Eid 2015: The Day Deobandees abandon Deoband

Not Shar'ae Shahahad but acceptance of it.  Are you saying that if a Mufti ACCEPTS a Shar'ee Shahadah it is a Qat'e matter and not Dhanni (on the part of the Mufti)?

I don't know where the requirement to use Naked eye sighting comes from, Mufti Saheb.

Many Ulama of Deoband today believe that impossible sightings (such as this one) can be rejected by using Astronomical data. The Ulama in California & Chicago have rejected that.

I accept it so far.

More data for this specific location is needed, I also accept that...

But they have gone further and called the data construct from sightings between 1895-2001 into dispute.

I also accept the possibility of that since Science is not absolute...

But the basis of sighting which they cannot prove (acceptance and proving it are 2 separate matters). If the Ulama can prove these sights let them open their records for scientific scrutinty because the matter has been pushed into scientific domain instead of Fiqh

I also accept the possibility of that...Let more data in and scrutinise it...

The Ulama of Deoband have never made such claims without proof hence the title about departure from the Manhaj of Deoband. I know its melodramatic but then so be it...

Mufti Saheb,

I also believe that there is misunderstanding so let’s clear a few things.

Science is neither absolute nor divine! Everyone can and should challenge it, in fact science advances due to it being challenged and should be challenged.

Visibility curves are no different.

If a group of people sight the moon there are not 2 but 3 possibilities:

1. They are all in cahoots to lie
2. They did sight it.
3. They made a mistake

Other Ulama and experts in USA & Canada have taken position 3, nobody has chastised them or doubted their sincerity but Ulama from South Africa appear to be operating in a Binary mode (1 or 2).

You are a Mufti and we are not but where did you learn this Binary mode operation from? Are you suggesting that every Moon Sighting testimony a Qadhi rejects is automatically a proof that they are in Cahoots (and lying)? Please quote us the basis of this principle.
If a Qadhi accepts a testimony it is sufficient for the purpose of establishing an act of worship (we accept that) but where did you get the idea that it is a proof of a definitive Moon Sighting. Please quote your sources and we will put it to independent Ulama for verification. Accepting Moon Sighting testimonies is not a Qadti (absolute matter) but a Dhanni (Speculative) matter, again if you disagree we can consult Darul-Iftaas around the world for an independent opinion.

We accept that Authority of the Ulama to establish an act of worship (although causing chaos and disarray in the process) without fully explaining what they did, why they did and how they did. This will (no doubt) do significant damage to the Deobandees in North America but as always our Ulama don’t care or don’t realise what happens to the rank and file of sincere Deobandi (men and women) on the streets of North America.

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf & Dr Youssef Ismail both make Islamic and logic sense on the issue while our Ulama apart from advancing the Tassawuff credential of the sighters (or their relationship) have YET to advance any coherent argument in this discussion.

If instead of these 6-10 “particular individuals” it was 15 people from my Masjid Ulama would probably say YES we accepted the testimony but there won’t be any challenge to Science or calling the whole subject into dispute etc.

And do throw the whole subject into disrepute but do so with evidence to back your claims so they can scrutinised.

And do add Data to the subject, absolutely right BUT that data needs to be scrutinised independently and not because Shaykh A knows Mufti B so it must be right!