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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 10:12
Please stick to the current topic. Irrelevant posts, posts inciting a debate or disrespect towards another member will be removed without notice. Jazakumullah
Please only post relevant issues to the current topic, otherwise please start a new topic. Jazakumullah
Please maintain respect for each other and Ulamaa (if topic is about a scholar) by avoiding accusations and slanderous comments. Also remember that in order for criticism to be constructive, it must be channeled in the right direction. If there is any doubt in a matter, it is better to ask, clarify or to remain silent rather than to speak ill of another person.
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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 10:30
@Mawlana Abu Bilal: Can you please check your PM? I sent you one a few days ago. Jazak'Allah khayran.
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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 16:00
Abu_Bilal wrote:
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Jazakallah maulana sahib,

Would you happen to know any other books in Arabic or English which you can refer that covers some of what is mentioned in the above book?

I did read some of what Mufti taqi uthmani sahib wrote on the topic in his book about the sanctity of human life but it only covered some aspects.

Despite whatever differences, I appreciate you contributing here.

Jazakallah
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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 16:23

Sulaiman84 wrote:
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Absolutely, I also request duas from Mufti Saheb (HA) and appreciate his contributions.

I simply disagree with his Political Ijtehaad about Nawaz Shareef that's all.

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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd September 2014 21:28

Issue 1: Saudi Ulama discussion

Muadh Khan wrote:

This book is (almost) a precise replica of the material which is being produced by Saudi Ulama since 1926 to preserve the rule of “Al-Saud”, just packaged in Urdu (that’s all), so much so that the authentication of Ahadeeth is by Shaykh (Al-Albani (RA)) and not any Deobandi Scholar.
[/quote]

Hazrat (Mufti) Abu Bilal (HA) wrote:

You are a master at twisting facts, and over complicating a simple and straight forward thing. As usual, you have not responded to even ONE of the references mentioned in an academic way.

Your first lie is this that the book is "Saudi material in pakistani clothing". I shall inshaAllah try to expose this lie of yours.

From pages 504-575, following hadeeth books have been quoted:

- Bukhari (8 references)
- Muslim (10 references)
- Hakim (3 references)
- Ibn e Habban (3 references)
- Shoabal Emaan / Bayhayqi (2 references)
- Tirmizi (3 references)
- Ibn e Maja
- Abu Awaana
- Ibn e Shayba (3 references)
- Tabarani (3 references)
- Musnad Ahmad (6 references)

To explain the ahadeeth mentioned, NOT ONE SAUDI aalim has been quoted. All the ahadeeth have been explained in the light of classical Ahl e Sunna scholars, with the following references:

- Fathul Qadeer (sharh of hidaya)
- Sharh as Sunna (Imam Bhaghawi)
- Fathul Bari / Ibn e Hajr (Sharh of Bukhari)
- Faizul Qadeer
- Imam Nawwavi's Sharh Muslim
- Umdatul Qari / Aeni
- Mirqaat / Mulla Ali Qari
- Hujjatullah e Baligha
- Qadhi Ayaz

WHERE and WHEN has a Saudi aalim been quoted? Which of the interpretation has been taken from a Salafi/Saudi Aaalim?

[/QUOTE]

One can read this book or read ONE (of hundreds of Fatwaas of the Saudi Ulama), Shaykh Bin Baz (RA) wrote:

 سماحة الشيخ: هناك من يرى أن اقتراف بعض الحكام للمعاصي والكبائر موجب للخروج عليهم ومحاولة التغيير وإن ترتب عليه ضرر للمسلمين في البلد، والأحداث التي يعاني منها عالمنا الإسلامي كثيرة، فما رأي سماحتكم؟

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

الحمد لله رب العالمين، وصلى الله وسلم على رسول الله، وعلى آله وأصحابه، ومن اهتدى بهداه، أما بعد:

فقد قال الله عز وجل: يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا[1]، فهذه الآية نص في وجوب طاعة أولي الأمر، وهم الأمراء والعلماء، وقد جاءت السنة الصحيحة عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم تبين أن هذه الطاعة لازمة، وهي فريضة في المعروف. والنصوص من السنة تبين المعنى، وتقيد إطلاق الآية بأن المراد طاعتهم في المعروف، ويجب على المسلمين طاعة ولاة الأمور في المعروف لا في المعاصي، فإذا أمروا بالمعصية فلا يطاعون في المعصية، لكن لا يجوز الخروج عليهم بأسبابها؛ لقوله صلى الله عليه وسلم: ((ألا من ولي عليه وال فرآه يأتي شيئاً من معصية الله فليكره ما يأتي من معصية الله ولا ينزعن يداً من طاعة)) ولقوله صلى الله عليه وسلم: ((من خرج من الطاعة وفارق الجماعة فمات مات ميتة جاهلية)) وقال صلى الله عليه وسلم: ((على المرء السمع والطاعة فيما أحب وكره إلا أن يؤمر بمعصية فإن أمر بمعصية فلا سمع ولا طاعة)) وسأله الصحابة رضي الله عنهم - لما ذكر أنه يكون أمراء تعرفون منهم وتنكرون - قالوا: فما تأمرنا؟ قال: ((أدوا إليهم حقهم وسلوا الله حقكم)) قال عبادة بن الصامت رضي الله عنه بايعنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم على السمع والطاعة في منشطنا ومكرهنا وعسرنا ويسرنا وأثرة علينا وأن لا ننازع الأمر أهله، وقال: ((إلا أن تروا كفرا بواحا عندكم من الله فيه برهان))، فهذا يدل على أنه لا يجوز لهم منازعة ولاة الأمور، ولا الخروج عليهم إلا أن يروا كفراً بواحاً عندهم من الله فيه برهان؛ وما ذاك إلا لأن الخروج على ولاة الأمور يسبب فساداً كبيراً، وشراً عظيماً، فيختل به الأمن، وتضيع الحقوق، ولا يتيسر ردع الظالم، ولا نصر المظلوم، وتختل السبل ولا تأمن، فيترتب على الخروج على ولاة الأمور فساد عظيم وشر كثير، إلا إذا رأى المسلمون كفراً بواحاً عندهم من الله فيه برهان، فلا بأس أن يخرجوا على هذا السلطان لإزالته إذا كان عندهم قدرة، أما إذا لم يكن عندهم قدرة فلا يخرجوا، أو كان الخروج يسبب شراً أكثر فليس لهم الخروج رعاية للمصالح العامة. والقاعدة الشرعية المجمع عليها: (أنه لا يجوز إزالة الشر بما هو أشر منه، بل يجب درء الشر بما يزيله أو يخففه) أما درء الشر بشر أكثر فلا يجوز بإجماع المسلمين، فإذا كانت هذه الطائفة التي تريد إزالة هذا السلطان الذي فعل كفراً بواحاً عندها قدرة تزيله بها، وتضع إماماً صالحاً طيباً من دون أن يترتب على هذا فساد كبير على المسلمين، وشر أعظم من شر هذا السلطان فلا بأس، أما إذا كان الخروج يترتب عليه فساد كبير، واختلال الأمن، وظلم الناس، واغتيال من لا يستحق الاغتيال... إلى غير هذا من الفساد العظيم، فهذا لا يجوز، بل يجب الصبر، والسمع والطاعة في المعروف، ومناصحة ولاة الأمور، والدعوة لهم بالخير، والاجتهاد في تخفيف الشر وتقليله وتكثير الخير. هذا هو الطريق السوي الذي يجب أن يسلك؛ لأن في ذلك مصالح للمسلمين عامة، ولأن في ذلك تقليل الشر وتكثير الخير، ولأن في ذلك حفظ الأمن وسلامة المسلمين من شر أكثر، نسأل الله للجميع التوفيق والهداية.

 

Issue 2: Hadeeth gradation by Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) either exclusive or sole in the book

[quote= Hazrat (Mufti) Abu Bilal (HA)]

Your second lie is that the authentication of ahadeeth has been done by Al-Bani. Fear Allah! In a book of 850 pages, with thousands of references from Hadeeth and Fiqh books, the authentication of ahadeeth has been done by classical Ahl e Sunna Ulema.

Just from page 504-575, the authentication has been done by:

- Imam Haithami / Majma az Zawaid (Pg 538-539 footnootes)
- Imam Hakim
- Ibn e Habban
- Imam Ahmad
- Allama Zahbi

(Footnotes on Pg 518, 525, 535, 536, 539, etc)

On only three occasions, Al-Bani has been quoted. On the footnotes of Pg 520, 557 and 571. And on all three occasions, multiple other Ulema have been quoted, and the same hadeeth has been quoted from multiple other books. For example, Al Bani has graded a hadeeth Sahih from Ibn Abi Asim on Pg 571, and the same hadeeth has also been quoted from Sahih Muslim. So the name of Al-Bani DOES NOT MAKE AN INCH OF A DIFFERENCE. And just to clarify, these isnaad of the ahadeeth have been mentioned in response to the Ahl e Hadeeth of Pakistan, who demand the sanad for each and every hadeeth.

Instead of answering the main subject mentioned in the hadeeth, you have just managed to pick the name of Al Bani from the sanad authentication?

Method: Pages (504-555) randomly browsed in no order and no sequence, I cannot go through the whole book to make my point or through all the pages which you have listed and I hope that you understand that whether you accept these screen shots below or not...

Results: 

Issue 3: Jawahirul-Fiqh of Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (RA)

[quote= Hazrat (Mufti) Abu Bilal (HA)]

Secondly, was Mufti Shafi (RA) a salafi or a saudi? Because he has written the EXACT SAME THING in Jawahir ul Fiqh (See footnotes on Pg 558). Did he write it to defend Al Saud Kingdom?

Thirdly, is Mufti Taqi Usmai (DB) a salafi or a saudi? Because he has written the EXACT SAME THING in his book Islam and Politics. Did he write it to defend Al Saud Kingdom?

Jawahirul-Fiqh Volume 5 (Pages 439 onwards)

Explaination: What is written is actually a speech by Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (HA) given on the 24th of January 1947 at a conference of Jamiat Ulama-e-Islam.

Background: Before Pakistan and the struggle is between Hindu (congress), British (Government) and Muslim (league) presided over by Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Summary: Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (HA) makes the following points:

  1. Jihad of Hind (India) is meritorius and praiseworthy
  2. The leader of Muslims needs to be a practising person but sometimes an able person isn't the most practising
  3. Muhammad Ali Jinnah is not fully practising (and we don't claim it)
  4. But congress is 100% Hindu owned and dominated
  5. Under the circumstances (o Muslims) obey your leader participate in Jihad (to form Pakistan) and overlook the faults of your leader

How does this pre-partition speech (given 6 months before Pakistan) correspond to Nawaz Shareef in 2014???

 

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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2014 04:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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WaAllahi, i can easily answer and refute your post (since you did not answer the main subject), however i feel that my nafs is creeping in now, and takabbur leads one to hell.

I stand down. Duas requested.
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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2014 08:12
Mufti Abu Bilal it would be great service if you could translate or summarize Maulana Thanvi's view on rebellion and other political issues. There is too much ignorance in this matter and people just want to follow their nafs, but at least sincere people should have opportunity to read and accept an authentic view on this matter.
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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2014 11:56
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2014 12:04

Hazrat (Mufti) Saheb (HA),

It is a discussion so no reason to get wound up or rattled about it. Here is my point of view (you have the right to disagree):

The verses of the Qur’aan and Ahadeeth of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) are about “obedience of Ameer” and no revolting or rebelling against them, making dua for them advising them with courtesy, humility (when they are engaged in sin) and if they turn to Kuf’r (abandoning of Salah) then consult Ulama before rebelling.

All of that is well understand.

Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) considered democracy to be Kuf’r and the books of our Ulama are replete with Fatwaas as I am sure that you are no doubt familiar with.

The situation in Pakistan is unique. You have Nawaz Shareef who has been elected Prime Minister through “an aspect of western democracy” i.e. elections. You are accepting the results of this “aspect of western democracy” and thereby regarding them as “Wali-Amr” and then transposing all the rules and regulations of Shariah to him.

The following 2 things are happening as a result of your Ijtehaad:

  1. Western democracy also gives civilians rights to protest, civil disobedience etc. This is preserved in the UN Charter for human rights. You are disregarding this entirely and saying that it’s not permissible.
  2. You are not giving any solution as to how to address this situation except a spiritual solution (fully acceptable to me) that people should turn to Allah (SWT) and repent but not acceptable to majority.

This splits the population into five groups:

  1. First group is the one which is basically sick and tired of what’s happening to them and revert to vigilantism (burning buses, riots etc) and basically venting and ranting!
  2. Second group is the one who say that (Western) democracy gave this system so lets try using the other institutes of the country to counter balance; these institutes are in poor shape and cannot provide the counter balance
  3. Third group is the one which clearly knows that since Democracy is Ku’fr so is the fruits and they don’t recognise any authority or Government thereby and these are TTP like minded.
  4. Fourth group is “Tableeghees” minded pacifists etc who have no interest in the apparent conditions of the Ummah and they indeed concur with you.
  5. Fifth group are also Islamically minded who are looking to Ulama (reading what you are saying) and clearly rejecting it! They are also disillusioned with Islamic parties and Maulana Fazlur-Rahman (HA) and others but may have a soft corner for Imran Khan (because he is the least evil at the moment). Imran Khan is no Messiah for Pakistan (that’s for sure) but he is (according to them) the best hope.

Nobody is contesting your sincerity or your efforts but your conclusions are boxing the people into frustration.

When you discuss our Akabir (of the past) then they led from the front! Whether it was Shaykhul-Islam (RA) or Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (RA) the problem with present generation of Ulama is that they don’t lead from the front but issues Academic Fatwaas (which are not only far from reality but also strange in conclusions). Yes our Akabir had differences of opinion (Pakistan vs India) but they led from the front and their sincerity, devotion and character was never in doubt. Today, overwhelming majority of Pakistanees have no trust in sincerity, devotion or character of Ulama like Maulana Fazlur-Rahman (HA); whether you deny it or not but it is the reality.

Shaykh (Mufti) Rafi Usmani (HA) and Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) are not in politics.

The most significant (and extentual) involvement of Ulama is with Khatm-e-Nabuwaat (and that’s about it).

In India our Ulama belong to so many parties that laymen can no longer tell what’s what and which way the wind is blowing.

There is no coherent discussion or strategy or plan from Ulama (about Pakistan) at all! Apart from make Taub’a and make dua (this is genuine) but if making Taubah and making dua (ONLY) solved problems then Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) would have simply employed this tactic.

The conclusion which you draw from this is that I am some sort of a Modernist/Atheist/Secularist who is dismissing the effects of sin and forgiveness from Allah (SWT) through Tauba which I am clearly not.

You may also conclude that I am against Ulama.

Both of these conclusions will be incorrect but you live in a free country and free to do as you please.

The simple point is that you are applying Ijtehaad and equating Nawaz Shareef Government to a legitimate Islamic Government (although admitting faults and shortcomings because they are so obvious that even you can’t overlook them) but you are not admitting this as an Ijtehaad and you are frustrated that a “Mufti” has written a 700 page book so how dare some novice dismiss it! The Saudi Ulama have been doing this since 1926 and producing very similar material to defend their Government. 

I am not asking that you or other Ulama are specifically backing Nawaz Shareef or Imran Khan or anyone else (specifically) but your conclusions quash rebellion against any ruler; if Parvaiz Musharraf was a democratically elected leader (now) then your conclusion would be backing him and his Government up.

Before ending, again for the 3rd/4th time I am not questioning your sincerity or that you are deliberately backing any one (group) but questioning your “political Ijtehaad” which is accepting parts of western democracy but dismissing other parts (i.e. protests, sit-ins, demonstrations etc.) as rebellion. If a leader is "elected" through a system then the same system also puts "safeguards" in place to dismiss them. You are accepting a leader through "demoracy" and then placing them with the rights of "Khaleefah" or "Walial-Amr'" thereby dismissing any disagreement (by terming that as rebellion).

It is not possible to make this any clearer in plain English.

Jazakallahu Khayran

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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 24th September 2014 23:20
This is not truly an issue of Baghawat against an Ameer.

1.Nawaz Shareef is NOT and Ameer, he is just a prime minister coming out of the current Anglo-saxon system of democracy. Infact he is breaking the laws, because the public does not want him to be the prime minister and he with the use of power and influence has made himself.

2. Imran khan is doing a peaceful demonstration against this, which is part of the system and allowed in democracy. The Supreme Court of Pakistan has clearly given verdict that this "dharna" is allowed and the right of people of Pakistan.

3.Nawaz Shareef and the rest of parliament are corrupt, and looting the people, hence, it is the right of people of Pakistan to fix this situation, because Nawaz Shareef again is NOT an ameer, but merely a corruptly elected prime minister in this Anglo-saxon system of parliament and democracy.

4.If anything, who is really an Ameer, than that Ameer would be the constitution of Pakistan and the current Anglo-saxon system. In Legal sense bhaghawat against this would be considered a baghawat. Nawaz Shareef is just another corrupt player in the system.

Etc
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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 06:05
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Hazrat (Mufti) Saheb (HA) has every reason to get wound up. I don't think anyone would have a problem with you disagreeing. But as seems to be a habit of yours, when you make up lies and exaggerations to 'prove' your point, then you certainly are deserving of rebuke and perhaps disciplinary action.

For example when you say in that book "the authentication of Ahadeeth is by Shaykh (Al-Albani (RA)) and not any Deobandi Scholar.", it gives clear impression that in general the ahadeeth found in the book are authenticated by al-albani. Hazrat (Mufti) Saheb (HA) claims that this is a lie and he indicates that al-albani is mentioned very few times in a book of hundreds of pages.

I am inclined to take Hazrat (Mufti) Saheb's (HA) word for it but it would be good if some neutral brother who can read Urdu verify who is telling the truth here.
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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 06:05
We are watching this across the border. But some questions are not answered here.

Quote:
Infact he is breaking the laws, because the public does not want him to be the prime minister and he with the use of power and influence has made himself.
[/quote]

Does the majority of the public does not want Nawaz to be PM? Rather the opposition doesn't want him, but opposition don't have the numbers thats is the reason they are in opposition.

[quote]Imran khan is doing a peaceful demonstration against this, which is part of the system and allowed in democracy. The Supreme Court of Pakistan has clearly given verdict that this "dharna" is allowed and the right of people of Pakistan.


He has all the right to do dharna, protests etc. But in democracy there is a forum and platform where he has to prove the charges. He can't deliver justice just because he has a small mob behind him. If the other person brings a bigger mob and demands arrest of Imran and his party leaders, that is invalid.
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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 07:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Assalamu Alaykum,

Lol, i am not at all wound up or rattled. Actually, while delivering a lecture or answering an audience, it is far easier to respond. While on a forum, i actually find it tiring to write long paragraphs. Anyways, i shall write some brief answers, otherwise i can be contacted through the Darul Ifta address for more details.

1. Firstly, you didn't answer my previous questions at all
except for Mufti Shafi's view (on which i strongly disagree with you) and for Al-Bani (which i again disagree, because firstly he has been quoted very few times, and secondly he has been quoted on some ahadeeth where the salafis differ, so he has been quoted to weigh up the answer, and thirdly even if he has been quoted it does not make ANY difference since the same ahadeeth have been mentioned from other hadeeth books with authentications of classical scholars like Allama Zahbi, etc)
.

2. According to Darul Uloom Karachi, Darul Uloom Deoband, Jamiatur Rasheed, etc, and according to Mufti Taqi (DB), Mufti Shafi (RA), Ulema of Binnori Town, Khairul Madaaris, Jamia Ashrafia,
in short, according to almost all akabireen of Deoband
, a leader which comes into power through Democratic votes in Pakistan is a VALID and LEGAL ruler according to sharia. And the ahaadeeth about obeying the rules also refer to him. You need to learn and read a LOT MORE to understand this issue. I shall write briefly some points

- First learn what is Usool e Fiqh (read tauzeeh o talveeh or noorul anwaar), and understand how a hadeeth from 1400 hundred years back about rulers is being applied to the rulers of today, by the fuqaha and muhadditheen.
- Secondly, in numerous ahaadeeth, the sentence comes Yakoonu fi akhiruz zamaan (i.e, there would be rulers in the last times, or times near to day of judgement). It is WELL UNDERSTOOD, that these times are infact the times of fitan and the time near to Qayama, and in these pur-fitan times there would be Fisq and Fujoor, until Hazrat Esa (RA) arrives and implements khilafat. It is such a basic thing, that i find it hard that you are unable to understand it. And if you deny it, then you are denying all the akabireen of deoband COMBINED.
- Thirdly, the democracy of Pakistan is NOT KUFR, like western democracy. In Pakistan, the laws have to be made within the limits of Sharia, and one just can not make any new law against the sharia, even if the majority votes in its favor. The qarar dad e makaasid is clear on it. Therefore, the leader elected through this system is different to the one elected in the UK or USA. However, still the present democratic setup is not an ideal islamic system with lots of flaws, and only Khilafaat is a true islamic system.

3. The issue is only the current tactics of Imran Khan. Otherwise, he is still the best, capable, honest leader of the current lot. Nawaz Sharif, Zardari, Maulana Fazl ur Rehman (DB), ALL have failed. Being a staunch and hardcore deobandi, still i have been utterly disappointed by Maulana Fazl ur Rehman (DB).

4. I have presented a solution, in my previous posts, in all the links and books. The Ulema have proposed a very valid and fine solution to get out of this mess. And i won't repeat it.

5. If a fatwa of Pakistani Ulema coincides with a fatwa of Bin Baz (RA) or a Albani or a Saudi Alim, WHY DOES ALL HELL BREAK LOOSE? What difference does it make? Why is there so much hatred and anger in you for Saudi Ulema? Fair enough, they have done a lot of mistakes, but you seem to line them up with Qadayanis or Shias, so much so that even if a fatwa of theirs is the same as a fatwa of Pakistani aalim, you just can't bear it? There are thousands of things on which the Pakistani and Saudi Ulema agree, and there are things on which the two parties do not agree. If, on the issue of rebellion, both parties agree, does it imply that the Pakistani Ulema have now also become boot lickers of the goverment? Your logic is mind boggling.

That's it. Duas requested.
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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 07:46
ahamed_sharif wrote:
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Brother looks like you are very behind in your information regarding this issue....the majority of Pakistan public does not give 2 cents about Nawaz and his likes.....The rigging of the elections has been proven, the government is running away and blocking the actual procedure related to this, but the fraud has been proven , hence nawaz is having a run for his life.....
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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 07:50
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Assalamu Alaykum,

Lol, i am not at all wound up or rattled. Actually, while delivering a lecture or answering an audience, it is far easier to respond. While on a forum, i actually find it tiring to write long paragraphs. Anyways, i shall write some brief answers, otherwise i can be contacted through the Darul Ifta address for more details.

1. Firstly, you didn't answer my previous questions at all
except for Mufti Shafi's view (on which i strongly disagree with you) and for Al-Bani (which i again disagree, because firstly he has been quoted very few times, and secondly he has been quoted on some ahadeeth where the salafis differ, so he has been quoted to weigh up the answer, and thirdly even if he has been quoted it does not make ANY difference since the same ahadeeth have been mentioned from other hadeeth books with authentications of classical scholars like Allama Zahbi, etc)
.

2. According to Darul Uloom Karachi, Darul Uloom Deoband, Jamiatur Rasheed, etc, and according to Hazrat Thanvi (RA), Mufti Taqi (DB), Mufti Shafi (RA), Ulema of Binnori Town, Khairul Madaaris, Jamia Ashrafia,
in short, according to almost all akabireen of Deoband
, a leader which comes into power through Democratic votes in Pakistan is a VALID and LEGAL ruler according to sharia. And the ahaadeeth about obeying the rulers also refer to him. You need to learn and read a LOT MORE to understand this issue. I shall write briefly some points

- First learn what is Usool e Fiqh (read tauzeeh o talveeh or noorul anwaar), and understand how a hadeeth from 1400 hundred years back about rulers is being applied to the rulers of today, by the fuqaha and muhadditheen.
- Secondly, in numerous ahaadeeth, the sentence comes Yakoonu fi akhiruz zamaan (i.e, there would be rulers in the last times, or times near to day of judgement). It is WELL UNDERSTOOD, that these times are infact the times of fitan and the time near to Qayama, and in these pur-fitan times there would be Fisq and Fujoor, until Hazrat Esa (RA) arrives and implements khilafat. It is such a basic thing, that i find it hard that you are unable to understand it. And if you deny it, then you are denying all the akabireen of deoband COMBINED.
- Thirdly, the democracy of Pakistan is NOT KUFR, like western democracy. In Pakistan, the laws have to be made within the limits of Sharia, and one just can not make any new law against the sharia, even if the majority votes in its favor. The qarar dad e makaasid is clear on it. Therefore, the leader elected through this system is different to the one elected in the UK or USA. However, still the present democratic setup is not an ideal islamic system with lots of flaws, and only Khilafaat is a true islamic system.

3. The issue is only the current tactics of Imran Khan. Otherwise, he is still the best, capable, honest leader of the current lot. Nawaz Sharif, Zardari, Maulana Fazl ur Rehman (DB), ALL have failed. Being a staunch and hardcore deobandi, still i have been utterly disappointed by Maulana Fazl ur Rehman (DB).

4. I have presented a solution, in my previous posts, in all the links and books. The Ulema have proposed a very valid and fine solution to get out of this mess. And i won't repeat it.

5. If a fatwa of Pakistani Ulema coincides with a fatwa of Bin Baz (RA) or a Albani or a Saudi Alim, WHY DOES ALL HELL BREAK LOOSE? What difference does it make? Why is there so much hatred and anger in you for Saudi Ulema? Fair enough, they have done a lot of mistakes, but you seem to line them up with Qadayanis or Shias, so much so that even if a fatwa of theirs is the same as a fatwa of Pakistani aalim, you just can't bear it? There are thousands of things on which the Pakistani and Saudi Ulema agree, and there are things on which the two parties do not agree. If, on the issue of rebellion, both parties agree, does it imply that the Pakistani Ulema have now also become boot lickers of the goverment? Your logic is mind boggling.

That's it. Duas requested.
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