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#76 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 05:58
Imran Khan's party leads a coalition government in the northwestern province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

Can someone report about what did the Imran's party deliver there. What ever promised elsewhere are those promises fulfilled there. If not what all are the constraints.
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#77 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 06:17
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People can not "rebel" against anti-islamic orders of the Government. However, they can choose not to obey the anti-islamic orders. For example, if a government orders to ban the hijab and the beard, then there is no obedience in such an order. However rebelling and revolting against the Government would still not be allowed. The Ulema can do amr bil ma'ruf and nahi unnil munkar, and the people can protest peacefully (without any fitna or bloodshed). If the government still does not listen, the people are told by the Sharia to do "sabr", and that is it.

And Imran Khan is not rebelling against the anti-islamic orders, infact, he is rebelling against the Government as a whole. How on earth can he rebel against the anti-islamic orders, when there is music and dance and women without hijab and free mixing and no salah in his dharna?

Talibaan are doing a legal and valid Jihad, against a foreign occupied force and their allies. Talibaan were originally in command, when US attacked them and toppled them with Karzai. It is a totally different story, and I shall write the details sometime later inshaAllah.

And Ool-el-amr means the rulers.
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#78 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 06:28
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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The akabireen of Deoband and Darul Uloom Karachi have had the same point of view (of khurooj and bhaghawat against the rulers) for the last 70-80 years, what has that got to do with Muslim League or Nawaz Sharif is just beyond me. Even when PPP or Musharraf were in rule, the fatwa of Khurooj still remained the same, so i failed to understand why you are trying to portray me or Darul Uloom Karachi as staunch supporters of Muslim League? Just for the record, I have never ever voted for Muslim League in my life. My view point would still remain the same even if Altaf Hussain/MQM (the party which i absolutely abhor) comes into power.

Secondly, the actions of Imam Hussain (RA) were perfectly fine and within the parameters of Sharia, and there have been books and books written on his actions. Even Hazrat Thanvi (RA), Mufti Taqi (RA) and Mufti Rizwan (RA)
the same Ulema who term it illegal to do revolt against a Government
have themselves explained the actions of Imam Hussain (RA), and you need to study A LOT more to understand it.
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#79 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 06:39
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The Ulema of Pakistan are the Ahl e Haq Alhamdolillah, and comparing them to Al-Azhar is a joke! On the topic of Jihad, Ulema e Deoband have been the major force, both on an academic level and on the battlefield. Whether it is refuting the batil sects, waging jihad against the oppressors, doing tableegh, running madaaris, doing tasawwuf, Ulema of Pakistan have been the shining light. You should do tauba for comparing them to the clean shaved scholars of Al-Azhar.

My views seem strange to you, because you have absolutely NO IDEA of the political writings of Hazrat Thanvi (RA), Mufti Shafi (RA) and Mufti Taqi Usmani (RA).

I am sorry to say this, but the knowledge of fiqh of Islam and Politics of many "deeni" people is NEXT TO ZERO.
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#80 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 06:42
I do not wish to drag the discussion. I humbly ask people to read the book in the following link.

idaraghufran.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/siyasat-wa-ha...

Specially, pages from 504 to 590 should be read. Tons of references are given, and the actions of Imam Hussain (RA) are explained.
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#81 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 11:18
Abu_Bilal wrote:
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As salamu alaikum mufti sahib,

What is a good Arabic or English book to read under that subject matter?
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#82 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 11:48
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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Wa alaykum us salam,

I am not a Mufti as of yet, still studies are going.

Actually there is no one such particular book on Politics. You can find some stuff in most of the fiqh books. However, the book by Mufti Rizwan (DB) in the above mentioned link is the most comprehensive book on the topic, with detailed analysis on modern politics and its possible scenarios, and each analysis is backed up with solid references in arabic from Hadeeth and Fiqh books.

Duas are requested.
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#83 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 12:48

Abu_Bilal wrote:
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W-Salam Mufti Saheb,

Jazakallahu Khayran Hazrat (HA), a brief summary for those who don't know Urdu.

This book is (almost) a precise replica of the material which is being produced by Saudi Ulama since 1926 to preserve the rule of “Al-Saud”, just packaged in Urdu (that’s all), so much so that the authentication of Ahadeeth is by Shaykh (Al-Albani (RA)) and not any Deobandi Scholar.

If you change the front cover and some names; it reads exactly like a standard “Saudi worshipping” Madkhali manual for submitting it to Saudi Government in the Pakistani context it is a submission to Pakistani Government.

The message is nothing new.

It emphasis points which we are already familiar with:

  1. Anarchy, disunity, vigilant’ism, activism etc is severally discouraged because it disrupts the civil society

  2. It is an Islamic obligation to obey the Government in all Shariah compliant matters

  3. It is befitting of a Muslim to avoid rebellion, withstand the oppression of the Government, rectify themselves (in action) and turn to Allah (SWT) in dua
  4. If the ruler needs direction then do so in subtle (nice, gentle manner)
  5. If the ruler completely turns away from Salah (thereby becoming Kaafir) then rebellion is permitted (with the Mushwara of Ulama)

Point four (4) is taken from the Hanbali Madhab (of course)

The only option for laymen is to voice (or even within the heart) disagree or point out errors of the Government.

All of the interpretation were done by the Salaf with “Islamically valid Khilafah system” it has been turned and applied to vote-rigged democratically elected Nawaz Shareef Government (of Pakistan). This book no doubt is an invaluable tool in Pakistan Army’s fight against TTP. The Saudi Ulama use same tactics to imprison, torture and kill those who voice disagreements against Saudi Government.

Basically the results of a democractically (rigged) election covers the elected Government with Islamic legitimacy, if they usurp your rights, oppress you tolerate it BUT the rest of the democratic processes sit-ins, protests, civil disobedience etc are NOT PERMISSABLE.  In the west people are allowed to march, demonstrate, voice their opinions, condemn a stance, draw a line in the sand against an unjust decision (poll tax, miner’s strike etc) all of those are HARAM! You vote, get Nawaz Shareef and then you simply sit there and take everything (good or bad) as your Taqdeer destined by Allah (SWT) and that’s your lot.

Saudi material in Pakistani clothing; nothing new. Google and read a standard Saudi Government worship manual by a Madkhali (in English) and you get the same thing. Madkhalees actually get this from Medieval Christianity and Christian history where the poor were oppressed and the Church told them that the KIng is a manifestation of Christ so they MUST obey them! Result: Europe ditched Christianity.

Result of this stuff:

  1. Madkhali'sm is dying (or dead)
  2. Deobandees are fast becoming irrelevant! 
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#84 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2014 13:53
Abu_Bilal wrote:
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I guess I'm at a disadvantage because I can't read Urdu....

I'll wait then, InshaAllah.
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#85 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 06:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You are a master at twisting facts, and over complicating a simple and straight forward thing. As usual, you have not responded to even ONE of the references mentioned in an academic way.

Your first lie is this that the book is "Saudi material in pakistani clothing". I shall inshaAllah try to expose this lie of yours.

From pages 504-575, following hadeeth books have been quoted:

- Bukhari (8 references)
- Muslim (10 references)
- Hakim (3 references)
- Ibn e Habban (3 references)
- Shoabal Emaan / Bayhayqi (2 references)
- Tirmizi (3 references)
- Ibn e Maja
- Abu Awaana
- Ibn e Shayba (3 references)
- Tabarani (3 references)
- Musnad Ahmad (6 references)

To explain the ahadeeth mentioned, NOT ONE SAUDI aalim has been quoted. All the ahadeeth have been explained in the light of classical Ahl e Sunna scholars, with the following references:

- Fathul Qadeer (sharh of hidaya)
- Sharh as Sunna (Imam Bhaghawi)
- Fathul Bari / Ibn e Hajr (Sharh of Bukhari)
- Faizul Qadeer
- Imam Nawwavi's Sharh Muslim
- Umdatul Qari / Aeni
- Mirqaat / Mulla Ali Qari
- Hujjatullah e Baligha
- Qadhi Ayaz

WHERE and WHEN has a Saudi aalim been quoted? Which of the interpretation has been taken from a Salafi/Saudi Aaalim?
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#86 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 06:55
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Your second lie is that the authentication of ahadeeth has been done by Al-Bani. Fear Allah! In a book of 850 pages, with thousands of references from Hadeeth and Fiqh books, the authentication of ahadeeth has been done by classical Ahl e Sunna Ulema.

Just from page 504-575, the authentication has been done by:

- Imam Haithami / Majma az Zawaid (Pg 538-539 footnootes)
- Imam Hakim
- Ibn e Habban
- Imam Ahmad
- Allama Zahbi

(Footnotes on Pg 518, 525, 535, 536, 539, etc)

On only three occasions, Al-Bani has been quoted. On the footnotes of Pg 520, 557 and 571. And on all three occasions, multiple other Ulema have been quoted, and the same hadeeth has been quoted from multiple other books. For example, Al Bani has graded a hadeeth Sahih from Ibn Abi Asim on Pg 571, and the same hadeeth has also been quoted from Sahih Muslim. So the name of Al-Bani DOES NOT MAKE AN INCH OF A DIFFERENCE. And just to clarify, these isnaad of the ahadeeth have been mentioned in response to the Ahl e Hadeeth of Pakistan, who demand the sanad for each and every hadeeth.

Instead of answering the main subject mentioned in the hadeeth, you have just managed to pick the name of Al Bani from the sanad authentication?
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#87 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 07:09
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Another of your lie is that the book is a valuable tool for Army's fight against TTP. FEAR ALLAH!! The deobandi ulema have mentioned CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY, that the aiding of Army with USA forces, and then fighting with the mujhahideen is HARAAM. Go and read my several threads on the same topic on SF, on Lal Masjid and Talibaan, etc.

Another of your lie is that the book supports the Al Saud kingdom. Just for the record, i absolutely abhor whatever the Wahabi Kingdom has done in the Haramain by destroying the sacred places, and whatever the kings and their children are doing. I have done my fair share of refutations of Salafis and Wahabis, alongwith Maulana Ilyaas Ghumman (DB). However, still your hatred for Saudis and Arabs is pretty obvious.

And lastly, the MOST IMPORTANT THING.

Was Hazrat Thanvi (RA) a salafi or a saudi? Because, he has written the EXACT SAME THING (of doing sabr and turning to Allah, if the people do not have enough power to overthrow a Fasiq government). He had written Jzlal Kalam Fi Azlil Imam and Al Bawadir An Nawadir (see footnotes from these two books, and from Hakim ul Ummah's Malfuzaat on Pg 521, 526, 528, 568, 569, 574). Was these books written to defend the Al Saud Kingdom?

Secondly, was Mufti Shafi (RA) a salafi or a saudi? Because he has written the EXACT SAME THING in Jawahir ul Fiqh (See footnotes on Pg 558). Did he write it to defend Al Saud Kingdom?

Thirdly, is Mufti Taqi Usmai (DB) a salafi or a saudi? Because he has written the EXACT SAME THING in his book Islam and Politics. Did he write it to defend Al Saud Kingdom?

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#88 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 07:17
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Last point.

The actions of Hazrat Hussain (RA) have been mentioned by the same Ulema (who term revolting against the government as Haraam) as valid and legal according to Sharia.

- Mufti Shafi (RA) in Shaheed e Karbala
- Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) in his book on Ameer Moavia (RA)
- Maulana Abul Hassan Nadwi (RA) in Al-Murtaza
- Mufti Rasheed Ahmad (RA) in Ahsan ul Fataawa

See footnotes on Pg 588-590.

Actually, i am feeling ashamed that i shared such a wonderful book, with excellent scholarly work, but it gets refuted just because it is against people's ego. I should not have posted the book, or talked about the subject in the first place.
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#89 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 09:22

Abu_Bilal wrote:
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Asslamo Allaikum Mufti Saheb (HA),

Are you done or are there any other arguments left in your defense so they can all be answered in one go?

Jazakallahu Khayran

 

 

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#90 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 09:51
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Wa alaykum us salam,

Done, and i would read your response but may not reply, since i can not do much typing and internet forums suck a lot of time too.
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