The Halafi Onslaught

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 16:03

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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I agree with you that we have nobody who matches akram nadwi academically from what I have seen. Hazrat worship survived all these years. Nuh keller, muhammad al yaqoubi have gathered a good number of people under 'hazrat worship' and the same is true of hamza yusuf abdul hakim murad etc. People will always follow personalities. Difference is who do we do taqleed of. Should we do taqleed of ismail patel and his friend the punk mufti abu layth or the humble sunnah abiding scholars of deoband...That I shall leave to people to decide

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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 16:15

Speaking from personal experience coming from a Barelvi background, I ended up going to evening classes at my local masjid which was Deobandi, during my years there I do not recall Tassawuf or Hazrats being mentioned, unless it was in relation to barelvis and a biddah. The most popular speaker amongst Deobandis back then was Maulana Abdul Majeed Nadeem Shah, known for his speeches against Barelvi peers.

So I remained anti-tassawuf and anti-Hazrats till I reached my 20s and when to my surprise I found out traditionally Deobandis also have Hazrats and believe in Tassawuf. So my impression is that vast majority of your ordinary Deobandis believe that Tassawuf and Hazrats are a biddah invented by barelvi, and often those Deobandis attached to a Hazrat are looked down upon as Bidattis so from that perspective as far as Tassawuf goes, I would say most Deobandis are Halafees.

If by Hazrat worship we mean Personality worship were by a charismatic personality acquires, a loyal following. and individuals develop a mindset towards him of my shaykh right or wrong, then you find that across the board, amongst Salaafis also and..... even on forums, were a personality unwittingly develops groupies.

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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 16:31

how good is maulana imtiaz damiels institution?
how many institutions has he established in uk?
what is the age range of students attending his institution?
how many students does his institution have?

is hazrat worship referring to Maulana Yusuf Motala's mureeds and khalifas?
I can't think of anyone else that has large following among UK deobandis other than him.

makatibs in Dewsbury/batley teach tasheel series books from south africa and and they are top notch, dont see what else they can teach teach to 4-13 years old.
one masjid in Batley has started to publish its own books for maktabs.
one masjid in Dewsbury has also started 3 year course for people age 13 plus who have finished maktab or adults. its 1.5 hr long, 4 days a week. they teach arabic and other kitabs (not an alim course btw)

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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 16:45

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I doubt many people outside Blackburn would have heard of him, until the ulemah raised their concerns about him.

In masjids were the community is supportive and willing to finance quality teachers you have a better standard of education. In Masjids were parents are unwilling to pay for the privilege, then you probably left with one Maulana with one or two elders acting as volunteers, unfortunately many parents begrudge the fact the masjid charges for classes..."They should be teaching for the sake of Allah why are they charging us money."

Along comes Shaykh Imtiaz Damiel and realises that there is a sub-section of parents who are frustrated at the standards on offer and who are willing to pay and finance an institute that delivers a good quality education for their children. So he targeted those parents, developed a reputation, and more parents got encouraged so there you go...When parents are paying good money then they are liable to take a far greater interest in their childs learning and give relevant support encouragement to the child and the institute.

Many regular parents to care what the child is learning at masjid, although they know is "I payed my weakly £5/£10 fee its up to the masjid to teach.."

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 20:17

london786 wrote:

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Deobandees have Hazrat Worship:

A has it
B has it
C has it
X has it
Y has it
Z has it

So what?

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2015 08:30

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Brother can you tell me a bit more about ebrahim college?
I know someone who really loves them and was active with them, to me he seems to attack deoband whenever he can but claims to be deobandi. That is fair when the arguments are fair, however where he criticises them he then goes on to praise ebrahim college as if its the best darul uloom in uk meeting the needs of the new generation.

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2015 09:44

Abu Haneefa Foundation, Ebrahim College or Action Jackson Shiv-Shinkar Tareeqa the point which needs to be addressed that the present (Deoandi) Institutes are unprofessional, unresponsive. Therefore any Action Jackson Shiv-Shinkar Tareeqa Darul-uloom pops up next to Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat Saheb (HA) and usurps the Deobandi turf.

All Deobandees seem to be able to do is write about "Halafi Onslaught" but not do anything about it.

I obviously know a lot of details and background which I don't want to publicly write about.

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 11:33

Rajab wrote:

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Good questions brother.

1. How good is imtiyaz damial's institution? Only local people can advise. My friends in the local area tell me it is for rich people. The average working class person in blackburn cannot afford the fees or does not want to part with more than £5 per child per week. I suspect the latter.
2. How many institutions has he established? I think just the one. This shows us about the obsession with halafis. They are a tiny minority.
3. Hazrat maulana yusuf motala hardly has that many mureeds or khalifahs calling for hazrat worship. His main khalifah shaykh riyad ul haq keeps a much lower profile these days and is more inclined towards a reformist form of sulook where emphasis is given on tilawat of quraan. I can't see how a person can call this hazrat worship.
4. About maktabs in dewsbury/batley I agree with you that the tasheel series is half decent. Still could do with some changes like introducing arabic etc.
5. The masjid in Dewsbury you refer to is maulana yaqub qasmi's grandson. I feel this is the way foreword. A reformed darse e nizami needs to be taught to children so from the age of 10 children start studying the books of the darse e nizami i.e. aqeedah tahawaiyah, arabic, seerah ibn hisham etc. I have heard that in Batley they have something like this where the makhtab system has extended to an almost alim course. We have a big problem where kids finish masjid at the age of 14 or so when their critical years are ahead. We need children to be kept in madrasah until they are like 22 with maybe the hours/timings changing so as to acommodate university/college students.

Your points are correct however

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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 11:36

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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To put shaykh saleem dhorat in the equation is a bit unfair. His students are at least semi-professional from the one's I have come across. Your point is valid though

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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 11:43

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I could say a lot about the ebrahim college lot. They are the kind of people who will tell you that it is ok to look at female's in the eye without any desire and try to claim the disease is in us. i.e. those advocating segregation. They have a lot of good in them but we should not associate them with being deobandi. There are many good teachers who teach there but most of them are not firm on the deobandi colour. This does not mean it takes them outside of ahlus sunnah. Just as a deobandi I feel uncomfortable with a lot of them. Their academic standards is better than darulooms and their students are generally better. You put a person who did the darse e nizami part time in ebrahim college and he will be heads and shoulders above a normal darse e nizami grad who spent many hours eating, sleeping and living 24/7 in darulooom. This is the crux of the matter and due to this no amount of ranting from my side will change this.

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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 14:55

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u get what u put in, kids from grammar school go to top unis and have good careers but to get in to grammar schools at age of 11 its very tough

in darul ulooms they are no entrance tests, maany times we enroll our weakest kids in to darul ulooms and send the clever ones to uni

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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 15:44

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You can add this to that list too , the money making pyramid schemes such as ACN and traffic monsoon, ulema gave fatwa declaring it haraam.

Yet at the same time hundreds of ulema were active in this and still are (ACN and similar schemes similar to it) Many madrassah students of Darul Uloom s are in on these schemes and their ustaadhs (big teachers from madaaris). A friend of mine was struggling recently financially a few months back so I suggested to him this idea and I said I've heard a lot of people are making good money, he named one big alim from Bury Darul Uloom and said he's doing it big and whoever he goes to people don't say no to him and join his pyramid which has hundreds already (MLM)

People make a lot of money through ACN and I know a few of the guys who made it to the top from being broke selling toys in markets. People would market and legitimise this business by saying o so and so alim does it, when you have hundreds of ulema doing it why won't you believe it to be legit especially if it can change your life? And it has done. Now claims are being made that money has been restricted and some issue has come up, what issue? Company has been around for nearly 2 decades now and has made billions over the years.

Don't make sense to me, pointed it out to a mufti about other ulema, his reply was then it's there own ijtahad/or an ijtahadi issue. Question is why the fatawa now when everyone has rinsed it and made money?? Will they also give fatawa against ulema involved and pushing it or is it just for the lay people???

In regards to traffic monsoon, a few have mentioned to me this is the new thing up north and a hit with madrassa students due to the minimal amount of investment needed, ulema are involved, daiees are involved etc

I don't know much about this to comment as it's fairly a new business, however the owner has a shady past, he set up two similar businesses in the past, people make money initially then the payments stop, others are claiming he's learnt his lesson and is changing his ways. Recent fatwa has also declared it haraam based on one term that if you don't log in within a certain period of time all funds are lost, something along these lines.

A big mess I know.

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 15:54

Rajab wrote:

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Yeah that's true just like you get strong accountant, lawyer, doctor same goes for ulema you get good, excellent and weak too.

I've come across some graduates from these institutes and I can say I haven't been impressed at all, they give talks in Ramadan and every second line consisted off my Hadhrat this my Hadhrat that and you could tell the audience starts to get impatient too. On the other hand I've come across many good graduates from the same situation who would never mention 'my hazrat etc' and very knowledgeable and grounded.

I've come across certain layman being more read and we'll versed than alims, this is a sad state of affairs in my view, however not all are like that, many do study more after their 7 years and continue studying, however some usually think that's it were done.

About Ebrahim college grad being better and more well versed than a darse nizami grad, I don't know about that and it'll depend,the best grads being produced right now are usually the ones faarigh from Blackburn, however it all comes to individual effort, hunger, passion and desire.

Also Ebrahim college is hugely expensive and their umrah and hajj packages are a joke, sorry but not everyone can afford these type of prices.

Allah knows best

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The Halafi Onslaught

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