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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 16:24

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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nor I want to understand.
Now please write their names. It's too much on this forum.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 17:00

Arfatzafar wrote:

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No idea what you are talking about, at all!

The purpose of your thread is not to have "Muslim vs Muslim" debates and now look at your aggression towards me, unless I have done something to have left Islam (Astaghfirullah) isn't this a fine example from yourself how not to act on what you preach? :P

Even if I am disrespectful towards Deobandi Akabir (which I am factually not but in your eyes 100% guilty) then has that made me leave Islam in your eyes that I don't even deserve the courtesy to be treated as a "Muslim" which you seem to be suggesting, here?

You have made my point in a spectacular manner so Jazakallahu Khayran

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 18:59

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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In which issues we are doing ''hazrat worshipping''?

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 19:50

This thread seems to be true to it's name : Muslim vs Muslim.

If we take MS as a mini Alame Islam...this is what is happening in the bigger Alam e Islam.....Ya Allah !

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 21:41

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I shall be glad to answer your queries in detail once you have pointed out as to where I have accused "we (you + others, whoever they are)" of anything?

Or could it be that for the 2nd time in a a space of 2-3 exchanges you have misunderstood?

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 28th May 2014 02:43

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In which issues DEOBANDIS are involved in KIBAR WORSHIPPING OR HAZRAT WORSHIPPING?

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 28th May 2014 08:25

This thread is going off topic, and derailing. Please stick to the topic it was intended. To be honest after reading some posts I have lost sight of the purpose of this thread.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 29th May 2014 18:15

Some years ago a famous poet and writer of Bollywood would sell pens on T.V. (in an advertisement).

He would be displayed walking here and there. Back ground scene would be changed every second and he'd keep on saying:

'' Where is life there are dreams.
Where are dreams there are destinations
Where are destinations there is space
where is space there are ways
where are ways there are difficulties
where are difficulties there is courage
where is courage there is confidence''

Then he'd place his right hand on the pen which would be peeping out of the pocket - left to his chest -in sherwani.
'' Because I've .........'' he'd continue with a smile.
And a background voice would bulldoze on our minds ''....... is the another name of confidence''

This is the way how companies sell their product through famous personalities to increase the sell and production of their product.

Now a days every sect is selling its ideology through different ways- using internet, T.V, Mobile, printed materials. Their salesmen (televengalsits) are selling their product (ideology) to the consumers (common Muslims) who are easily impressed by the eloquence and pretentious modes operandi of the salesmen and the way of presentation of the products.

Since Ulama of traditional madaris don't allow the common men to delve into Quran and Hadis themselves and They always emphasise on adab of shariah, so ask them to understand Quran and Hadis deeply under the supervision of Ulama to keep the check and balance.

''wa yudhillubihi kaseeran wa yahdibihi kaseera'' instruct the ulama to make the common men study Islamic scriptures through proper channel and keep them on right path perseverely.

But these televengalsits allow them to become freelance scholars and encourage them to study the Islamic literature available on internet. This call impresses them and they feel rejoicing the freedom abundantly. It abet them to delve into noble scriptures without required qualifications and then they don't feel hesitation even deriving the rulings.

As a result their sharp tongues begin to speak arrogance. All the Muslims except their group are given different titles such as- kafir, mushrik, bidati at a slight hint of irregularity .

Following the Islam as a true Muslim is becoming harder and harder for the humble and sincere Muslims.
Genuine ulama are being made a laughing stock. Ulama are doing their job though, but the souls who like to break the bonds of following pristine tradition of sequaciousness, are fleeing away physically or mentally.
And ulama are watching worriedly.
It's the overt sign of doomsday.

One of My elders say that these people who leave the way of taqleed may refuse to do the taqleed of Hazrat Isa a.s. Because when he'll implement the undisputed and pure teachings of Islam which'd been taught by RasulAllah s.a.w if go against their sectarian ideology they'll revolt against Hazrat Isa a.s. by saying that we've Quran and Hadis to follow, we won't do your taqleed.

If this kashf of a buzurg is believed which Hazrat Mujaddid Alif Thani rh.a mentioned in his maktubat that fiqh of Hazrat Isa a.s. will (coincidently) be close to the fiqh hanafi. Kashf isn't a shara'i dalil though, but consent of Hazrat Mujaddid Alif Thani rh.a can't be taken lightly. It's totally depend on the individual whether to accept it or not.

At last, one more thing I'd like to add. Hazrat Molana Hanif Luharvi HA in one of his lectures said,'' Who do you take the ilm from, is very important issue because the shaykh who teaches you noor of his Taqwa is also transmitted to you with his words.''

May Allah سبحانه وتعالى keep us steadfast. Ameen

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 29th May 2014 21:01

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It's a metaphor.

When mureeds reject MAJOR proof and follow their Shaykh and say that their Shaykh can't be wrong, then that is a blatant act of rejecting the Haq, and accepting the nafs. Therefore called Shaykh worship.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2014 02:42

''A sad phenomenon of our times is to casually declare anyone you disagree with - in matters of religion - as kafir, grave worshipper, deviant, innovator, etc... There seems to be so much hate, anger and accusation all over the internet on YouTube, forums, and social media. Some think that they are the only saved group, and for them it's 'either my way or the highway.'

In such a climate, there is a real need to bring about some perspective to the differences within our Umma; and to spread love, harmony, peace and unity amongst Muslims.''

- Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2014 05:11

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1: It's an ambiguous reply

2: If you've concrete proofs against some people then it's an individual case, and it may be ascribed to SOME DEOBANDEES.

3: Plz illustrate with examples.

4: 'Some' deobandees and 'Deobandees' are two different terms.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2014 05:48

Deoband is a phenomena coloured by the acts of its Akabir,not a sect.What is calked 'Shaikh worship' or 'Hazrat worship' is not the ideology of deoband,,,,yes...they do respect their mashaikh and teachers a lot,but who can dispute it ?

When some people tried to create misunderstandings between Shaikh Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi ra and his Shaikh Haji Imdad ullah mujahid Makki ra about 'Faisla haft masala'....the reply of Shaikh Gangohi ra is a classical example of 'true' Deobandi thought process.He said : "We became mureeds of Haji sahib ra to learn taqwa/ehsan/Ikhlas from him....not ILM...ILM is something he should be consulting us where needed".

When a syed Ahmad Shaheed ra got married,one day he came slightly late for Fajr prayer,his mureed Ml Abdul Hayye ra,after Jamat openly said,while still sitting on musalla,in front of every one 'what has happened to people,after getting married they become so negligent to forget the importance of takbire tahrima ?'...Syed sahib bowed his head and said 'it will never happen again '.

The same Syed sahib,once got angry,unjustifiably so, on one of his cooks...and cursed him.Ml Abdul Hayye reminded him that he crossed the limits in that case.Syed sahib ra immediately apologised and praised his mureed saying 'Ml please keep reminding me if/when I cross the limits of sharia'...,listening to that Ml Abdul Hayye innocently replied 'Hazrat,if such things keep happening,Abdul Hayye will not remain with you to remind'

This is the spirit of 'true' deobandiat.

Now those people who criticise deoband by seeing one or two acts against this spirit of deoband....should criticise the persons involved rather than deoband itself.

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2014 07:25

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But maybe whats batil as per you is merely the Haqq as per the mureeds thats why they follow their sheikh. In that case, would you still call it sheikh worshiping?
What I want to say, what may be sheikh worshiping as per you, can be just following the haqq as per others.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2014 08:05

Please don't take it out of context. Maybe I should have been a lot more clearer.

The terminology is used on individual's and groups of people who won't stand up for the truth, won't defend the Sunnah, rather back their Shaykh.

For those who don't believe in Allah, the atheist, Allah says about then that they claim there is no God, then Allah tells us that they are mistaken, because their God is their desires since they are only following their Nafs. Since they are following their nafs, they are committing shirk. Similarly, those who aren't following Islam but are following their Shaykh, they are indirectly worshiping their Shaykh.

No one is accusing Deoband as a whole, otherwise we'd be talking ill of millions of innocent Muslims.

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2014 11:15

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السلام عليكم

Brother,

I'm not denying that Shirk is being committed by many Mureeds of Shaykhs. But observing some attitudes no one should conclude that X, Y, Z are following Shaykh instead of Islam. They follow their Shaykh for the sake of Islam. When Shaykh suggests anything, they take it as divine rule. Because they are laymen and don't have capability to verify. There is only one way of verification which is "to ask other 'Ulama", but they trust Shaykh so much that this thought never appears in mind.

Jaahil Madhkhalis attack Muqallids saying the same thing- they follow Imam instead of Allaah سبحانه وتعالى and Rasool (saw)

. We, Muqallids know what's wrong in that slander. Now compare this with some Mureeds who are attached to their Shaykh's opinions strongly. Indeed their strong reliance on Shaykh make them believe that what he states is the strongest opinion or most suitable for them. This is why they reject other opinions (even if those are stronger).

However all kinds of extremism and apparent "Hazrat worshipping" stem from lack of 'ilm. According to my observation, most of the workers of Tableegh, Mureeds of different Shuyyookh and the whole Madhkhali/Ahle Hadith community (except their dumb scholars) are affected by this problem. Due to lack of 'ilm (laymen) Tablighees and Mureeds don't recognise other works of Deen and 'Ulama, Madhkhalis don't recognise real Salaf.

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