Question to those Linked to a Shaykh

Unspecified

112

Brother

-128

#16 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 08:20

Concerned wrote:

View original post

As salaam alaii kumm,

Deobandi Ulamahs frequently quoting zaeef hadiths is a notion spread by the La Madhabis, this is one of their's nice simple dirty old trick. They have made it so popular that anything from Deoband is zaeef (weak).

For ex., I had a close relative of mine visit me and I showed him my small collection of books, he didn't touch them, he did not even see them (titles) and in less than a minute, said "bro you buy books from so and so publishing house, all their books quote strong Hadiths, don't read these" he was aware that I was pro (India) Deoband. This relative was frequenting Al Maghrib, his zaahir is not of a Muslim, I don't know of his baatin, and after some time, he was talking against another book. May Allah ta'ala guide him. Aameen. (His behavior when he saw the books was like as if he saw snakes in the zoo, he saw them and instantly stepped back as if there was an open manhole)

Point: The laymen are being brainwashed, a lie is being spread by the Ghair Muqallids.

And even if we accept that Deoband ulamah's frequently quote zaeef (or fabricated) Ahadiths, yet relatively there is more good happening through them then the strong Hadiths (acc. to them only) quoting La Madhabis.

I'm sorry for sounding aggressive.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Disagree x 1

http://www.theijtema.com - Because I Love To Waste Your Time®

Unspecified

418

Brother

201

#17 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 08:50

Saheb wrote:

View original post

Was-salaam,

Hope you are well.

What do we say in the case, as mentioned by the Guest poster, when we hear ourselves (Deobandi and/or Tablighi) 'Ulama quoting either weak or fabricated ahadith and this has been verified as such by Ulama who are experts in the field such as Mawlana Muhammad Abbasumar of HadithAnswers?

It has actually nothing to do with Salafis or Ghayr Muqallids, although it might be a common trait amongst some of them as you have explained.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

hayatalulama.wordpress.com

How to deal with adversaries: From the life of the ulama of Deoband

#18 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 09:32

This is a common problem. The issues lies in the syllabus where preference is given to a lot of fiqh at the expense of hadeeth. Students study the 6 books thousands of hadeeth in 1 year. Their exposure to hadeeth is very less in comparison to somebody who specializes in the field. At the same time the OP should not base his judgement of a shaykh on the weakness of the ahadeeth he narrates. So the problem is not exclusive to the shaykh and you should not lose confidence in him. The grading of hadeeth is very complex. What I find absolutely shocking is that many of our ulema do not even reference their hadeeth when writing books or cite something like kanzul ummal/mishkaat. There is a problem for sure and this is why whenever I come across young students I advise them to specialize in hadeeth. There is a great need. Darse e nizami grads need to do a 4-5 year specialization in hadeeth so this issue is rectified.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

11,901

Brother

342

#19 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 09:52

There is nothing wrong with quoting weak narrations for virtues
If a person quotes a fabrication in error or on the authority of another Scholar who doesn't deem it as fabrication then that isn't really an error
The error is knowingly and deliberately quoting fabrications without clearly stating that its a fabrication

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Like x 1

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#20 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 09:59

The problem muadh is a lot of scholars have no clue when it comes to the grading of hadeeth. I mean would you agree that blindly quoting mishkat/kanzul ummal is very wrong and not referencing hadeeth in one’s written work is not the best thing to do? I mean if they actually relied on somebody like ibn hajar rh etc then who can object but do you think the thought passes their mind? I mean the respected mufti who quoted from qadi iyadh’s ash-shifa did a whole series of many hours on the fabrication. Surely before doing that the least the mufti could have done is find the source of the hadeeth i.e. even a total idiot like myself knows ash-shifa is not a book for hadeeth references instead of focusing a whole series on a fabricated hadeeth?

report post quote code quick quote reply

+3 -0Like x 3

london786

11,901

Brother

342

#21 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 10:05

london786 wrote:

View original post

You have a website in UK where a leading Mufti is giving answers based on books of Sufi Mashaykh! These answers are being quoted here and frequently on SF, what can you do?

I went to another Mufti and showed it to him on his laptop he was speechless!

What can you do with this level of Academic standards? If you warn the laymen they start hating and absuing you because they are too ignorant to do basic research themselves.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 1Winner x 1

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

#22 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 10:46

Saheb wrote:

View original post

With all due respect, if anyone is brainwashed it would have to be you. I gave examples I witnessed just in the last 2 months of Deobandi Ulama quoting ahadith that are deemed fabricated / extremely weak by other Deobandi Ulama. This is not about using weak ahadith which are suitable to quote, but ones that are too weak to quote.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Like x 1

#23 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 10:48

Muadh_Khan wrote:

View original post

Thats like in the example I gave. The host Alim insisted that since the guest Mufti referenced the hadith, It could not be fabricatd! BTW the reference was the Mathnawi of Ml Rumi!

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Like x 1

#24 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 11:20

I do not see the reason to go on the defensive or blain the ghair muqalids. Just because ghair muqalids also reject the weak hadith which are suitable to quote, does that give others license to quote any and everything? This is the point I made about going on the defensive. Years ago I heard an Aalim quoted the narration about the man who worshipped Allah for 500 years and then insisted he enters paradise due to his worship. I mentioned to the Aalim that I read that this hadith is deemed extremely weak or fabricated ( by Mufti Husain Kadodia on sunniforum), and again the response was to go on the defensive by saying: " I have heard my Shaykh quote this many times, it cant be fabricated, and then goes on to explain that weak hadiths are allowed to be used etc." If an objection is made why does everyone assume the narration can not be fabricated or too weak without doing the research .Are certain ulama infaliable?

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Winner x 1

#25 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 11:21

The above post was by Concerned, I forgot to put my name

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Unspecified

620

Sister

202

#26 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 11:22

ahamed_sharif wrote:

View original post

Quote:

Kindly note that a single hadeeth is graded differently by muhadditeen. And there are good number of muhadditeen. The source of the shaykh for the quoted hadeeth may grade
it as dhaeef or hasan

Brother if a great scholar of Hadith graded a Hadith to be dhaeef or hasan, but it is later proven to not be so long and the Hadith is actually fabricated, then what would be a cautious approach to adopt because of seriousness of lying about the Prophet (s.a.w.)

? Should the person still keep quoting the Hadith?
Though I do not see any harm in stating that the scholar saw it to be dhaeef or hasan whilst adding why it is later proven to be a fabrication, especially if this is for the purpose of teaching others.

Wassalam.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Maria al-Qibtiyya

Unspecified

271

Brother

235

#27 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 11:55

When reading bhai Concerned's post, these were my thoughts....I'll write them down so more knowledgable brothers can correct me if I'm wrong...

If one can accept the fact that Ulama of the past would (perhaps mistakenly) narrate ahadeeth that were extremely weak and fabricated accorded to some scholars, they why can't we cut some slack for these lesser Ulama in our time?
If you're okay with Hazrat Maulana Zakariya (rahimahullah),who is known as the Shaykhul-Hadeeth, quoting ahadeeth in Fazail-e-A'maal which may be fabricated, then why castigate Ulama who aren't experts in Hadith sciences?
It's seems (to me at least) that they are sincere and don't mean to quote very weak or fabricated ahadeeth. Not every scholar is an expert like Maulana Abbasoomar, Mufti Kadodia or Maulana Fazlur-rahman Azmi.

My issue is when an Alim knows the narration is probably concocted and still insists on mentioning it in bayans without telling the congregation about it's weakness.....and there are a few Deobandi Ulama that do this. Mufti Husain Kadodia, in a thread on SF, even took one such Alim by name and mentioned an example of how Maulana Saheb must have known the weakness of a certain narration and yet still said it in the bayan...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but this is actually away from OP's objective. Some senior khanqahi brothers should tell us how to preserve aqeedat in one's Shaykh when you are unable to see eye to eye with the Shaykh on some issue...I am eagerly waiting for these responses.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

"We prick our fingers and we want our names to be amongst those of the Shuhada" - Maulana Talha Khandelwi hafizahullah

Unspecified

2,891

Brother

279

#28 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 13:11

kanzoorbhai wrote:

View original post

السلام عليكم

I know brothers who actually do this, but to do this you have to be quite knowledgeable yourself. Basically you have to know where to draw the line and at the same time be hush about it in the mureed circles etc because if you don't then it can be severely detrimental for you in many ways.

You can still benefit from a Shaykhs company, the adkhaar/wird he gives you and in which quantity and what other spiritual training exercises he might put you through etc, When it comes to narrations that you consider weak/fabricated etc then you listen with all due respect but leave them on the side and at the end of it say Walahu'Alam ( Allah knows best ) because if you start keeping things in your heart about the shaykh then trust me you won't be benefitting, and this way is the best way to go about it in my humble opinion.

A mates mate is a mureed of Shaykh Nuh Keller and he's quite higher up as well and an old mureed, but this guy undercover is also a hardcore tableeghi and despite his shaykh's reservances against tableegh he still goes out in the path of Allah, obviously he keeps it hush. Point is he benefits in other aspects and the points he don't agree on he stay's quiet and say's Walahu'Alam

Best way to go about it in my opinion and I know many brothers who do the same.

The rest Allah knows best

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1

Jinn

Unspecified

1,225

Brother

125

#29 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 13:12

Concerned wrote:

View original post

Asalamualaikum brother.

What, I always wonder is, although it's fine to quote weak narrations for encouragement to do good deeds, I feel many Deoband scholars overuse and over-reply on them. What, I've always wondered and where I agree with a few Salafi critics is why not resort to and use sahih narrations instead for a change?

Maulana Tariq Jameel once quoted the Hadith where when Adam (AS) was having his nikah done with Hawa' (AS), he was instructed/suggested by Allah to send durood on Mohammed (SAW), which will make up for lack of mahar. According to the scholar(s) at hadithanswers this narration is chainless.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1

Imam Ali

Unspecified

1,225

Brother

125

Question to those Linked to a Shaykh

Font Size

Font Weight