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Arabs are beyond criticisms!

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 02:46
Brother, I do not know how to put it without you feeling offended, so please forgive me in advance. But the least that you should be worried about is how to refute them. If you want to effectively exchange ideas with other thinking people, then you should change your approach first... Because at least the approach I can sense from your posts here makes me imagine that none of them will lend you an open ear.

Example: "My encounters were with Tablighees who stay several kilometres away from internet (some uses for official purposes, perhaps it's Halal to use internet for official works, but Haram to visit Islamic sites!)."

Every unbiased reader will sense some sort of "malice" (hope the word is not too strong... English is not my first language) towards these brothers. Which also manifests itself in the fact that you don't seek for a clarification of their claim but rather for a refutation. So, I can imagine that your discussions with such a quite prejudiced mindset will be very fruitless. I understand that your only desire is to raise awareness and concern for the recent plight of the Ummah, but one of the most important things our Ummah needs right now is unity and it begins with each one of ourselves. So, if you want to do the Ummah a favour learn how to deal with people compassionately and without prejudices although they might be of a different opinion, or even ignorant.

"A man convinced against his will: Is of the same opinion still." - Dale Carnegie (and others)

It doesn't mean I'm saying criticising Arabs is wrong, I share your sentiments and that of Muadh Khan above... But I think you'll have to find another way to successfully engage with others... Again I did not want to offend you, but just had to get this off my chest... and yes, no one asked me for my unqualified psychological analysis... Sorry... (you can hit the dislike button now ;-p)

Addition: The problem by the way is not caused by the distortion of any laymen, but the impression that Arabs can not be criticised and have to be respected unconditionally has been caused by narrations found in classical Hadith works, like these:

أُحِبُّوا العَرَب لِثَلَاثٍ لِأَنِّي عَرَبِي وَالقُرآن عَرَبِي وَلِسَانُ أَهْلِ الجَنَّةِ عَرَبَي
حب العرب إيمان و بغضهم نفاق

Although most of these have been classed as extremely weak and by some even as fabricated, there exist dozens of narrations in the Kitabs with this notion. And even if these narrations would be accepted, one was to clearly differentiate between the Arabs living today... especially their leaders.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 03:35
True Life wrote:
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Hadhrat, Alhamdulillaah I show good behaviour with others even in case of extreme disagreement. But I don't let the Haqq disappear in the guise of "Hikmah". I try to be very polite yet academic while answering strange claims.

Call it malice or not, do you personally believe it acceptable not trying to know the condition of the Ummah? What kind of Islam is it that people totally don't care slaughtering of millions of children, women, elders and support Tawagheet because of unconfirmed/misinterpreted Ahadith? Please note that I'm also known to others as Tableeghi. From the grassroots to the elders/leaders- I've observed TJ closely in my life. There's Alhamdulillaah no lack of sincerity in the work of Deen, but the problem is blindly believing and propagating random stuffs from random 'Ulama/old worker without verification and sticking to these.

Please try to realize the point. It's not TJ bashing topic or mean to spread fitnah. It's a natural reaction from a Muslim's mind. Help me get the answer.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 03:52
True Life wrote:
Addition: The problem by the way is not caused by the distortion of any laymen, but the impression that Arabs can not be criticised and have to be respected unconditionally has been caused by narrations found in classical Hadith works, like these:

أُحِبُّوا العَرَب لِثَلَاثٍ لِأَنِّي عَرَبِي وَالقُرآن عَرَبِي وَلِسَانُ أَهْلِ الجَنَّةِ عَرَبَي
حب العرب إيمان و بغضهم نفاق

Although most of these have been classed as extremely weak and by some even as fabricated, there exist dozens of narrations in the Kitabs with this notion. And even if these narrations would be accepted, one was to clearly differentiate between the Arabs living today... especially their leaders.


Exactly this....maashaAllaah.

Could you please quote some more relevant Ahadith (despite weakness in narration)?
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 04:23
It's obvious that they're misinformed and there is nothing in the Shariah protecting today's Arab leaders from criticism. I was just trying to help you answering the question why these brothers might not listen to you. You're obviously very passionate about this subject, so let's ponder over following narration in Saheeh Muslim:

إِذَا قَالَ الرَّجُلُ هَلَكَ النَّاسُ فَهُوَ أَهْلَكُهُمْ
Sayyiduna Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
"When a person says that people are ruined he is himself ruined."

Now, does this narration uplift the command of enjoining good and preventing evil or of speaking the truth? Of course not, it just sought to turn our attention towards a more humble approach. Not to think of ourself as the illuminated one among the underexposed masses.

You want to avoid any sort of debate or rejection, but at the same time get your point across and raise awareness. This is not too difficult among Tablighi circles, something along the lines of following examples could insha'Allah prove effective:

- "Whenever the news of riots or turmoils reached Maulana Yusuf (rahimullah) he used to break out weeping and say: "This all is happening because of my misdeeds." Today, our brothers, sisters and children are being tortured and there's noone left crying and repenting at nights."

- "In Hayatus Sahabah it's narrated that when the first person to be punished for stealing was brought to Rasulullah ﷺ the companions report, that when the thieves hand was cut off his ﷺ blessed face appeared discomforted like someone threw dust in it. Such was Rasulullah's ﷺ love and affection for the guilty criminals of this Ummah, so what about the innocent children and women of this Ummah being massacerd today? Does the news of it even cause frowns on our faces?"

- "How many in our locality are jeopardizing and losing their Iman for merely a few moments of pleasure and amusement, whereas in the same moment brothers and sisters elsewhere are safeguarding their Iman under the worst conditions... even if it costs their lives."

- "Once upon a time the system of justice in Islam forced a Muslim judge, of an Islamic court, under Islamic rule, to decide for a Kafir jew, against the Khalifah of the time. But today's rulers in disguise of Islam are not even willing to provide justice to their oppressed brethren."

Try to combine these now with [1] one or two heart-trembling "current Karguzaris" at a time and [2] the appeal of more effort as a solution, and insha'Allah 90% should listen to you. Do this when talking to people individually or in small groups, as outside of Bayans and collective activities most will not reproach you for bringing up current issues. This will of course not cause over night a change on a massive scale (compared to the hoped results of straight forward debates and convincing), but people in general will get more used and open to the topic at hand. There will always remain a few narrow-minded showing a total disinterest, but you won't have to bother about that minority.

Why am I assuming that you never tried this method? Well, I can't say it with certainty but it's just the feeling I get from your posts here and previous threads... Wallahu 'Alam...

Black Turban wrote:
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Brother, I rather prefere not to post all the Hadith because as a non-scholar I'm unable to provide the respective grading of the individual narrations. Dealing with Hadith is too delicate for me, so I leave it to more learned members...
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 04:37
Such threads always entails backbiting.

Beware! Lest you should eat your dead brother
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 06:36
Arfatzafar wrote:
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How, brother? I haven't revealed any particular person's identity.
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 07:02
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Let me assure you Hadhrat, I'm a different person in real life. You shouldn't be worried about my apparent aggressive manner.

Anyway, I don't want to start any mission to educate Tablighee workers. I just stay in touch of them (as good company), consult with and follow 'Ulama to get guidelines. During friendly conversations sometimes contemporary issues come up and this often ends up in "criticizing Arabs is forbidden" types of words. I can't stand that my fellow brothers have such an erroneous conception about Islam.

You can cite some scholarly materials if you have.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 07:34
Assalamu alaykum

It hurts to read and watch the persecution of muslims round the globe. But it also hurts to singularly target the whole arab community.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 08:48
(salam)

It has been narrated in the hadith Rasoolullah (saw) has mentioned : "....an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab...." When we have such an explicit statement I don't see any room for confusion.

But don't treat arabs differently, they are also humans like rest of us. Both good and bad people amongst them. Those who need do be criticized according to sharia, has to be criticized. But that doesn't mean we have to nitpick each Arabs either. Middle path guys.

As for people who believe Arabs are above law or something like that, try to mention the above hadith and enlighten them inshaAllah.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 09:38

True Life wrote:
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ahamed_sharif wrote:
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Are all Indians Bidaatees?

Are all Pakistanees Mushriks?

Why do these rules only apply to Arabs? There are good and bad in all nation and you criticise when you see a violation of Shariah.

  1. It doesn't mean you hate the person
  2. It doesn't mean that you targetted their ethnicity
  3. It doesn't mean that you are wiping all good which is in those people

Its a bit of an exaggerated stance on your behalf isn't it? If an Arab is bad, Arab is bad? Whats the big deal?

Every argument which you want to apply to Arabs equally apply to Pakistanees (for example). Is every Pakistani like Parvaiz Musharraf or agrees with him or has the same stance as him?

There is NO CHOSEN PEOPLE concept in Islam whatsoever it is "borrowed" from Judaism and Hindu'ism.

Arfatzafar wrote:
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Dear Brother,

First learn what backbiting means!

It is Sunnah to refer to a group of people rather then individuals when pointing out fault for example I can say that people of such and such part of India have this custom which is against Islam. I have neither claimed that every person in that part has this nor have I pointed out a specific person.

This isn't backbiting.

I can provide you absolute evidence where Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) talked about "such and such people" but I know that you will neither respond nor acknowledge and simply go away.

If you want to make accusations then be man enough to discuss matters to their conclusion. I could be wrong and everybody else could be wrong so correct us don't pass remarks and then go away...

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 10:09
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backbiting of a group isnt a sin?

Plz carry on.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 10:11
Wa alaikumussalam.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 10:23
We know that backbiting of any Muslim is haram.

But- are we allowed to commit backbiting of muslimin?

Can any knowledgeable person reply with daleel? Plz.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 10:27
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Only Salafis are allowed to ask for dalil!
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2014 10:30

Arfatzafar wrote:
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Arfatzafar wrote:
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Brother, learn to understand issues before commenting. If you don't understand don't make sweeping statements.

If you misunderstand then learn to apologise and admit your errors. If I am wrong point it out and (you know) that I have no issues with admitting and apologising.

afriki_haqq wrote:
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No this brother can also ask for Daleel when it suits him.  When you ask him for his Daleel he is nowhere to be found.

ahamed_sharif wrote:
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And who and where has someone claimed that ALL ARABS are bad? The issue here is criticism when laws of Shariah are being violated and in that context there is no difference between a South Indian Muslim and an Arab Muslim.

An Arab Muslim is NOT automatically superior to a South Indian Muslim simply on account of their race/ethnicity.

  1. There is no evidence for this in the Qur'aan
  2. There is no evidence for this in Hadeeth
  3. There is no evidence for this in Fiqh

We are not Jews or Hindus, we are Muslims.

The best straws you could possibly clutch at is "Kuf'u" in the Hanafi Madhab. Throughout Islamic history there were many politically inspired Arab vs Ajam movements, conspiracies etc which were fully exploited by Non-Muslims.

In our times Moazzam Begg  in his book Enemy Combatant: The Terrifying True Story of a Briton in Guantanamo writes that Saudee prisioners in Guantanamo Bay wanted special cells and be held away from "others" because they were Saudees. Yes Saudees actually asked for special treatments in Guantanamo Bay for being Saudees!

This is HOW SICK this Arab thing has become!



 

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