Allah (SWT) has said in the Qur’aan in your response. Quote the Qur’aan or Authentic Sunnah in your response to say that the opposite of affirming (and what not) about your “Guesswork and Conjecture”? Evidence, please? My evidence once more is:
ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنُ عَلَى ٱلۡعَرۡشِ ٱسۡتَوَىٰ
[20:5] The Rahman (Allah, the All-Merciful) has made Istawa on the Throne.
Salafi: So what is the answer to this question?
Muadh Khan: I have nothing else to add to what Allah (SWT) has already said. You want me to add MY WORDS to WORDS OF ALLAH (SWT)? You require my words ABOVE the words of Allah (SWT).
Salafi: No only from Qur'aan and Sunnah!
Muadh Khan: You are obviously not satisfied from the Qur’aan so if you agree that you believe my words to be ABOVE the words of Allah (SWT) I can explain…
Salafi: That would NOT be necessary
Muadh Khan: May I also add that you have a habit of not listening!
Salafi: What do you mean?
Muadh Khan: I have deliberately used the word “ABOVE” twice and you have not flinched! How come you didn’t correct me to say that HOW can my words be placed ABOVE the words of Allah (SWT)?
Salafi: I knew it’s not literal and I understood the meaning.
Muadh Khan: If you understood the issue in English then why don’t apply the same principle in Arabic? You understand that languages have literal and colloquial meanings. Why do you go for a (strictly) literal interpretation in Arabic? I believe that Allah (SWT) is Mustawi upon the Throne and that is my Aqeedah. You have twisted, interpreted and made conjecture and NOT given any evidence for it!
ASHARI & MATURIDI SCHOOLS?
Salafi: But Darul-uloom Deoband say "Allah (SWT) is Everywhere"
Muadh Khan: Have you asked Darul-uloom Deoband as to what they mean in this matter?
Salafi: No but it is pretty clear what they mean.
Muadh Khan: You interpreted me and issued conjecture 3 times in the last 5 minutes. Then you refuse to ask for clarification from Darul-uloom Deoband and second guess what they mean. You seem to be pretty good at creating skeletons and chasing shadows.
Muadh Khan: But we will come back to Deoband, lets go straight to the source first. Do you agree with that approach?
Salafi: Yes, I agree.
Muadh Khan: Which approach or School or methodology does Darul-uloom Deoband represent when it comes to Aqeedah?
Salafi: Ashari/Maturidi School
Muadh Khan: You have put both of these Schools together, are they exactly the same or for the purpose of our discussion you consider them the same or similar?
Salafi: For the purpose of defining/explaining the attributes of Allah (SWT) they may be considered to be similar in the context of our discussion.
Muadh Khan: Then show me explicit statements from either the Ashari/Maturidi text which clearly state that Allah (SWT) is EVERYWHERE or NOWHERE?
Salafi: Maulana Abdul-Ghafoor writes in...
Muadh Khan: STOP! Who is Maulana Abdul-Ghafoor and what is his position/authority in the Ashari/Maturidi School?
Salafi: He is a Deobandi...
Muadh Khan: STOP! I asked you to produce explicit statements from either the Ashari/Maturidi text which clearly state that Allah (SWT) is EVERYWHERE or NOWHERE! How did Deoband come into it? This is an issue of Aqeedah so first produce a categorical statement from the School first!
Salafi: But this Maulana is a Deobandi...
Muadh Khan: I don’t doubt that at all. But I wish to know the position from a clear-cut/explicit statement from Ashari/Maturidi text. I don’t want your conjecture, I wish to know WHERE and WHICH book, WHICH Imam has made the statement that Allah (SWT) is EVERYWHERE or NOWHERE?
Muadh Khan: Juhayman ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaybi [1936-1980] was a Salafi and a favourite student of Shaykh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah bin Baz [1910-1999], is it the official position of Salafi School for people to claim to be Mahdi?
Salafi: No, Juhayman ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaybi [1936-1980] acted in an individual capacity
Muadh Khan: So why should I discuss the individual position of Maulana Abdul-Ghafoor Deobandi? I wish to discuss the position from a clear-cut/explicit statement from Ashari/Maturidi text. I don’t want your conjecture. I have no problems discussing the book of Maulana Abdul-Ghafoor or Maulana Abdullah Patel or Maulana Tariq Hafeez BUT they I expect you to debate with me about Juhayman ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaybi [1936-1980], is that fair?
Muadh Khan: Bring me Ashari/Maturidi text and then talk!
Salafi: OK, I will have to find it.
Muadh Khan: Good, I will be here, waiting. Now what did Darul-uloom Deoband said?
Salafi: OK, I will have to find it.
DARUL-ULOOM DEOBAND, ALLAH IS EVERYWHERE?
Salafi: Darul-uloom Deoband in Fatwa 32642 (issued 30th of June 2011) state that Allah is EVERYWHERE?
Muadh Khan: What do these verses of the Qur'aan mean?
وَلِلَّهِ ٱلۡمَشۡرِقُ وَٱلۡمَغۡرِبُۚ فَأَيۡنَمَا تُوَلُّواْ فَثَمَّ وَجۡهُ ٱللَّهِۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ وَٲسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ۬
[2:115] To Allah belongs the East and the West. So, whichever way you turn, there is the Face of Allah. Indeed, Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing.
وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِى عَنِّى فَإِنِّى قَرِيبٌۖ أُجِيبُ دَعۡوَةَ ٱلدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِۖ فَلۡيَسۡتَجِيبُواْ لِى وَلۡيُؤۡمِنُواْ بِى لَعَلَّهُمۡ يَرۡشُدُونَ
[2:186] When My servants ask you about Me, then (tell them that) I am near. I respond to the call of one when he prays to Me; so they should respond to Me, and have faith in Me, so that they may be on the right path.
وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنَا ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنَ وَنَعۡلَمُ مَا تُوَسۡوِسُ بِهِۦ نَفۡسُهُ ۥۖ وَنَحۡنُ أَقۡرَبُ إِلَيۡهِ مِنۡ حَبۡلِ ٱلۡوَرِيدِ
[50:16] Indeed We have created man, and We know whatever thoughts his inner self develops, and We are closer to him than (his) jugular vein,
Salafi: Allah (SWT) is near/close to us via Angels or via his Knowledge etc but not by person!
Muadh Khan: Did you not say that we are supposed to interpret Ahadeeth and verses of the Qur’aan upon the Dhaahir (apparent) and not interpret them colloquially or insert Majaaz?
Salafi: Yes we ascribe these verses upon the Dhahir.
Muadh Khan: Please interpret this Hadeeth upon the Dhaahir and if you CANNOT please tell me which principle you are following to DISREGARD Dhaahir?
حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا مَالِكٌ، عَنْ نَافِعٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ،. أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم رَأَى بُصَاقًا فِي جِدَارِ الْقِبْلَةِ فَحَكَّهُ، ثُمَّ أَقْبَلَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَقَالَ " إِذَا كَانَ أَحَدُكُمْ يُصَلِّي، فَلاَ يَبْصُقْ قِبَلَ وَجْهِهِ، فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ قِبَلَ وَجْهِهِ إِذَا صَلَّى "
Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar (RA): Allah's Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)sputum on the wall of the mosque in the direction of the Qibla and scraped it off. He faced the people and said, "Whenever any one of you is praying, he should not spit in front of him because in the prayer Allah is in front of him.".[Bukhari]
Salafi: This CANNOT be interpreted literally because we know that Allah is upon the Throne. The basic (foundation) verse is that Allah (SWT) is upon the Throne:
ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنُ عَلَى ٱلۡعَرۡشِ ٱسۡتَوَىٰ
[20:5] The Rahman (Allah, the All-Merciful) has made Istawa on the Throne.
Muadh Khan: How is Allah (SWT) upon the Throne?
Salafi: We don't know and we remain Silent?
Muadh Khan: THEN you need to understand the Aqeedah of Ulama of Deoband as they say that Allah (SWT) is PRESENT BILA MAKAAN
Salafi: What does that mean?
IF ALLAH IS EVERYWHERE, HOW?
Muadh Khan: Ulama of Deoband alongside Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaah DENY any and all resemblance with the creation.
لَيۡسَ كَمِثۡلِهِۦ شَىۡءٌ۬ۖ وَهُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلۡبَصِيرُ
[42:11] Nothing is like Him. And He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.
Salafi: I agree with denial with resemblance with the creation.
Muadh Khan: I am in front of you, you are in front of me. You can see me. The chair is behind me. The shair is holding me. The door is to the left of me. Are these all facts?
Salafi: Yes basic human facts
Muadh Khan: So how can I apply them to Allah (SWT)??? If Allah (SWT) is ABOVE everything then everything is BENEATH (or below) Allah (SWT). Isn't ABOVE and BELOW both directions and both human concepts?
Salafi: Yes
Muadh Khan: So Ulama of Deoband DON'T mean Allah (SWT) is PHYSICALLY everywhere (nobody does) because that will be a direct violation of the verse of Qur'aan. It is your LITERALIST mind which has made you Interpret the response in a LITERAL manner.
Salafi: What do you say, personally?
Muadh Khan: That is a SUPERB question! You should hold me to what I say since I cannot possibly be responsible for everybody and the whole world. I say, “Allah (SWT) is Mustwai upon the Throne”. No more, no less!
ASHARI/MATURIDI vs. DEOBAND?
Muadh Khan: You can pick up any standard Deobandi Tafseer [7:54] and you will find that Ulama of Deoband prefer Aqeedah of the Salaf.
Salafi: So what is the difference between Deobandees & Salafees?
Muadh Khan: Deobandees DO NOT insult or issues Fatwaas of Kuf’r upon Ashari/Maturidi School and recognise that at that time an approach was needed to go beyond how the Salaf interpreted these verses and offer some sort fo rational explanation to combat Heresy.
Salafi: Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA) fought heresy and deviation.
Muadh Khan: You can (perhaps) agree more towards Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA) and I accept that BUT you cannot deny that Ashari/Maturidi Schools came about to fight deviancy.
Salafi: It may be that the (original) Ashari/Maturidi Schools were correct and within the confines but later on they mixed with Greek Logic and went too far and thus became deviant themselves.
Muadh Khan: And did NOT some of those who claimed to follow the School of Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA) went beyond and fell into the trap of Anthromorphism & Tajseem? Is it not true? Do you wish for me to start quoting?
DEOBAND SHOULD REFUTE THOSE WHO WENT ASTRAY?
Salafi: So shouldn't Deoband refute those who went stray
Muadh Khan: How do those who adhere to the School of Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA) REJECT those who are guilty of Anthromorphism and Tajseem?
Salafi: They write against this matter and DENY resemblance of Allah (SWT) with the creation.
Muadh Khan: Listen to the whole series on "Response To "Reality of Deobandi Aqeedah"- Ep 1" What do you think he is doing?
Muadh Khan: Personally, I don’t even wish to debate or discuss the matter with you AT ALL! My Aqeedah is that Allah is Mustwai upon the Throne and that’s that. To discuss the matter further to me is heretical innovation and I have proven that and here it is again:
ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنُ عَلَى ٱلۡعَرۡشِ ٱسۡتَوَىٰ
[20:5] The Rahman (Allah, the All-Merciful) has made Istawa on the Throne.
A man asked Imam Malik (d. 179): "How did Allah make istiwa' on the throne?" Imam Malik inclined his head and was silent until the sweat of fever covered his brow, then he looked up and said: "Istiwa' is not unknown (ghayru majhul), the modality of it is inconceivable in the mind (al-kayfu minhu ghayru ma`qul); but belief in it is obligatory, and inquiring about it is a heretical innovation. You are an innovator." And he gave orders for him to be taken out.
ثبت عن الإمام مالك رضي الله عنه ما رواه الحافظ البيهقي في كتابه "الأسماء والصفات"، بإسناد جيد كما قال الحافظ ابن حجر العسقلاني في "الفتح" من طريق عبد الله بن وهب قال: كنا عند مالك بن أنس فدخل رجل فقال: يا أبا عبد الله، الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَى كيف استواؤه؟ قال: فأطرق مالك وأخذته الرحضاء ثم رفع رأسه فقال الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَى كما وصف نفسه، ولا يقال كيفَ وكَيْفَ عنه مرفوعٌ، وأنت رجل سوء صاحب بدعة أخرجوه، قال: فأخرج الرجل
Conclusion 1 (Me):
I already said Allah (SWT) is Mustawi upon the Throne and Imam Malik (RA) also confirms that.
Conclusion 2 (Me):
I already said I have no idea HOW Allah (SWT) is Mustawi and and Imam Malik (RA) also confirms that.
Conclusion 3 (Me):
I believe in this and and Imam Malik (RA) also confirms that.
Conclusion 4 (You):
Imam Malik (RA) then gives a Judgement that asking this question is a HERECTICAL INNOVATION!
Conclusion 5 (You):
Imam Malik (RA) then gives a Judgement that people like you should be REMOVED!
FATWA OF ALLAH (SWT)!
Muadh Khan: We both agree that these verses are Mutashabihat and Allah (SWT) says:
هُوَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَنزَلَ عَلَيۡكَ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ مِنۡهُ ءَايَـٰتٌ۬ مُّحۡكَمَـٰتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَـٰبِهَـٰتٌ۬ۖ فَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمۡ زَيۡغٌ۬ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَـٰبَهَ مِنۡهُ ٱبۡتِغَآءَ ٱلۡفِتۡنَةِ وَٱبۡتِغَآءَ تَأۡوِيلِهِۦۗ وَمَا يَعۡلَمُ تَأۡوِيلَهُ ۥۤ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُۗ وَٱلرَّٲسِخُونَ فِى ٱلۡعِلۡمِ يَقُولُونَ ءَامَنَّا بِهِۦ كُلٌّ۬ مِّنۡ عِندِ رَبِّنَاۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّآ أُوْلُواْ ٱلۡأَلۡبَـٰبِ
[3:7] He is the One who has revealed to you the Book (the Qur‘an). Out of it there are verses that are MuHkamat (of established meaning), which are the principal verses of the Book, and some others are Mutashabihat (whose definite meanings are unknown). Now those who have perversity in their hearts go after such part of it as is mutashabih, seeking (to create) discord, and searching for its interpretation (that meets their desires), while no one knows its interpretation except Allah; and those well-grounded in knowledge say: We believe therein; all is from our Lord.. Only the men of understanding observe the advice.
NUTHSELL!
Muadh Khan:
- I affirm my Eemaan upon Allah (SWT).
- I deny the resemblance with creation in ANYWAY whatsoever.
- I refuse to discuss or debate any further.
Take it or leave it, I don’t really care! BUT you can’t deny that I have discussed everything from the Qur’aan and Sunnah and NOT given you any conjecture unless when you have thrown conjecture at me.
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