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Turkish Naqshibandi Uveysi(Uwaiysi)

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2015 20:18
As salamu alaikum brothers and sisters

Yesterday one murida of Naqshibandi Uveysi had sended me the link of their website also sending me their zikr method. The website put me in doubt. ıt has concepts like trained without a shaikh, trained by Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi was sallem) spiritualy etc.İ would translate some following points that have put doubts in my mind. (Mods Plz dont get ride of the turkish words,)

"Üveysilik cismanî olarak görüşmeleri mümkün olmayan kişilerin rüya veya hal yoluyla manen görüşmeleridir. Yani Evliyanın ve Hızır’(as) ın nuraniyetinden veya Peygamber varisi olan Mürşid-i kâmillerin ruhaniyetinden faydalanarak manen yetişenlerin gittiği yolun adına “Üveysi denir.”

"Uveysilik means seeing indivuals that would have been impossible to see in physical form by dreams. Like by utilising the nur of Auliya and Hazrat Khidr(as) or by Rasullah(saw) inheritors Shaikh Kamils spirituality, those who trained spiritually are called uveysi..

"Veysel Karani Hazretleri Peygamber Efendimizi görmeden, maddi değil, manevi feyzinden yararlanarak tekâmül etmiştir. Bu yolla pek çok evliyaullah yetişmiştir. Üveysilik denince şu dört zümre anlaşılır.

a)Peygamber Efendimizin ruhaniyetinden feyz alanlar
b)Veysel Karani Hazretlerinin ruhaniyetinden feyz alanlar
c)Mürşid-i Kâmilin ruhaniyetinden feyz alanlar
d)Birde Hızır (a.s) aracılığı ile irşad olanlar

"Veysel Karani (peer of Uveysi) without seeing Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi wa sallem), not in physical but have benefitted from his spiritual example. In this way many auliyas were trained. When it comes to Uveysilik 4 categories are understood:

a) Those who take spiritual example of Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi wa sallem)
b) Those who take spiritual example of Veysel Karani
c)Those who take spiritual example of Shaikh Kamil
d) Those who through Hazrat Khidr(as) have become those who show straight path.


"Muhyiddin b.el-Arabî Hazretleri de üveysiydi. O bizzat kendi anlatışına göre Hızır (AS) müridi olmuş ve onun vasıtasıyla seyr-i sülukunu tamamlamıştır."

"Mujahiddin Al Arabi was a uwaiysi. According to his saying he have been the murid of Hazrat Khidr(as) and due to his(as) he has completed his suluk journey.

"Büyük üstadımız Bilal Baba Hazretleri de üveysilik yolundan yetişmiş bir Mürşidi Kâmildir. Ukkaşe رضي الله عنه Hazretlerinin manevi terbiyesi altında seyri sülukunu tamamlamış ve irşad vazifesi ile görevlendirilmiştir. "

"Our big ustad Hz.Bilal Baba(he was born in 1895) (Bilal Nadir)was a Shaikh Kamil who had been trained by uveysi. Under spiritual tarbiyah of Ukkaşe(Ukashah bin Mihsan Al-Asdi) he finished his suluk journey and was given position of being someone who shows straight path.

"Bilali NadirHz.

Bir süre sonra oradan da ayrılmak mecburiyetinde kalmış ve son olarak Hûlefâ-i Kadirî'den Şeyh Hafız Ali Efendi' ye gitmiştir.Şey Hafız Ali Efendi "Ben sana ders veremem; kim sana ders veririm derse yalan söyler. Sen, Üveysî Veysel Karanî' nin, Şeyhsiz yetiştiği gibi yetişeceksin. (Peygamberimiz, Veysel Karanî'yi Şeyh'siz yetiştirdiği gibi, hiç görmeden manen yetişti.) Her yüz yılda bir; aynı Veysel Karanî gibi, Peygamberimizin ruhani yardımı ile Müceddid yetişir. Bunlara Üveysî derler. Sen de bunlardan birisin evine git çalış. Allah (cc) sana verecektir" demiştir.

Evinde tek başına müzekkin nufus kitabı mucibince çalışan Bilal Nadir Hz.leri bunun yanında çok defalar Şeyh Abdulkâdir Geylâni Hz.ni, Nakş-bendî Muhammed Bahaattin Efendiyi ve Seyyid Ahmed-ür Rifâî Hz. lerini rüyasında görmüş ve manevi yardım almıştır.

Özellikle Hz. Şeyh Abdulkadir-i Geylânî Hz.leri kendisine nasıl yatacağını, nasıl uyuyacağını ve nasıl çalışacağını uzun uzadıya tarif etmiştir..

"Bilal Nadir

After sometime he was obligated to move from there and lastly he went to Qadri Khalifa Şeyh Hafız Ali Efendi. He said" İ cant give you a lesson. Whoever says to you of giving lesson he is lying. You will be trained without shaikh like Uveysi Veysel Karani.(Just like Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi wa sallem) trained Veysel Karani, without a shaikh and not seeing him, he (Veysel Karani) was trained spiritually.) Every 100 years like Veysel Karani, with Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi wa sallem) spiritual help, mujahids are trained. They call them Uveysi. You should go to one of these houses and study. Allah will give it to you."

In his home all alone ,he studied Eşrefoğlu Rumi's Muzakki-l-nufus(İts a divan talking about nafs and how to clear it). Several times he saw Shaikh Abdulkâdir Gilâni , Naqshibandi Muhammed Bahaudin and Sayyid Ahmed-ür Rifâî in dream and gotten spiritually help from them.

Especially Shaikh Abdulkâdir Gilâni told him in detail how to go bed and sleep, "

my question this turkish tariqat takes all their things from dreams. i would like to know is it accepted in tasawwuf to be trained spiritually by Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi wa sallem) or auliya? This has put doubts in my mind. If you also want i can send their zikr method too


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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2015 21:25
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2015 23:21
AishaZaynap wrote:
my question this turkish tariqat takes all their things from dreams. i would like to know is it accepted in tasawwuf to be trained spiritually by Rasullah(sallallahu alayhi wa sallem) or auliya? This has put doubts in my mind. If you also want i can send their zikr method too


To be trained in Tasawwuf By Nabi (saw) is a very rare exception. Even then, they have shuyookh who are alive.

To claim an entire silsila based on kashf and training through dreams is nothing but dodgy.. just like the Naqshbandi Owaisis of Pakistan whom we discussed about few days back.

wa Assalam..
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 08:38
dr76 wrote:
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Dr sahab jazakAllahu khayran. This website its self has many missing information like their chain. Also u may have noticed that one of their ustad had his spiritual tarbiyah from sahabi.Even has but me im doubts cos while translating i had to check the english version of names too. According to website Ukkase is a badri sahabi and his grave is in Turkey...

Now one q is left. How can i explain this to my friend without misunderstandings..
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 11:18
More than likely this is a dodgy silsila. Please send me the links to the website.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 12:25
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 12:28
AishaZaynap wrote:
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I will also send their zikrs and the name of their hazrat



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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 12:40
Quote:
one q is left. How can i explain this to my friend without misunderstandings..


السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

You should read up on what traditional Ulama' of Aqidah and Tasawwuf have written about Wiyalah and Nubuwwah. The Sunnan of Shari'ah and Kashf. Most of these confusions come due to misunderstanding these points.

Just a summary:

A person can never be a Wali until and unless his life is governed by the Sunnah. In Aqidah books it's even mentioned that the Karamah of a Wali is really a mu'jizah of a Nabi; because the Wali had to follow the Sunnah of the Nabi in order for the Karamah to come about.

The biggest Wali can never reach the status of even the lowest Sahabi, Radhiyallahu 'anhu. I'm saying this to point out that generally those who over emphasize on Kashf usually neglect or sometimes even discard the ways of Sahabah Radhiyallahu 'anhum.

Shari'ah is built upon Qat'i dalalah (definitive proofs) while Kashf is like Than (speculation) and can't be given preference over definitive proofs in Shari'ah. Not even in the least.

I'd suggest that you read a few books and excerpts of traditional Ulama to get these misunderstandings cleared.

Maulana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandlawi's rahmatullahi 'alaih book, Shari'ah and Tariqah.

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi's rahmatullahi 'alaih excerpts posted by dr76 sahib in that Owaisi refutation thread and,

Aqidah Tahawiyyah with scholarly explanation.

attahawi.com/2011/10/27/new-english-commentary-of-aqidah-...

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 13:36
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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JazakAllahu khayran brother i will check the previous owaisi thread and read the things u have suggested. This turkish tariqat is infact a threat to those who dont know tasawwuf. I mean training without shaikh kashf ilham dreams.. Where is shariah sunnah? I mean yes zikr is important but you know all know better than me that tasawwuf doesnt only mean zikr. Tasawwufs objective is to transform you to someone closer to Allah. Helping you to implament shariah sunnah Quran in your life..

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 14:30
AishaZaynap wrote:
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Exactly.

These excerpts are from Shaikh Abu 'Abdur Rahman as Sulami's rahmatullahi alaih Kitabul Aghalit and Minhajul 'Arifeen:

One is not a Sufi who is ignorant of the rulings of Allah Ta'ala, and the rulings of the Nabi Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam. Whoever does not consolidate the outward rulings (aḥkām al-ẓāhir) is not suited for refining the inner rulings (aḥkām al-bāṭin). Allah Ta'ala said: As for those that struggle in Us, We will guide them to Our path. [29: 69] How can one who gives little consideration to the outward rulings of proper habits be trusted with the haqā’iq and spiritual secrets (asrār)? Rather, none is realized [in the ḥaqā’iq] but a spiritual wayfarer (sālik). As for one that lacks wayfaring (sulūk) and struggling (ijtihād), how will he be realized and in what? Therefore, one that is ignorant of the outward rulings of Allah Ta'ala is not a Sufi. [Similarly,] one whose state differs from [shari‘ah] knowledge is not a Sufi. Al-Junayd Rahmatullahi 'alaih said to ibn ‘Alwān: “Knowledge should be your companion and the spiritual-states will enter into you, for Allah Ta'ala said: Those that are firmly guided in knowledge say, ‘We believe in it.’” [3:7] As for one whose spiritual states differs from sunnah, he is not a Sufi. It is narrated that Rasulullah Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam said: “The one who holds firm to my sunnah during the corruption of my people is like one holding onto burning coal.” As for one whose character and comportment is not upon what the Book and the sunnah oblige, he is not a Sufi.


Another mistake occurred on this issue of Nubuwwah and Wilayah the source of which was the claim that Ambiya received Wahiy from Allah through an intermediary whereas for the Wali there is no intermediary. Sulamī corrects this error by stating that Ambiya received Wahiy from Allah in both ways – mediated and non-mediated. Furthermore, the spiritual openings that a Wali receives have an element of uncertainty or possibility of deception in them whereas prophecy is absolute certainty. The qualitative difference between the knowledge of the Wali and the knowledge of the Nabi is because Wilayah in general and in its highest form (siddiqīyah) is derived “from the lights of Nubuwwah and from the blessing of following the prophetic way.” Bringing this discussion on Wilayah and Nubuwwah to a close, he returns to the narrative of Musa 'Alaihis salam and Khiḍr and says: “If Khiḍr met with an atom’s weight of what Musa 'Alaihis salam saw, he would perish such that nothing of him would remain.”
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 21:12
I'm sorry I had to check the Turkish word of khasf and I thought it was hal... also I made little mistake while translating when it talks about 4 categories.. Does it change ur view cos actually its syas taking spiritual example of Rasullah (saw) auliya and shaikh kamil. But although it says this but I mean they are still based on dreams also like getting spiritual help etc. I'm sorry for the little translation mistake. It's hard to translate Turkish tasawwuf topics
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 21:40
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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If u have checked my very first post before check again brother cos I have spotted translations error. I want to make sure if ur opinion changes after the edit of my post
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 21:51
AishaZaynap wrote:
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www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/8734-pious-buzrug...

Check this thread out and hopefully it should clear up the questions you have.

In essence dreams and kashf are not daleels in shariah and are baseless, sadly many deviants today use these to lure individuals to their cults which aren't based on removing Ill traits but on unveilings, dreams of Rasoolalah (saw) etc

Also people who make such big and bold claims are usually far from it themselves, a person who has it will do their utmost best to hide it, not publicise it and boast and brag about it.

Read the thread I linked InshAla should clear up your misconceptions. On a end note it's also important to see who this is shaykh is, who he learnt from and who he learnt from? Does that chain contain any broken links? Can it be verified? And mostly what he says and teaches is it within the boundaries of shariah? Was it the way of the mashaykh of the old? Etc

And InshAla you'll have your answer yourself.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 22:16
AishaZaynap wrote:
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Many words in Turkish and Urdu languages are the same "Hal" "Peyghambar" "nuraniyat" "Ruhaniyet" etc.
It does not really take away from the general context of what you have written.

What are the names of the present day, shaykhs of this group?

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 23:30
AishaZaynap wrote:
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Yes, I have. And as the brothers here have recommended, still avoid them. Follow the principle from the Hadith:

Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt

Deen and the sources from which it's derived are crystal clear.
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