The Halafi Onslaught

11,704

Brother

289

#31 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:17

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

View original post

Academic side of Deobandeees died a long time ago!

We have multiple institutes who have been producing graduates who can't read properly let alone be able to articulate anything.

Because their Authority amongst masses is slipping away they are desperate to regain some sort of credibility so they simply attack, attack, attack.

Shaykh Imtiaz Damiels (HA) runs his institute professionally, Laymen & Ulama both keep using his Services while the "Guardians of Deobandi Traditions" simply issue emotional statements. I don't have any problems with Deobandi Ulama highlighting errors in the Aqeedah of Shaykh Imtiaz Damiels (HA) that's their right but their approach will NOT work because it appears to be rants...They need to setup credible alternatives. HOW THE HECK did Shaykh Imtiaz Damiels (HA) manage to setup his Institute in Blackburn of all places? HOW DID the multiple Ulama resident there for decades allowed this to happen?

3 Doebands /2 SaharunPurs/2 Jamiatul-Ulama Organisations in India:

There is NOT ONE Professional Darul-uloom in India which is able to interact with the current generation, respond to their needs and queries in a timely manner. Shocking indictment of a system in a country of millions. The outstanding refutation sites, youtube channels, blogs etc are all run by Indian University Graduates

Reflection:

Instead of reflection and analysis they keep spewing poison and more poison and throwing mud, hoping it will stick!

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Agree x 1Winner x 1Informative x 1

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#32 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:33

Muadh_Khan wrote:

View original post

Muadh my theory is as follows;

Deobandis have this system of maktabs, darulooms, masjids, tabligh, khanqahs. This whole system is pretty impressive and not a single group has such a structure.

With regards to academic side I agree it is a problem but one has to realise that to deal with layman one does not need high level of academia especially in the indopak where illiteracy is high. This is however becoming less true in the UK where laymen are very learned. Just the other day I was at a relative's house who I thought was a complete jahil. He started quoting deobandis and sufism and african sufis, haqqanis, qadiyanis etc. I was surprised he had this know how.

We still have the sunnah and ikhlaas which is working in favour of deobandis. At the moment there are not many alternatives so deobandis are the best we have.

Work needs to be done. We don't want to replicate the situation in say France where tablighi jamaat brings in all the people to the masjid and when this is done salafis take over. Currently we are not in that situation but maybe things may head to that direction. In the London area tayyibun managed to open a lot of makhtabs and classes and managed to make huge inroads in the deobandi community.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1

london786

Unspecified

4,071

Brother

4,053

#33 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:36

Muadh_Khan wrote:

View original post

So essentialy Deobandis are the new Barelvis...Strangely enough the Barelvis seem to be ever so slowly adapting and there seems to be a sense of dynamism about them.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#34 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:46

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

View original post

I know about the imtiyaz damial institute. Let us not exaggerate. Imtiyaz damial's institute is just one of many institutes. We can't accuse the deobandi ulema of not doing anything. How are deobandi ulema to blame if a person opens up an institute. We live in a free country. My problem is the reaction to this. I am aware that in blackburn there is a maktab which has reverted back to urdu and taleemul islam of mufti kifayatullah. This kind of reaction is the problem. The message is pumped that learning arabic is a gateway to salafism etc.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

london786

Unspecified

4,071

Brother

4,053

#35 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:49

london786 wrote:

View original post

I think the argument is the Deobandis are too impressed by their own reflection, and fail to see their flaws, what do you think Hazrat?

Nor is an advanced level of academia acquired to assess the present challenges. Rather then just Condemn, Condemn, Condemn, would it not be wiser to actually look and analyse at to what other groups organisations are doing that is effective.

What was it about the methodology of Ikhwan of Shaykh Hassan Al Banna (Al shaheed) that made it effective?
What was it about the methodology of Hizb ut Tahrir in the Universities of the U.K. that made it effective in the 1990's?

What was it Jammat e Islami and its affiliate organisations that made it efffective in the 1980's?

What was it about Salaafi Dawah that made it effective?

What is it about Dawat e Islami that made it effective?

What methodology and psychological tactics is being adopted by the media, and the establishments of the west to deliberately target the Muslim Youth and to take them away from Islam?

What Methodology is being used by the Establishment in the west to rally their non-muslim populations against Islam? and how can we use the same methodology to counter this?

This requires simple scientific analysis, at whats effective, its not rocket science.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Agree x 1Winner x 1

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#36 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:49

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

View original post

Also brother I agree with you that brelvis are now not the brelvis we used to know. They have studied in Syria, yeman and Egypt and are now confident of their manhaj. We are underestimating them at our peril. I highlighted this to many people. One of the most senior deobandi ulema tells his students to target salafis as they are not yet prevailent in our communities but to stay silent on brelvis as they already exist. I then told his student that the brelvis are also making inroads so how can we just target salafis with refutations but not respond to brelvi attacks.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

london786

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#37 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:55

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

View original post

I'm in agreement with your points hazrat. We need to reflect. I made some recommendations to some ulema and students;

1. Our intelligent graduates should study in azhar, egypt, saudi but somehow stay firm on the deobandi mizaaj of the sunnah
2. Look at other groups and replicate them in certain areas and approaches
3. Ulema need to gather with professionals and somehow come to a working understanding. Currently there is a massive gap between awaam and ulema.
4. Change medium of teaching to arabic/english
5. Experiment with the current maktab/daruloom syallabuses and make reforms. A good example of reform is the safar academy makhtab syllabus
6. Move away from the family mafia islamic organisations though this last point is easier said than done.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1

london786

Unspecified

4,071

Brother

4,053

#38 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 13:12

london786 wrote:

View original post

Its not simply a case of Barelvi attacks or Salafi attacks we are way past that...The forces of Anti-Islam are gathered at the gates of Grenada and Andalucia...The rage and Intensity of the hatred directed towards Islam, and muslims is unprecedented. You can log on a forum talking about DIY you will find threads and posts villifying Islam, you can log on a forum on cooking you will find threads and posts villifying Islam, you can go and join a forum on gardening you will find threads and forums villifying Islam.

The masses of Europe, are being conditioned to view the Muslims as Sub-human and Pure Evil. How long before we end up like the Rohingya in Burma?

What we know from history is that Economic decline results in the breakdown of law and order...Two things that economists are predicting, for the future is one a Fuel crisis resulting in a shortage of electricity and constant black outs, that could hit the economy hard.

Secondly the experts who study Economic cycles, state that the Economic cycles run like clock work , a recession takes place every 10 to 15 years, a Depression once every 100 years, they are predicting that a Depression could take place in the next couple of Decades....Who do you think are going to be the scapegoats once there is a break down of law and order and an economic decline in Europe? Who will the native populations turn against?

Its time to get beyond the Barelvis and Salafis and look at whats coming in our direction...?

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Agree x 1Winner x 1

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#39 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 13:20

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

View original post

I'm in total agreement with you on this. The threat of getting massacred is a far bigger problem. You have made some good points. After the Bosnian war the whole focus has been on conditioning the minds of the masses against Muslims. The bubble will burst sooner or later and the hatred will be directed towards us. The media each and every single day is spreading hatred against us. A quick look at the comments page of any right/left leaning newspaper will show us how much hatred is prevailent.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1

london786

Unspecified

4,071

Brother

4,053

#40 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 13:42

london786 wrote:

View original post

In Bosnia, I remember a Brother who went right at the very beginning of the conflict circa 91/92, to deliver aid, he mentioned that one of the main TV channels was run by the Serbs, and although he couldn't understand what they were saying, from the non-stop propaganda with pictures and videos it was pretty obvious what was being relayed,
Those pictures were of women in Niqaabs, and angry bearded muslims...The message was clear "If we dont make a stand these muslims are going to wipe us out".

Only thing Muslim about the Bosnians was their ancestry (with decades of communist rule Islam had all but been wiped out), they drank wine, ate pork, new nothing of Quran and sunnah, even their friday prayer leaders had girlfriends. They inter married with non-muslims, had the same white comp lexion as their non-muslim neighbours shared a similar language and culture...! If this happened to them it would be pretty naive to think were safe.

The Young Ulemah need to buckle up, the work that they should be doing is being done by regular brothers.
There are many hundreds of ordinary brothers and sisters who are trying to defend the fort against the ever encroaching and relentless wave of attacks against the deen ...!

Whilst we got the learned engaged in their own internal and a lot of the time very petty disputes..." How come Shaykh Zulfiqar Ahmed a(db) and his Khulafah are so popular, and I have been working here for the last so many decades" So lets ban them from the masjid, "how come Mufti Menk is so popular with the youth lets run a campaign against him", etc. etc.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 1Winner x 1

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

11,704

Brother

289

#41 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 14:51

london786 wrote:

View original post

Brother,

You don't get what I am saying. Of course it’s a free country and Imtiaz Damiel and anyone else can open an institute and that is true.

The point is HOW COME in a Deobandi dominated city he is able to run an Institute which is so far above and beyond anything run by Deobandees (professionally)?

WHO is responsible for the rot in the Maktab system that someone can come in from behind and absolutely decimate them?

Turst me, if it wasn't for Imtiaz Damiel and other "Halafees" our Institutes would continue to struggle, because they are being challenged on their own turf, they are worried because their sphere of influence is shrinking and shrinking fast so they are worried.

Hazrat Worshippers are clearly on the decline; its obvious.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Winner x 1

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#42 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 15:14

I agree with you that how can Imtiyaz damial run an institute that is far more superior but is his institute far more superior? Just because he allows playstation it is superior? I have seen his institute and it is tiny compared to what is happening in Blackburn from the 'hazrat worshippers'

Let me agree with you that the maktab system is a joke. Let us agree on this. But is there any replacement? Go to mainland europe and see arab children who can't even read quraan and then we will value the makhtab system even in it's present state. My children attend a local maktab and it is probably amongst the best we have in our local area.

I agree with you the likes of imtiyaz damial are good alarm bells for us like how nadhir husain dehlavi of the ahle hadith was the wake up call for hadeeth amongst deobandis in indopak.

Also with all due respect who are the hazrat worshippers? The vast majority of deobandis are just normal muslims who probably don't know what deoband and hazrat is.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 1Creative x 1

london786

11,704

Brother

289

#43 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 15:31

london786 wrote:

View original post

In a multi-cultural multi-ethnic society information-centric 2 things won't survive:

Taqleed Shaksi
Hazrat Worship

The crux of both is TOTAL devotion and OBEDIENCE to an individual, unless and until that individual is so far head of the pack that he commands respect it can't work.

We have NOBODY amongst the Deobandees who commands respect due to Academic ability alone. Like it or not, Shaykh (Dr) Akram Nadwi (HA) does, people may disagree with him but nobody disagrees with his Academic pedigree.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

Unspecified

4,071

Brother

4,053

#44 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 15:41

Hazrat Worship, is probably a new thing if it really exists to the extent it is being projected, traditionally your ordinary Deobandis that is before mid 1990s, in UK were anti-Tassawuf and Hazrats,..... most probably still are.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1Optimistic x 2

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#45 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 15:59

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

View original post

I agree with you. Most of the masjids are controlled by uncles and very few masjids are controlled by 'hazrats'. Even a masjid that has a mureed or khalifah of a particular shaykh the congregation hardly knows about it let alone people becoming hazrat worshippers. It is a total exaggeration.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

london786

The Halafi Onslaught

Font Size

Font Weight