Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Question to those Linked to a Shaykh

You have contributed 19.4% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
Maria al-Qibtiyya, abu mohammed
Rank Image
True Life's avatar
Germany
481
Brother
1,718
True Life's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 13:38
A question for those bay'at to a Shaykh crossed my mind. Please keep the discussion practical. What do you do when the Shaykh you're linked to (frequently) quotes a certain Hadith and you later on find out that the Hadith is fabricated? How do you prevent losing 'aqeedat of your Shaykh? This is a genuine question, so please avoid getting this thread closed. Jazak'Allah khayran.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ahamed_sharif's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
206
Unspecified
85
ahamed_sharif's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 13:44

Assalamu alaykum

 

Maudhoo is the technical term for fabricated hadeeth.

 

For gair muqallideen all non-saheeh ahadith are fabricated. 

 

Which one are you quoting.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Old x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Taalibah's avatar
Unspecified
7,126
Sister
834
Taalibah's avatar
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 13:47
True Life wrote:
View original post

If you are connected to a shaykh then you must be free to ask directly regarding the hadeeth right?
report post quote code quick quote reply
+4 -0Like x 4Agree x 2
back to top
Rank Image
True Life's avatar
Germany
481
Brother
1,718
True Life's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 14:43
Taalibah wrote:
View original post
Well, would the Shaykh not feel offended by a Murid telling him he used a fabricated Hadith? Especially when he has based a whole series of talks on such a narration?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Tafseer's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
110
Brother
49
Tafseer's avatar
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 14:46

True Life wrote:
View original post

Assalamu alaikum,

Quoting a fabricated Hadith, though an offence, is not equivalent to fabricating a Hadith. The Shaykh in question may be relying on some of his elders who may have recorded or narrated the hadith without its source. Hence, on the authority of his teachers may be narrating aHadith which may be fabricated.

The appropriate thing in such a situation would be to politey approach the shaykh and put one's concerns regarding the strength of the narration. For eg: Say to the shaykh 'Some people have cast doubts in me regarding the narration ............ I'm extremely perturbed and would like you to help me in alleviating the doubts.' One most not entertain any doubts regarding his shaykh until things are sorted out.

Caution: No sane Muslim who has fear of Allah and follows the sunnah would fabricate a Hadith. Further, a shaykh or an alim is a human like you and me and can definitely err. The Pious Elders have written that it is not a sign of a Wali to not err, rather a Wali does not remain on error once he is cautioned. With sincere taubah the Wali of Allah reaches more greater heights in the closeness of Allah than before.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+3 -0Like x 2Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Taalibah's avatar
Unspecified
7,126
Sister
834
Taalibah's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 14:55
True Life wrote:
View original post

A shaykh is also a mentor, teacher and guide there is nothing incorrect about having a hadeeth clarified. Otherwise it is pointless having a shaykh if you cannot derive deeni, spiritual or Islamic knowledge clarified by asking questions. A teacher expects a student to ask questions, as even he knows each person has a different level of understanding and comprehension.

Their would be a serious flaw in the intention of the connection to a shaykh if their is no transparency and freedom to ask and learn.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
ahamed_sharif's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
206
Unspecified
85
ahamed_sharif's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 14:57
Tafseer wrote:
View original post


Assalamu alaykum

Also one more precaution, the concern is, it is imaan threatening. Like the gair muqallids deceive ordinary muslims saying, your imam uses dhaeef/fabricated hadeeth etc and try to distance a person from the Imam. Similarly shaytan may be using a person whose real intention is not about dhaeef or saheeh, his intentions is to break the relation between the shaykh and the mureed. So if you are not able to convey your concern to your shaykh, authenticate it from a reliable source. If not convinced, write him a letter about the concern. Kindly note that a single hadeeth is graded differently by muhadditeen. And there are good number of muhadditeen. The source of the shaykh for the quoted hadeeth may grade it as dhaeef or hasan.

Wallahu Aalam
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
True Life's avatar
Germany
481
Brother
1,718
True Life's avatar
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 15:10
Jazak'Allah khayran. That was helpful. If you want to add on to this then please don't hesitate. Has anyone ever been through such a situation?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Tafseer's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
110
Brother
49
Tafseer's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 15:25
True Life wrote:
View original post


Can the narration under question be posted?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
True Life's avatar
Germany
481
Brother
1,718
True Life's avatar
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 15:44
Tafseer wrote:
View original post
I'm not bay'at to anyone but it happened many times to me when feeling inclined to a Shaykh, them using fabricated Ahadith, and thus getting disappointed.

Last time I came across the following Hadith mentioned in Qadhi Iyadh's "ash-Shifa":

المعرفة رأسمالي، والعقل أصل ديني، والحب أساسي، والشوق مركبي، وذِكْر الله أنيسي، والثقة كَنْزي، والحزن رفيقي، والعلم سلاحي، والصبر ردائي، والرضا غنيمتي، والزُهد حرفتي، واليقين قوَّتي، والصدق شفيعي، والطاعة حَسْبي، والجهاد خلقي، وجعلت قرة عيني في الصلاة

I think it's also mentioned by Imam Ghazali in his "Ihya ul-'Uloom".

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,901
Brother
342
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 17:04
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 02:18
I hope people do not take this as disrespect to the Ulama.

From what I have observed it seems that there is a problem of fabricated/extremely weak narrations constantly being mentioned by Deobandi Ulama ( I am unaware of the situation of other ulama) in their bayans, and no one says anything about it.

Now I know there may be different opinions on the status of ahadtih, but the problem I have is that such narrations are quoted over and over and by all levels uf Ulama whether they are Shaikhul Hadith, Principal of the Darul Uloom, Shaikh of Tasawuf, or a 'regular Maulana'.

The narrations I am speaking about are not those considered extremely weak by salafis, rather other Deobandi Ulama ( Like those on Hadithanswers and askimam etc) also view the narrations as too weak or fabricated.

And if a layman like me can easily find out from Authentic (Deobandi )Sources (albeit online) that a hadith should not be quoted, then why are so many ulama across the board quoting such ahadith as if they are sahih, saying with certainity and emotion that Allah said this..... or the Rasul (salalahu Alayhi Wasalam) said this...., and give no indication of its weakness.

The problem I find is that, for the most part when this is brought to the attention of the Ulama, they automatically go on the defensive. For example one well known Mufti mentioned a narration (from Maulana Rumi) in a bayan which is deemed fabricated by hadithanswers, and when I mentioned this to the host, he immediately said the Mufti gave the source of the narration so how can it be fabricated. Then he drifted into the topic of taqleed and said we can't question everything and said when we buy a car we accept the manual as it is and people dont understand the criteria purpose of Bukhari etc.

I will give an example of how widespread this is. Over the last couple months, alhamdulilah, I attended a Madrasah Jalsa organized by Maulanas, A bayan by a well known Principal of a Darul Uloom in the UK, a Nikkah conducted by an Maulana, an Eid Khutba delivered by a Maulana, a bayan by a very well known Mufti and Shaikul Hadith from India and a Jumma Bayan by a famous Shaikhul Hadith from UK.

These are the narrations I heard in those 6 events, one in each:

1)a bedouin once came to the prophet saw and asked around 25 questions e.g i want to be rich? i want to be the most knowledgable? etc ------ fabricated according to Mufti Husain Kadodia on Sunniforum

2)Bilal Ra could not pronounce sheen properly ----- fabricated according to hadithanswers
3) Story in which Umar, radi Allhu anhu, said that he tolerated the excesses of his wife for she had certain rights against him. He said, "Is it not true that she prepares food for me, washes clothes for me and suckles my children, thus saving me the expense of employing a cook, a washerwoman and a nurse, though she is not legally obliged in any way to do any of these things? Besides, I enjoy peace of mind because of her and am kept away from indecent acts on account of her. I therefore tolerate all her excesses on account of these benefits. It is right that you should also adopt the same attitude."--- No chain of ……according to islamweb
4)The story of the lady who was carrying some bags and unknown to her the Rasul (salalahu Alayhi Wasalam) assisted her, and she criticized the Rasul (salalahu Alayhi Wasalam) the entire way home, until he disclosed who he was and then she accepted Islam.------- No source for this narration according to Hadithanswers

5)If a person looks at his parents with love and affection, he gets the reward of a Maqbool (accepted) Nafl Hajj .----- authenticity Very strongly criticized according to hadithanswers. Aaccording to askimam all these narrations are extremely weak. In fact, Allāmah Suyuti and Allāmah Ibn ‘Arrāq have classified it as a fabrication.
6)performing Jummah Salah with a turban is seventy times more rewarding. -------Unauthentic / fabricated according to hadithanswers. To be fair the alim gave the source and mumbled something about daef, but he was speaking in english and did not clarify properly.

Again even if there are differences of opinion regarding the narrations, the fact that it happens over and over again across the board (in this case within 2 months)regarding EXTREMELY WEAK narrations is worrying. Also aren't the Ulama supposed to mention if a hadith is weak when quoting them?
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Disagree x 1Winner x 3
back to top
Rank Image
Maria al-Qibtiyya's avatar
Unspecified
620
Sister
202
Maria al-Qibtiyya's avatar
#13 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 04:55
Tafseer wrote:
View original post


Quote:
Quoting a fabricated Hadith, though an offence, is not equivalent to fabricating a Hadith.


If the person knows what is claimed to be Hadith, is in fact a fabrication, yet tries to pass it off without making it apparent that it is not a Hadith, rather a fabrication, then wouldn't this be ascribing a lie upon Rasulullah (s.a.w.) ? And the seriousness of lying about the Prophet (s.a.w.) and ascribing things to him which he did not say is described in the following (authentic) Hadith:

مَنْ كَذَبَ عَلَىَّ فَلْيَتَبَوَّأْ مَقْعَدَهُ مِنَ النَّارِ
"Whosoever lies against me then let him take his seat in the Hellfire" [Bukhari 107]

So what is the difference between fabricating a Hadith and quoting a fabricated Hadith?

Wassalam.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
muslim11's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
690
Sister
612
muslim11's avatar
#14 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 05:11
What's the difference between serving some one's cook food and cooking food yourself and serving it?
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
ahamed_sharif's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
206
Unspecified
85
ahamed_sharif's avatar
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 07:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


Assalamu alaykum

Hazrath; The replies to many of my earlier posts indicate that you don't read my posts completely; Kindly Read my earlier post on this thread again.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top