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Senior 'Ulema of South Africa on ISIS

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 13:22
london786 wrote:
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I respectfully disagree because some of the Tassawuff practises he is referring to clearly don't exist in Deobandees either in SA or India but do exist in Barelwee Sufees.
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 13:27
Whoever the writer is, tried to describe real frustration of sincere Muslims at the beginning...but couldn't maintain Sabr to draw a convincing conclusion and played the old universal Salafi record.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 13:54
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Very true, he was nowhere close to being fair & just in his rant. Which Deobandi believes his Shaykh to be Hazir-Nazir?
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 14:14

True Life wrote:
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I am willing to put my Mortagage on the line that this guy is either NOT full South African OR not an (ex) Darul-uloom graduate or not an (Ex) fully fledged Deobandi.

His spellings and rant isn't right. No way...

Whether what he is saying has Merit or not is a different game.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 14:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Assakaamu 'Alaykum

Not commenting on the content of the letter or anything else for that matter...

Just would like to ask you to highlight some of the spelling issues that you mention?

Shukran
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 14:58
afriki_haqq wrote:
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W-Salam

See how Tassawuff is spelled and then be is inserting e,a,o repeatedly into everything which is very unlike how South Africans write.

Then he is talking about Hazir-Nazir which no Deobandi in their right mind will accuse others of.

Then he is using "Hazrat-Worship" which is online Jargon a Deobandi Alim would use Shaksiyat-Parasti or some derivative thereof.

There are Ex-South African Deobandees around but they don't use these terms and arguments. This is from someone who has very superficial knowledge of Deobandees and not someone who is an Alim and well aware of Deobandi-Jargon.

Jzk
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 15:09
Actually he could've got also hold of all that "knowledge" by browsing SunniForum for a few days...

Sidenote: There are also a lot of senior Deobandi scholars in the SA supportive of Jihad and are quite open about it and don't beat around the bush...
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 21st May 2015 15:52
No body denies Jihad.
But there are two fields or standards on which you can play in this life
First one is the field of Asbab
Second one is the field of taqwa and nusrat of Allah

Sahaba understood that the enemy cannot be beaten if we play against them on the first field or based on the first standard, their army, man power, weaponry was all much beyond and advance. Off course they would prepare to the best of their ability.

Sahaba had yaqeen/conviction if they play against the enemy on the second field or standard then victory is sure. Hence strict instructions were given to have solid obedience to Allah, rectify your self fully before the battlefield, and focus on your self and not the enemy. The letters of Abu Bakr R.A and Umar R.A are preserved and full of these hidayat, not to forget their clear instructions on adopting taqwa when dealing with non-combatants.These are not sufi shaykhs, these are Khulafa rashideen giving hidayat and conditions for victory.

Irony is that ISIS can speak and lecture well, but they are pathetic. They know they cant win on both of the fields above or based on those standards. Because of weak in Asbab, they dont dare to attack the real enemies sitting next to them, Country of Iran and Israel. They know their taqwa is not upto the par and only have some jazba. Which doesn't do much.

So then the easiest target are the ordinary sunnis and some minorities as if the whole problem of ummah is because of them. Picking fights with them and spilling blood. Unless ISIS adopt Taqwa there is no way they can achieve anything for themselves or the ummah. Because forsure they will not be able to acquire the asbab that their enemy has.

Ulema understand the above standards and hence do not want muslim lives to be wasted.
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd May 2015 07:12
Black Turban wrote:
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Lies:

1.
Quote:
Our entire madrassah phase was based upon the “buzrug” element. We were saturated with the buzrug system. And…yes, we loved and adorned it. But all along, that nagging of guilt did not leave our inner heart. There was this nagging issue of Jihad. Why do such pious and learned people ignore Jihad?[/quote]

I wonder who were those people defeated Soviets in Afghanistan...

2.
Quote:
...What was happening in Palestine? (Note that in the 70’s we only new of one fighting – in Palestine)

We were told to ignore their fight as those were simply wretched souls without beards or Indian kurtas and deserved the punishment and wrath of Allah![/quote]

!!!

3.
Quote:
The bulk of the talks included the miraculous feats and tales of the buzrugs (which of course were now discovered to be mostly false hearsay, devoid of any authenticity).[/quote]

Just a Salafi sweeping statement...

4.
Quote:
A system riddled with fantasies, love stories, foreign type zikrs and shagls, hazrat worship and shirk type beliefs could definitely not be the truth( one type of shirk was to regard your sheikh as “haazir naazir” (constantly present and looking at you) even in salaah. It was an Islam from the tales of the 1001 Arabian Nights, far from the Islam of the Noble Sahabah Radhi Allahu Anhum.[/quote]

One of the greatest blunders...

5.
Quote:
We were shocked to discover our false beliefs. We realized that the rejection of jihad originated from none other than the notorious irjah system which came about centuries ago. And Sufis were among the greatest proponents of the irjah system.[/quote]

Quote:
What is the irjah or murjiah system?

The irjah system was never rejected because most sufis and learned scholars favored it as a quick way out to side step jihad. Most of the world ulema and sects promote irjah fully. It is a disease which only the true ulema will be able to combat with the aid of jihad against these sects. People today openly promote irjah and they travel far and wide to propagate their baatil irjah. To compound their baatil, these murjiahs believe that their world wide acclaim, large numbers and massive following are directly accredited to its maqbooliat (divine acceptance) May Allah save us. This is a weak argument as Christians, shias etc have been around for centuries too and they are much larger in number than these sects. But it is apostasy to claim that they could be on the truth due to their large numbers, following, learned priests and scholars.[/quote]

Quote:
Common murjiah sects

The current Khilafa is established upon the Minhaj of Nabuwah (ie as in the time of our Nabie Salallahu Alayhi Wasllam) and it is time now to scrutinize the sects that had penetrated the entire Muslim world.

The three most notable murjiah sects today are: Sufi sect, Mouloodi sect and the Tabligh Jamaat sect.

Unfortunately, the Deoband School today has harnessed all three groups under their own banner. Thus today, as it stands, they are also deviant from the haq.


These sects have many features in common; but the sufi sect is the most deviant. Their teachers promote a type of passive shirk, divine communication and a host of actions justified by terms as: Ilhaam (divine inspiration) , Kashf (divine entry into the unseen) Ru’ya (instructions via dreams) and the actions and sayings of the past and present buzrugs. The Mouloodi sect is simply a bunch of singing and dancing offshoot of the sufis. They are a totally corrupt and have numerous blasphemous beliefs.

The Tablighi movement is a deviant sect promoting passive Islam or rather Mohandis Ghandi Islam.[/quote]

So...this is their analysis?!!!

6.
Quote:
Tasowuff

Irjah led to the invention of tasowuff....

...A word of note here, faidh in sufi terms denotes a constant spiritual light stream emanating from the sheikh, whether he is dead or alive. Thus it is common for them to visit the graves of their sheikhs “to connect further to this line of faidh.” This is kufr and unheard of in the Sunnah![/quote]

Apart from strange spelling, he tried to mix up Barelwi Aqeedah with Deobandi systems and draw a general conclusion.

7.
Quote:
The Aggression of these sects

They are willing to spill blood and post henchmen around to physically attack their opponents. Yet the kufaar and murtadeen mock Nabie Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam on a daily basis but they NEVER dream of rising up in defense of Nabie Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam. They say “….adopt patience…”. And they brand defenders of our beloved Nabie Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam as – “thugs and hooligans”.

By Allah I swear that these people have zero love for Nabie Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam[/quote]

It seems under their Khawariji Khilafat they have been granted a divine love-o-meter to measure amount of love for Rasoolullaah's (saw) in people's heart!

8.
Quote:
Personal experience[/quote]

I was really expecting to read stories of his real encounter with Shuyookh of Tasawwuf or their followers but what I got is that boring Salafi drum beating- no variation.

Quote:
Their concept of someone harming a wali is totally crooked and they misquote the hadeeth wherein Allah proclaims: “Whoever harms a wali of mine can expect war from me”

They actually have absolutely no clue to the actual meaning of this Hadeeth. If they did truly understand its meaning, they would obviously never limit it to “India buzrugs” and their “khalifas”. In other words a wali has attained sainthood through a manmade hereditary system, very similar to the Christian sainthood methodology. Thus this structure effectively denies the description of a true wali mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah. When Allah describes a true mujahid as his wali, they refuse to acknowledge that and will not hesitate to insult and curse him. Their typical modus is to condemn and curse the mujahedeen daily. Are they not afraid of the “war” which Allah will declare upon them for harming his friends?[/quote]

Therefore, can we assume that Ameerul Khawarijeen doesn't consider Mullah Muhammad 'Umar (Hafizahullaah) to be a true Mujahid? Because he is wholeheartedly accepted by Deobandi 'Ulama and except deviants, no one condemn or curse him.

9.
Quote:
World wide Influence

Unfortunately this sheikh-mureed system is widely acknowledged especially in India and western countries. The more followers the sheikh acquired, the greater his influence and “maqbooliat” (accepted by Allah). He receives royal treatment and in most cases they are usually surrounded by the “laanies” and other worldly influential doctors, lawyers, and hazrat worshippers- people who are all too willing to sponsor their first class luxurious world tours. The journeys and Disneyland rides are termed “islah majlis” (whatever that means) and are accompanied by many holidaymakers with packages generally packed with expensive tourist’s attractions and peppered with daily doses of “min janibillah malfoozat” (talks placed into the heart by Allah) dished out on the fly which in turn are so readily swallowed by the most eager head nodding and torso swirling mureeds. Plus the generous offerings, sumptuous meals and celebrity quality transport. Their food and drink leftovers are treated as holy and divided as booty among themselves.

But when we ponder the lives of the noble Sahabah and those after them, the true saints of Allah never do we discover this type of system. They never acquired thousands of mureeds, they never indulged in sumptuous meals and they were never entertained by “laanies”.[/quote]

Every person knows about simple and poor lifestyle of numerous Deobandi 'Ulama. This Jahil is trying to generalise them with some deviated persons.

Unfortunately his sect's Ameer and commanders can be accused more of what he is saying about others.

10.
Quote:
Buzrug?

A buzrug is a Persian term used to denote a wali or saint of Allah.

So what is a wali in its true sense? Let us search the Quran and Sunnah. The Quran describes them as virtuous, steadfast in Salah, Zakaah AND Jihad. They were also honest, sincere, noble, faithful, harsh upon the kufaar, soft and kind to the Muslims, perpetual in salaah and never feared the chastising of the chastisers. All the Sahabah had these qualities so we could indisputably declare them as Awliyah (plural of wali). And their weapons were always strung upon their shoulders or at their sides.[/quote]

IS fulfills these criteria by calling Muslims as Kuffar and being harsh upon them, soft and kind to Khawarij groups who follow them.

Quote:
If we search for a true wali of Allah we find another description in a Hadeeth: “…should he ask for or say anything, not much attention would be paid, should he ask for your daughters, he will be refused…”, in brief a person you don’t care much about. Allah says that by his honor if this person should even take an oath, Allah will fulfill it accordingly.


Does al Baghdadi fulfill this criterion?

[quote]Sheikh-Mureed

So now, where did all this really originate from? There are many theories, but the most obvious would be a copycat guru system. The Sheikh-Mureed is based upon the same system implemented by the gurus of India and the pre-Islam fire worshippers of Persia. The Sheikh-Mureed system is governed by orders similar to the guru orders and they pass on their “spiritual” blessings down into their successor’s hearts with a “chest to chest” connection. The sufis also claim to have connected chains leading right up to Ali Radhi-Allahu-Anhu. May Allah forbid! Where do they get this information from? Not a single narration or authentic source could verify these chains and “spiritual khilaafa” of the Sahabah. This is another deviant way to divert the true physical khilaafa of the Sahabah into the spiritual realm of their “buzrugs”.

There are also certain dangerous beliefs attached to the sheikh, for example, that they constantly receive kashf of every movement of their mureeds; their actions should never be challenged, even if it be against Sharia. Nor are you allowed to even endorse nahi anil munkir (preventing wrong) amongst them. How could you ever find fault with a “sinless buzrug”? Did you ever dream of voicing your dislike for their anti Shariah actions? Do you raise your voice when your sheikh and his mureeds are seated in a packed mixed audience watching dolphins and their scantily clad maidens’ antics accompanied by corresponding music? You are commanded to believe that their actions should never be questioned as they are perpetually in a “haal” (lofty spiritual state) under the throne of Allah. Their followers truly believe that their sheikhs are in contact with Allah and whatever they speak or write is “…a noor (divine light) directly from the throne of Almighty Allah”. Na-oezo-billah what shirk and blasphemy! Many of the books written by these buzrugs contain lies, fabrications and unauthentic hadeeth, yet their followers refer to these books as “ light directly from the Arsh of Allah”, May Allah forbid.


Sweeping statement...

11.
[quote]Spiritualism

So what does spiritualism actually mean? It is foreign to Islam and cannot be found anywhere in the Quran and Sunnah and the lives of the Sahabah. Most of the books written or orated from the buzrugs are filled with spiritualism claimed to be derived from verses of the Quran and Hadeeth. However, most of their sources are from the Mathnawi by Moulana Rumi. Sufis have branded the mathnawi as the “quran of Persia” –May Allah forbid. And when they do quote the verses of the Quran and hadeeth it is simply presented not to expound the Quran or the Sunnah, but merely as symbols to confirm their own spiritual explanations which were claimed to be either received as “ilhaam”(revelation) or “ilqa” (direct communication from Allah). Millions of rands (and in most cases public funds) are wasted publishing these sufi books and fairy tales which became freely available in all the masaajids of South Africa with some masjids boasting entire lined corridors to such an extent that they have replaced the Quran -another cunning method utilized by shaytaan to remove the Quran from our lives. A similar incident is mentioned in the Quran of a kaafir who attempted to direct the believers away from the Quran with his imported fairy tales from Rome and other ancient cities. Look at his punishment…


He perhaps didn't hear anything about their Imam Ibn Taymiyya and Ibn Qayyim's (Raheemahullaah) books on Tasawwuf.

12.
[quote]Sahr

In addition to being murjiahs, an integral part of this Indian system was their involvement with superstitions, aamils and sahr (black magic). Any “molvi”or ”moulana” who can “speak” to jinns or remove sahr is known as an “Aamil”. They are very similar to the bone throwing Black sangomas of South Africa. It has absolutely nothing to do with Islam and in many cases these “aamils” practice open shirk and kufr. Unwary Muslims flock to them but despite constant warnings against these frauds, they are simply too naïve to realize that their association with these dajjals is plain kufr and shirk. To compound this baatil, many of these “aamils” are “khalifas of the great buzrugs of India” – so now these aamils are holy people of Allah who can’t be wrong, people who are blessed with “special” nusrah (aid) – Subhanallah, what blasphemy.


His sheer ignorance makes it too hard to believe that he is actually an old ex-Deobandi.

13.
[quote]Journey to the truth

It was a painful experience to abandon a lifetimes involvement with a highly treasured system which convinced all of its adherents to be the true deen of Islam. But Allah requires you to forfeit all your idols and only worship him- that is true imaan. The mushriks of Mecca knew the truth, but they refused to abandon their dear lifelong idols.

It was not easy to reject the current Deobandi system founded by luminaries who were perhaps not part of the irjah camp and who readily supported active Jihad as well as its promotion, but history is scant on such matters. Although Deoband was allegedly involved in great battles, no historical facts could verify these claims. No mujahideen were housed, or produced from this institution. On the contrary, our stay in Deoband did not reflect Jihad at all. The Deobandi institution strictly implements its original Nanotwi constitution without modifications and if any Jihad doctrines ever existed, why did it vanish? In fact the current principal (a grandson of the original founder) at our time was totally against any Jihad or opposing the mushrik government. When the Indian mushrik government was forcefully castrating the Muslims, he was calling for peace and co-operation with these mushriks. Many Deobandis will scramble to defend this allegation with claims that some hazrats were even martyred in a battle. That may be true to a certain extent but Jihad was definitely NOT Deobandi policy, otherwise every Deobandi would naturally be a fully fledged mujahid. An institution’s products are always reflected in their ideology. If the ideology was Jihad, the graduates would definitely also reflect Jihad –NEVER the opposite. Deobandis will claim that history is full of “the great Jihad of Deoband and their 14,000 Ulama slaughter tale” This is a fabrication with absolute no authentic source


Here are my questions-

Where did he get unauthenticity of these information from?

If from Kuffar's books, then why is he relying on Kuffar to get information?

Who really fought against British empire?

14.
[quote]Jihad is Islam and denial is kufr

Note Well: Sufi ideology expressively denies Jihad, not necessarily in word form, but in actions, teachings and intentional elimination of Jihad verses which brought about a new world order of “spiritual Jihad”.

This ideology clearly opposes the Quran and Sunnah.

...........................................................................

Actually these are excuses presented by those who refuse to partake in jihad. The Quran mentions one such person who came to Nabie Sallalu-alayhi-wasallam at the time of recruiting for the battle of Tabuk. This person claimed that he had a weakness for roman girls. So he would like to be excused from Jihad. So he presented an excuse similar to the sufi excuse “until islah of the nafs has been made…”

A verse was then revealed wherein Allah reprimanded him severely and described his remaining behind as the actual great fitna. Observe how Allah rebukes people who present these false excuses!


Beautiful! Presenting Munafiq's story to prove deviation of Tasawwuf?

[quote]My stance

While in SA, these irjah sects were challenged, Jihad was openly promoted and taught; Muslims were incited to rise and fight America and all those who supported them. The irjah sects unfortunately control all the masjids and public platforms whereby they managed to silence the truth for a while though by placing bans on masjids and radio platforms. The masses were persuaded not to listen to this “radical madman who will soon be destroyed for opposing their hazrats ”…Yes we are proud to be labeled madmen for those were labels given also to the glorious Sahabah radhi Allahu anhum


They were indicating to Khawarij whose footsteps you are following. They were real radical madman destroyed for opposing our Hazrats i.e. Sahabah (RA) and their followers.

15.
[quote]Moving to Shaam

.............................................................................



Sorry to say, similarities which he showed between Dajjal's fitnah and these deviant sects' mindset, is devoid of proofs from Quran-Sunnah.

16.
[quote]The Khilafah condemnation campaign and its myths

3. Dowla kills Muslims and innocent people

4. Dowla takfeers everyone who disagrees with them

5. The Khilaafa is Illegitimate


These are true. This letter is a great proof.

17.
[quote]Dowla does not kill any Muslim. They only fight kufaar, shia, yazeedi and murtad . Currently Jabhatu Nusrah has joined the coalition and is thus fighting side by side with the Taghoot enemy. Dowla regards this as an act of irtidaad established from the Quran and Sunnah.

Dowla does not takfeer any Muslim who disagrees with them on any fiqh law. However, if their aqeedah is against the Quran and Sunnah, then they will most certainly takfeer you. That is absolutely in order according to Sharia.


Self contradictory and twisted arguments- I expected something better.

To sum up:

- Impose your beliefs on others.

- If they accept, they remain Muslim.

- If they don't accept, their Aqeedah becomes wrong. They gets out of fold of Islam (IS version).

- They are Halal to kill now.

- In this way "Dowla does not kill any Muslim." is justified.

[quote]The Khilaafa is not illegitimate nor was it necessary to “consult” anyone. Throughout history, many Muslim thrones were violently seized and accepted by the Muslim masses without opposition. Harun Rashied seized the throne yet he was acclaimed to be one of the greatest khalifas of the Muslim world. Aurengzeb seized the throne from his father, had him imprisoned and executed his two brothers, yet the “hazrats of India” regarded him as the greatest ruler of India. No one accused him as one who acquired an illegitimate throne.


Is this his proof? Really? Where is Quran-Sunnah?

18.
[quote]Some points to ponder

I need answers to this question:

Do you accept us as Muslims?

There are only two answers to this question, either a NO or either a YES.

If the answer is NO, then present your proof which casts us out of Islam. To this date, no one could forward that type of evidence.

If the answer is YES, which means that you do accept us to be Muslims? So either we are good Muslims or bad Muslims, but Muslim indeed. Correct?


Sorry, there is another reply. We consider you as Khawarij who swing between Imaan and Kufr.

19.
[quote]My Final Advice

It is necessary for you to study the Quran and Sunnah and to clear your heart and mind of all doubts regarding the aqeedah of our Deen. No one should be embarrassed to re-learn Deen, no matter the age. Upon entry into Dowla, everyone is taught the correct aqeedah directly from the Quran and Sunnah. Any amount of questions may be asked and they will be answered with clear as daylight proofs. It is also necessary for all Muslims, especially in the western countries to reject all the deviant sects which appeared amongst the Muslims.


Just what Khawarij would think.

[quote]Two common groups also need to be rebuked and rejected due to their apostasy.

Kufr Beliefs of:

Mouloodi sect.

....................................................

Tablighi Sect:

• Reject Jihad and make inkhiraaf (change) of the Quraan verses pertaining to Jihad.

• Gave Nizamudeen and Raiwind ( two manmade structures in India and Pakistan) holy status and attribute thawaab (divine reward and blessings) for visitors

• Gave Nizamudeen and Raiwind preference above the holy Haj and Umrah pilgrimage.

• Regard their Fazaail Amaal as their Quran and insist that the Quran of Islam cannot be understood or acted upon without this book. Quran of Islam is third on their list.

• They are quite pleased to live under Taghoot and firmly believe in their obedience (to Taghoot)

• You are not allowed to fight the Taghoot as it will curtail their movement.

These sects should abandon their kufr, shirk and blasphemous beliefs immediately, otherwise they will ultimately join the band of the coming Dajjal.


Lies........Lies.......Lies
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd May 2015 08:19
Salam


I managed to read both letters last night

First letter ignorant claims were made in regards to Sultan Salahudeen Ayyubi rahimullah, Mohammed Sallabee (an unbiased salafi/hambali author) has said in his biography on him which he goes into quite some depth covering all spheres of his life, that whatever steps Salahudeen took he always consulted the ulema and never took a step without consulting them and I believe it was Qadhi iyad who played a big part too during the reign of Salahudeen.

So not sure where this person who wrote letter 1 is making such ignorant claims from? He always worked in line with ulema and that's why he was love and supported, his own statement was if I wasn't a fighter I would have loved to become a scholar.


In regards to letter 2, Ciib assume he is a mufti, how so I'm not sure but the style used, the tone the language, even the knowledge is far from a mufti, I disagree it's a mufti Allah knows best. Maybe someone with some schooling through the Deobandi methodology, an alim maybe not but someone who studied a bit perhaps.

Letter 2 was a ridiculous letter which reaked of salafism and typical extreme salafi generalisations that I haven't heard in a long time. However it also kind of proved of what exactly and how to some extent is being taught in the state of the khwarij 'and that is fully fledged brain washing'.

However from a neutral perspective it (letter 2) did highlight many other important things too which are matters of concern and can be seen as double standards etc

Allah knows best

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd May 2015 08:33
True Life wrote:
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I highly doubt that to be honest that such knowledge could be picked up by merely browsing sunniforum for a few days. To me there's definitely more to it.



I agree with your second paragraph though.
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd May 2015 09:53

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It is not difficult to impersonate and appear to be from a particular sect within a few weeks at all.

It is HARAM and DECEPTION but it is entirely possible.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd May 2015 10:37
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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A possibility out of many, yes.
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd May 2015 10:57
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd May 2015 03:43
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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